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izikial

how i would fix lucius

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17 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I don't see how the upgrade card would be any cheaper if it is made available as widely as it should be, that is, in the crewbox, print on demand, some deck, and online.

The difference in cost is all of the existing Lucius crew boxes which would have the wrong card, and the effort the consumer would have to go to to replace that card.

I suppose it's otherwise the difference between a tax rebate and a tax refund--you can still play Lucius without the balancing upgrade card, but you'll be happier when you have it.  :) 

That, and like Gnomezilla said, naming the upgrade card Errata would be spectacular.  :D

 

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19 minutes ago, solkan said:

The difference in cost is all of the existing Lucius crew boxes which would have the wrong card, and the effort the consumer would have to go to to replace that card.

As opposed to the cost and difficulty of getting the upgrade?

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39 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

As opposed to the cost and difficulty of getting the upgrade?

It's my fault for using cost in a euphamistic manner.

The results of issuing an errata to the card:

1.  Existing boxes that now have an invalid card.

2.  Players not able to play Lucius until they get new cards.

3.  The effort required to distribute the new cards.

The results of issuing an upgrade card:

1.  The effort required to distribute the new cards.

 

Both fix the problem, the upgrade card has less negative points to it.  Because the worst case scenario for a player who doesn't have the upgrade card is just playing Lucius as he is.  The worst case scenario for not having the errata card is not being able to play Lucius at all.

 

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13 minutes ago, solkan said:

The worst case scenario for not having the errata card is not being able to play Lucius at all.

Some might call it the best case scenario at this point... (joking)

Couldn't they just get the errata card online like all other errata cards?

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1 hour ago, Gnomezilla said:

Who else but Lucius ought to have an upgrade or an ability actually named Errata? :P Just imagine the fun* we could have during FAQ discussions!

*disclaimer: fun received may vary in size, color, or quality from fun depicted on the packaging

Lol, good one.
Like Myrra said: Couldn't they just get the errata card online like all other errata cards?

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As much as I would love some changes I don't think much will happen, they had last book were they could have upgrade patched Lucius and didnt, this makes me think they are either happy with wear he is, or they want to do a change and cant figure out how, the former is more likely. It is a shame, you hear about all these people who play 1 master at a tornie and do great, and sadly I cant ever see that happening with lucius

 

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5 hours ago, izikial said:

As much as I would love some changes I don't think much will happen, they had last book were they could have upgrade patched Lucius and didnt, this makes me think they are either happy with wear he is, or they want to do a change and cant figure out how, the former is more likely. It is a shame, you hear about all these people who play 1 master at a tornie and do great, and sadly I cant ever see that happening with lucius

 

maybe if we keep this thread going it may draw attention of the game developers? It would be nice to hear their thoughts on lucius. I remember hearing Justin on a podcast saying that not all masters were created equal. maybe lucius is meant to be at the bottom of the power curve, but he can be very frustrating to use. my early games with him almost made me put the master schemer in my minis case permanently. It was like I was trying to fight against Lucius and my opponent. he is hard work sometimes without a lot a reward. surely that is not what they intended.

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AFAIK, from how the open beta etc. was talked about, there was never an intention to make a master worse, it just happens because things aren't perfectly balanced. IMHO it's pretty clear that wyrd tries to patch masters that aren't working like they're supposed to, like tara's numerous weird patches; mei feng having quite a few new pieces; guild getting better minions for lucius to take advantage of, neverborn getting a mimic minion (also pretty clearly useful for him), etc.

A lot more masters on the low end of the curve have seen a substantial influx of models than on the high end. There are also the emissaries, which tend to give a more substantial boost to weak masters while changing styles on stronger ones.

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Yeah, the Emissaries can be a good power boost to the lower end Masters. They also allow some immersion as they can be quite thematic :P

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Come on guys, whe should rescue or lovely Secretary! although he will probably kill us to accomplish his goals...but that´s why we love him!

I don´t like the need of an Emissary in order to have a "ok" Master. I would prefer upgrades or errata and talking about Guards/Rifleman Im ok having Guards in the Starter.

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10 hours ago, Druso said:

Come on guys, whe should rescue or lovely Secretary! although he will probably kill us to accomplish his goals...but that´s why we love him!

I don´t like the need of an Emissary in order to have a "ok" Master. I would prefer upgrades or errata and talking about Guards/Rifleman Im ok having Guards in the Starter.

Particularly an emissary for a master who can't use most if his abilities on it.

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1 hour ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Particularly an emissary for a master who can't use most if his abilities on it.

The emmissary's card probably hasn't been printed so maybe you could fit in a line like "This model counts as a minion for friendly master's abilities" before they go for printing. It could either be a separate ability with a catchy name or baked into one of the others already on the card.  

 

Technicalities

"This model counts as a minion for friendly master's abilities"

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26 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

The emmissary's card probably hasn't been printed so maybe you could fit in a line like "This model counts as a minion for friendly master's abilities" before they go for printing. It could either be a separate ability with a catchy name or baked into one of the others already on the card.  

 

Technicalities

"This model counts as a minion for friendly master's abilities"

I like that idea, I think put I on lucius' emissary upgrade to prevent unwanted future issues and it then applies to both emissaries

its no different in my eyes than Hoff and Ramos gaining construct and collodi gaining puppet

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On 4/27/2016 at 2:07 AM, Ludvig said:

"This model counts as a minion for friendly master's abilities"

Man, wish something like that had happened. That'd go a really long way towards making it run better than being an awkward choice between more minions and better minions.

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possible upgrade/eratta options that might help

Aura to give all guardsmen/mimics within 3" regen +1 - diabolical servitude.
Aura that allows Lucius to draw cards whenever and minion (friendly or otherwise) dies within a 3" - callous capitalist  
Reduce devils deal to 2 damage but only allow it to target minions, mimics and guardsmen.
Allow his abilities to target minions and guardsmen, remove the non-austringer thing but only allow it to target each model once per turn.
capacity to hand out or gain either chatty or don't mind me - political misdirection
Capacity to allow mimic or guardsmen to deploy from the shadows - one step ahead
Sacrifice a minion, guardsmen or mimic, discard your hand and redraw that many cards -expendable resources.

 

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Oh and the introduction of some mimic minions that match up to the assassins and bodyguards he had accompany him to that ball in the fluff.

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Aura 3 is too small. Ramos, Nico and Ironsides have 6" auras that buff stuff so I don't see why the fix to Lucius should keep him gimped. His one thing that he has going is the amazing ranges on issue command and commanding precense (excuse the spelling on that last one, can't english today).

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1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Aura 3 is too small. Ramos, Nico and Ironsides have 6" auras that buff stuff so I don't see why the fix to Lucius should keep him gimped. His one thing that he has going is the amazing ranges on issue command and commanding precense (excuse the spelling on that last one, can't english today).

Which in and of itself is usually gimped by the fact that his crew has to bubble up to make use of their buffing auras. :(

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1 hour ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Which in and of itself is usually gimped by the fact that his crew has to bubble up to make use of their buffing auras. :(

The guardsman theme is a massive trap. Take a warden or two and then go for models that are actually useful is my advice. Pathfinders and Austringers are good but both work independently of Dashel. A single rifleman can sometimes work well with a pathfinder since pathfinders tend to go early. Most of the other guardsman models will generally want to activate after any riflemen so don't synergise with them. The neverborn models aren't as aura-dependent in my experience (but that experience is a lot more limited than my guild experience).

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What isn't a trap for Lucius? :)

I think he can make a better crew thanks to stronger independent minions and enforcer/henchmen which synergise with one another. The problem is said crew would then usually be better if you dropped Lucius for the Dreamer or Collodi (or even Lynch or Lilith some times).

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I think they need to start picking a direction and going for it, most emissary upgrades buffed 1 or 2 of the masters play styles, if you said to me what dose Lucius need? I would not Say a higher damage melee attack (something that could have been done just as easy by giving him crit)

they offerd him support by giving him another unsupported play style, I would guess the idea was to give an attack for changelings /dopples (sore subject) to copy for high damage but that's not a strong idea. If his emissary insted said gain a suit to issue command or frendlies in 6 auto pass horror duels, that would have improved an existing angle

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5 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Aura 3 is too small. Ramos, Nico and Ironsides have 6" auras that buff stuff so I don't see why the fix to Lucius should keep him gimped.

Good point, I didn't have a book with me to compare aura ranges at the time and didn't want to come off as having too strong a bias toward the funny man in period costume...

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9 hours ago, izikial said:

I think they need to start picking a direction and going for it, most emissary upgrades buffed 1 or 2 of the masters play styles, if you said to me what dose Lucius need? I would not Say a higher damage melee attack (something that could have been done just as easy by giving him crit)

they offerd him support by giving him another unsupported play style, I would guess the idea was to give an attack for changelings /dopples (sore subject) to copy for high damage but that's not a strong idea. If his emissary insted said gain a suit to issue command or frendlies in 6 auto pass horror duels, that would have improved an existing angle

Yeah... IDK. Healing is nice and summoning minions works well for him (so, pretty sure I wouldn't take it on the Brutal) but I'm really not getting the random patch of a situational attack that does 1 more damage or 2 on a trigger. Certainly seems like another minion buff, a spell buff, or calling the big guy a minion (like others got their associated keywords) would have done the trick better.

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