Pandora help.

[El_Commi]

Hey Folks!

I'm reletively new to Malifaux, I picked up the starter in the Summer and have played it quite a lot with my partner. Shes in the process of fixing up a Lady J. Crew box.

I have Jacob Lynch (unassembled) and Pandora, (Unpainted).

There's a local tournament due in June, Im not normally one for Tournaments but figured why not since I'll be at the convvention anyway!

So the question is this, will I have enough models to make a decent Pandora crew. It doesn't need to be WAAC, just something fun and (reletively) easy to play. If not.. what should I invest in to bring it up to scratch without breaking the bank?

Sorry if this has been asked already!

Gerard

[Joel]

You can make a decent Pandora crew out of her own crew box with the illuminated from the dark debts to boost the points. 

However, I would invest in the primordial magic totem and the doppelgänger - two cheap purchases that are brilliant with many neverborn masters in nearly all scheme pools, and especially good for Pandora 

[vulky]

Pandora (Box, Aetheric Connection, Fears) - 4ss + 7ss cache

Primordial Magic - 2ss

Candy (Fears, maybe Best Behavior) - 11ss

3x Illuminated - 21ss

Baby Kade (Depression) - 8ss

----------

Only requires 1 new model, the Primordial Magic. You can use the Poltergeist but it's just worse.

If you buy a Doppleganger you can substitute the Baby Kade with it.

Candy and Pandora can hold a zone while the rest run schemes (Turf War, Squatter's Rights).

They can hunt effectively, crew is resilient (all are Terrifying or Manipulative) (Reckoning).

You have an under average amount so the hardest strat may be Reconnoitier, but you can just hunt some models and then hold a couple quadrants.

[El_Commi]

That is excellent!

I really like the Doppleganger, so it was on my "to get" list anyway. Primordial magic doesn't do much for me, but if it works. I guess that'll do!

This is what I love about Malifaux; the Crew boxes give you pretty much everything you need, and to cross over into another crew is really inexpensive. It's not like WFB where starting a new army is £300+

Now to post in the Guild Forums for advice for my partner!

[Joel]

Crew boxes are a good starting point, and they certainly ease entry into the game price-wise. As you get used to things, don't be afraid to expand into new things and mix things up though

[D_acolyte]

I have really liked her with Aether Connection, On Wings of Darkness and The Box Opens. I find that when she rarely dies it is because she gets surrounded and can not push away which On Wings of Darkness helps to prevent.

[Artiee]

Primordial magic model really is displeasing.   But what it provides over shadows the look.   A extra card to draw during the draw step, A mobile scheme marker, a cast to make another model insignificant.

[El_Commi]

I admit I go for modles more for their look than play style. It's disappointing to know Sorrows/Poltergeist dont get used much lol.

I've made contact with the local Wyrd group and hoping to get a few practise games in before the tournament in June.

Yesteday was spent assembling the Jacob Box, today has been spent priming everything.
The rest of the day will be deciding on a colour scheme and eyeing up scheme markers and convincing my partner that its only two small purchases...

[Joel]

Sorrows will be coming back in gaining grounds 2016 - they excel in the new schemes - and when people catch onto that you'll see more of them.  As for the poltergeist - it has its place now and again 

[El_Commi]

My local tourny is using Gaining Grounds I think.

I'll need to read it before I go, I've never done a tourny so its all new to me!

I'm mostly interestedi n those poker chips..

[Sybarite]

Does flight (from wings of darkness) work with pushes?

[AgentRock]

On 3/28/2016 at 11:39 AM, Joel said:

Sorrows will be coming back in gaining grounds 2016 - they excel in the new schemes - and when people catch onto that you'll see more of them.  As for the poltergeist - it has its place now and again 

To paraphrase Daleks...."Elaborate! ELABORATE!"

[Kirby]

On 3/29/2016 at 3:47 AM, Sybarite said:

Does flight (from wings of darkness) work with pushes?

No.  Flight specifies that it ignores terrain and intervening models during movement.  Pushes specify that they are not movement as far as the "Movement" ruleset is concerned.  Yes, the model is physically in a new location on the board, but it is not a Move.

To expand on that a little, look at the language of Incorporeal which specifies move or push.

[thebarbalag]

On Wings of Darkness is still a nice buy on Pandora, because she is a little slow barring her pushes, and she is usually going to have a walk a few time in the game, so the less impeded she is, the better, plus the card draw is killer.

[El_Commi]

That went over my head

 

 

[Kirby]

23 minutes ago, El_Commi said:

That went over my head

We were discussing D_Acolyte's earlier statement:

On 3/28/2016 at 10:12 AM, D_acolyte said:

I have really liked her with Aether Connection, On Wings of Darkness and The Box Opens. I find that when she rarely dies it is because she gets surrounded and can not push away which On Wings of Darkness helps to prevent.

On Wings of Darkness is an upgrade that gives a Neverborn Master the Flight ability.  This lets a model ignore terrain and intervening models during movement.  However, as noted earlier, pushes are not movement as far as that is concerned.  If she is surrounded and has the Flight upgrade, she needs to spend a Wk action or be Lured to get out.  She cannot be Pushed out.  This is important because her Fading Memory allows her to push 4" if she succeeds on an opposed Wp duel.  Normally that allows her to push away if the opponent misses an attack with her, but if she is surrounded she cannot push through other models even with Flight.

[Joel]

If surrounded, Pandora has one simple method of getting out.

kill stuff

she's rather good at it

sorrows: basically these guys are perfect for setting up convict labour bluffing, if it is a bluff, on turn 1 you walk a model to a position where their back edge is 8" in from of the sorrow - on its activation, the sorrow used is movement trick to place on the far side of it - gaining another couple of inches and drops a scheme marker in a scoring position. You do this while doing what you do with these models on turn 1 anyway.

poltergeist: is a great anti-scheme runner who can back up anyone who forces multiple wp duels in an area - coppelius and Nekima for example. Paralysing 4+ enemy models wins you games.

[D_acolyte]

6 hours ago, Kirby said:

We were discussing D_Acolyte's earlier statement:

On Wings of Darkness is an upgrade that gives a Neverborn Master the Flight ability.  This lets a model ignore terrain and intervening models during movement.  However, as noted earlier, pushes are not movement as far as that is concerned.  If she is surrounded and has the Flight upgrade, she needs to spend a Wk action or be Lured to get out.  She cannot be Pushed out.  This is important because her Fading Memory allows her to push 4" if she succeeds on an opposed Wp duel.  Normally that allows her to push away if the opponent misses an attack with her, but if she is surrounded she cannot push through other models even with Flight.

Is that in the FAQ? If so I did not see it, did a quick search on flight, so I will now explain my logic.

So flight is "This model is immune to falling damage and may ignore any terrain or models while moving." This does not state movement but rather moving.

Push on page 46: "A push is an effect that moves a model in a straight line." Further more it states that it does not ignore traits or abilities for this move. Other models are impassable for a push unless they have incorporeal but flight lets you chose to ignore them as a push is a move and card overrides rule book.

A model that is pushed is moving and there for can benefit from flight.

[solkan]

I'm going point out one important word in Incorporeal.

Quote

Incorporeal: This model ignores, and is ignored by, other models and terrain during any movement or push. Reduce all damage this model suffers from Sh and Ml Attack Actions by half.

vs. Flight:

Quote

Flight: This model is immune to falling damage and may ignore any terrain or models while moving.

and then the second paragraph of Pushes:

Quote

A push is not a normal move, and it does not count as a "move" for rules purposes. Pushes are not affected by severe terrain.

When you push a model, it is not "moving" so flight does not apply.

[Kirby]

Ninja'd. 

[D_acolyte]

19 minutes ago, solkan said:

I'm going point out one important word in Incorporeal.

vs. Flight:

and then the second paragraph of Pushes:

When you push a model, it is not "moving" so flight does not apply.

I am going to ask this in the rules forum because push states it is a move, so you are saying that even though it is a move it is not considered moving. That is strange.

The reason why incorporeal states movement and pushing is because it is specifically calling out movement not just a move and is dealing with an interaction in to direction.

[Kirby]

We are not saying that even though the model is physically in a new location it is not a move.  The rules are.  Like you said, put it in the rules section, I know this has come up several times in the subforums.

[D_acolyte]

17 minutes ago, Kirby said:

We are not saying that even though the model is physically in a new location it is not a move.  The rules are.  Like you said, put it in the rules section, I know this has come up several times in the subforums.

If it has come up several times in the sub forum and has an affect on multiple factions which this does, than it should also be posted in the question section of the forum.

The first line of the push section states that it moves, p46. On that same page further in that same section when covering it in relation to other models it states you are moving. This makes it sound to me like a push is moving.

[Kirby]

I copied Solkan's reply and added some wording of my own to your post over on the Rules forum.  Any further discussion will be had over there.  This thread can go back to Pandora tactica.

Link to rules discussion:

 

[D_acolyte]

Even with flight not working with pushes it could still be useful with Pandora, if for nothing else there are times when you just want to cut and run.

It would go, go to move out of the black blood death circle, defend vs a disengaging strike, move out of the black blood death circle, and then run away. Alternatively if you have a black blood shaman you could give her black blood.