Titania and the other Neverborn Masters fluff speculation (Spoilers from TTB Nythera)

[D_acolyte]

7 hours ago, Draco Aleksander said:

Haven't read any of the fluff related to Titania yes, but my literary background makes me want to throw something at the wall to see if it sticks.

Has there been mention of an Oberon yet? Titania, Queen of the Fae's husband goes by that name in the most commonly available sources (Shakespeare being the most readily available), so it would be safe to assume that he can't be far behind. He's also a bit of a trickster, and plays games with those around him (both mortal and fae), that they often don't even realize are going on.

So, is there any chance a certain masked master who likes to control and scheme might be Oberon under a different guise? As I said, I'm just spit-balling, but it's a fun line of thought.

She tried to court the Grave Spirit. So no Oberon to my knowledge.

[Vorschlag]

29 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

They don't have to be, nor do I want them to be, as uniform as the Nephilim.

Yes it will be slightly odd that Changelings are not Fae... 
In fact mimics in general... mayhaps an alliance of sorts.

[santaclaws01]

9 hours ago, -Loki- said:

I see no reason we can't have badass faerie warriors in wooden armour with huge spears as combat minions, and weird flying glowing butts as Titanias Totems or scheme runners, and whatever else they come up with the the Fae. There's lots of inspiration to draw from when designing Fae units. They don't have to be, nor do I want them to be, as uniform as the Nephilim.

It's likely that the Autumn Knight has some connection to Titania, though she's associated with the Summer Court. It's possible with the whole Grave Spirit thing she now represents something closer to the Winter or Autumn courts considering the Summer Court is more associated with benevolence.

[Da Git]

9 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

It's likely that the Autumn Knight has some connection to Titania, though she's associated with the Summer Court. It's possible with the whole Grave Spirit thing she now represents something closer to the Winter or Autumn courts considering the Summer Court is more associated with benevolence.

ooh, that sounds rather interesting... where does this come from?

[santaclaws01]

Just now, Da Git said:

ooh, that sounds rather interesting... where does this come from?

The stuff with the Courts is just fae mythology. Given that there's an Autumn Knight it's not unlikely that there will be more of a connection with fae myths than just Titania's name.

[D_acolyte]

2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

It's likely that the Autumn Knight has some connection to Titania, though she's associated with the Summer Court.

Someone read to much Dresden and take it as true. Titania was made a queen of the fae by William Shakespeare in Midsummer Night Dream just like in Romeo and Juliete he sited the position of consort of Oberon to Mab, nice fact Mab was a Goddess in Celtic myths. The association because of Shakespeare became the pop cultural references for them in the modern day, this is not how it is in the old myths. Traditionally the role of Fae Queen is a nameless.

This is also one of my biggest issues with Dresden, it is too pop culture base. Most of my other issues is with the characters.

[santaclaws01]

3 minutes ago, D_acolyte said:

Someone read to much Dresden and take it as true. Titania was made a queen of the fae by William Shakespeare in Midsummer Night Dream just like in Romeo and Juliete he sited the position of consort of Oberon to Mab, nice fact Mab was a Goddess in Celtic myths. The association because of Shakespeare became the pop cultural references for them in the modern day, this is not how it is in the old myths. Traditionally the role of Fae Queen is a nameless.

This is also one of my biggest issues with Dresden, it is too pop culture base. Most of my other issues is with the characters.

Never read Dresden. The association with Titania and the Summer Court goes beyond that.

[D_acolyte]

1 minute ago, santaclaws01 said:

Never read Dresden. The association with Titania and the Summer Court goes beyond that.

Please provide a source because everything I have researched and read has the queen be nameless and I would love to find out more.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Which culture's fae traditons? I'm pretty well versed in folklore and traditions and outside of Jim Butcher's novels I've never run into any mention of a summer or winter court of fae. There are certainly traditions of Seelie and Unseelie, but that isn't a reference to the good vs evil duality most contemporary westerners like to imagine. In almost all folklore up until the Victorian age ALL fae were essentially insanely dangerous and alien to humankind. Even the relatively minor household sprites could easily turn malevolent and deadly if they were offended, and their supposed value systems were completely alien to humans so one could offed them simply by doing something that would only be polite to a fellow human.

Additionally there is no central clearing house of fae lore. Fae traditions were almost all passed down through oral traditions and the tales can overlap, morph, and contradict each other. So if there is some tradition of courts of fae based on seasons I'd be very interested to know the culture associated with it as I've never come across it before.

[lusciousmccabe]

Which culture even has fae traditions? Isn't it like a modern catch-all for any sort of supernatural creature appearing in European folklore from any country or time period?

 

[MetaphoricDragn]

If there is a Autumn Knight, does that also mean there is a Winter Soldier?

[Draco Aleksander]

19 hours ago, D_acolyte said:

She tried to court the Grave Spirit. So no Oberon to my knowledge.

I'll start by saying I'm basing this off of Shakespearean lore instead of the longer term cultural tales some others are talking about, in no small part due to the fact that Titania was used and not Mab or another similar goddess.

If we work with the connection to "A Midsummer Nights Dream", then the play version of Titania also tried to seduce someone not her husband, the mechanical-turned-ass named Bottom. I don't think this Titania trying to court the Grave Spirit denies the eventual existence of an Oberon in Malifaux. Actually, the fact that there's been no mention lets me make assumptions of my own for the time being, and that's almost a victory in and of itself. We shall see what part Lucius has to play in the future, but I have my hopes.

[lusciousmccabe]

I think it's a cool idea, but I wouldn't read too deeply into it since Wyrd tend to cherry-pick their lore with varying levels of connection to the original. 

[Da Git]

ooh! Lucius as Oberon! That's a really cool idea there @Draco Aleksander.  Although I'm a bit torn between my desire to see this happen (especially as the mimics kinda have a bit of Fae vibe anyways (Changlings are Fae!) and my desire for them to never reveal who & what Lucius really is (a more likely preposition really, I think they're having too much fun writing stories about him and keeping us guessing!).

Also Lucius is a jerk enough to enchant his wife to fall for a half cow half mechanic (the horror!) hybrid!

There doesn't really appear to be one solid root origin of Fae mythology from what I can tell.  In a lot of the original stuff the queen was nameless, and then Good ol' Billy Shaker invited Titania who has appeared a truck-ton in modern pop-culture.  Here's some interesting linked I found last night, I'd love for others to post some more with other/additional info!

Court system & Fae in general:  These ones have lots of other links too.  Not sure if it comes from original or pop culture or even from a RPG or some such!.  If someone could help out with that that would be great!

https://arshae.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/on-the-fae-court-system-or-which-fae-is-which/ 

http://faeriepedia.weebly.com/8902bullthe-faerie-courtsbull8902.html

Titania:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titania  This one is especially good for the other references.

[MetaphoricDragn]

15 hours ago, Draco Aleksander said:

If we work with the connection to "A Midsummer Nights Dream", then the play version of Titania also tried to seduce someone not her husband, the mechanical-turned-ass named Bottom. 

So Titania is after the Hodgepodge Emissary's ride then?  giggity

[Draco Aleksander]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:38 AM, lusciousmccabe said:

I think it's a cool idea, but I wouldn't read too deeply into it since Wyrd tend to cherry-pick their lore with varying levels of connection to the original. 

Oh, absolutely. I have no illusions that I'm doing anything but theorycrafting; I'm just connecting interesting looking dots.

@Da Git, I'll give these links a more in-depth look later, but I always approach any discussion of folklore with a healthy amount of salt due to long-term pollution of the folktales by centuries/millennia of "outside influence" (cross-cultural pollination, changes to/introduction of new religions, overt historical retconning, etc). Plus, you were right to mention that other RPGs have touched these subjects as well. I'm in the middle of reading the newest Shadowrun sourcebook (Howling Shadows), and actually just got to the section on the Seelie and Unseelie courts this morning. It's funny how we keep reinterpreting the same things again and again.

[Math Mathonwy]

On ‎9‎.‎6‎.‎2016 at 6:07 PM, Fetid Strumpet said:

Which culture's fae traditons? I'm pretty well versed in folklore and traditions and outside of Jim Butcher's novels I've never run into any mention of a summer or winter court of fae.

Huh? Really? There's Summer and Winter Courts in White Wolf's Changeling: the Dreaming, which predates Dresden Files by a good five years or so. And I would be really surprised if that was the primary source for the Summer/Winter divide.

But of course the summer/winter divide isn't all that hard to come up with from the light/dark divide used in the Scandinavian myth and kinda mirroring the seelie/unseelie divide.