new player thinking of fraction

[McLovinMcCheese]

im new to the game iv been looking through the ranges and some, guides online and want to get in to the game, i like the ten thunders faction but i have a problem im finding it difficult to find advice on the models i have interest in i want to play ten thunders because i like samurai, but are the samurai any good and what do they work well with iv heard the brewmaster is good with them but what elce? or am i diving in to far. should i just get a crew box first and learn the game before getting fussy over what i want

[Fetid Strumpet]

Have you looked at the pull my finger wiki? It's a good fan created wiki for model and master advice and tactics.

[Adran]

Playing models you like to look at is a very good reason for playing the game. 

The nature of the game means that all models have a use, but they might not be best at a certain time. 

Samurai are fine. I probably wouldn't often play 3 in a list, but am happy to hire one for most strategies. 

They will work fine with any of the Ten thunders masters. I can't think of a particular synergy that they have with any one master, but they do a job that any master could want

Getting a crew box and a box of Samurai is not a bad start. Learning using multiples of the same model make it that you have less to remember whilst you are trying to learn the rules. 

[Gennosuke]

I've played Samurai several times with Misaki, mostly just one, but sometimes even two. They have never actually amortized their cost, so I'm not really into them.

However, I think they should work better in a Shenlong crew, taking advantge of Shenlong's aura, which synergize well with the Samurai Stand Ground and Reading the Wind rules, especially as the Samurai doesn't have a (0) action of its own. Also, they should work good with either the Emmisary or the Obsidian Oni from wave 3, as they wouild always have an upgrade with them.

Another option is using them in a Lynch crew, to dig aces with their shooting action, but I'm not completely sure if that will really justify bringing a 8SS model, when there are to many nice things in that cost range.

[newsun]

I like Samurai with Lynch to dig for aces and adding some ranged threat to the board that can reach pretty far.

[MrDeathTrout]

I've never had good luck with Samurai, but I haven't used them much.  I'm guessing it's not that they are terrible, but that I haven't figured out how to use them yet.  I'm sure I will give them a try again at some point.  I think one key thing I did wrong with them is not waiting until late in the round to activate them.  Since I can't cheat on their shooting attack (oops, got them confused with Fuhatsu) I want my opponent to have used up all their good cards.  With shooting 5 its often easy for your opponent to cheat higher than you early in the round, even with all the positive flips.  

I agree with Adran, Malifaux is a subtle game.  The best way to use models is not always obvious.  I'd pick a starter set and a couple of models you like and play them until you know them well. The swap in another model and repeat.  In Malifaux it is far better to play a scenario with a sub-optimal crew played optimally, than the optimal crew played sub-optimally.

[LeperColony]

My friend runs a shooty Misaki crew, mostly based around liking the way the various ranged models looks.  It's often something like (with the caveat that since I'm going by memory, there are bound to be inaccuracies, especially in the upgrades): 

Misaki -- 3ss
 +Smoke & Shadows - 1ss
 +Stalking Bisento - 2ss
 +Misdirection - 2ss

Fuhatsu - 10ss
 +Recalled Training - 1ss

Katanaka Sniper - 7ss

Ototo - 10ss
 +Smoke Grenades - 1ss

Samurai - 8ss
 +Favor Of Jigoku - 0ss

Thunder Archer - 7ss

[Pyrflamme]

21 minutes ago, MrDeathTrout said:

I've never had good luck with Samurai, but I haven't used them much.  I'm guessing it's not that they are terrible, but that I haven't figured out how to use them yet.  I'm sure I will give them a try again at some point.  I think one key thing I did wrong with them is not waiting until late in the round to activate them.  Since I can't cheat on their shooting attack I want my opponent to have used up all their good cards.  With shooting 5 its often easy for your opponent to cheat higher than you early in the round, even with all the positive flips.  

I agree with Adran, Malifaux is a subtle game.  The best way to use models is not always obvious.  I'd pick a starter set and a couple of models you like and play them until you know them well. The swap in another model and repeat.  In Malifaux it is far better to play a scenario with a sub-optimal crew played optimally, than the optimal crew played sub-optimally.

Whoa, wait. You absolutely can cheat their Shoulder Gatling. You may be thinking of Fuhatsu, where his (2) cannot be cheated. Of course, going later isn't a terrible idea, given the penalty for failing (unless you pack the Jigoku upgrade).

[MrDeathTrout]

10 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

My friend runs a shooty Misaki crew, mostly based around liking the way the various ranged models looks.  It's often something like (with the caveat that since I'm going by memory, there are bound to be inaccuracies, especially in the upgrades): 

Misaki -- 3ss
 +Smoke & Shadows - 1ss
 +Stalking Bisento - 2ss
 +Misdirection - 2ss

Fuhatsu - 10ss
 +Recalled Training - 1ss

Katanaka Sniper - 7ss

Ototo - 10ss
 +Smoke Grenades - 1ss

Samurai - 8ss
 +Favor Of Jigoku - 0ss

Thunder Archer - 7ss

It's interesting I've pondered trying something similar at some point.   I'm guessing either Smoke & Shadows is not in this list or your friend is using it improperly.  S&S must he carried by a Last Blossom model, but only benefits Last Blossom minions so no one in this list can use its abilities.  Also I often take 2 snipers or 2 archers.  Some times one of each, but usually the terrain favors one over the other.  I take 2 snipers on a wide open board with good fire lanes, or 2 archers on a tightly packed board.  If you take two archers I would definitely take Blot the Sky on someone.  

[MrDeathTrout]

@pyrflamme - you are correct.  I was getting  them confused with Fuhatsu.  Shows you how much I play them.  I've corrected the original post.

[ArcticPangolin]

Because of the temptation to shoot ALL the things, starting using a Samurai with Jigoku is a great idea. I've had more good runs with Samurai than bad, but there have definitely been a couple of "learning experiences", like the time an Earth Samurai got a black joker on each of the two shots he made in the game, plus a 1Dg ping from a Freikorps Trapper inbetween. If you're not packing Favour of Jigoku, REALLY seriously consider whether or not shooting is a good idea if the whereabouts of the black joker is unknown and if you're not using an Obey-like effect to do it. And just because you got the Walking Fire trigger, don't think that you have to use it if it's getting a little too risky.

I've only run them with McCabe (the extra pushes from and utility of his upgrades area nice touch) and with Ama in a Campaign, but if you were to be using non-Jigoku Samurai I could see them getting some nice bonuses from Shen Long (getting extra focus is great for their Daisho) and Obeys from Brewmaster for many potential risk-free shots. I am keen to get Jakob Lynch down the line and use one to fish for Aces for a discard-effect crew (Wandering and High River Monks, 10T Bros, Wastrels, all that jazz).

Obsidian Oni can also heal Samurai, as even without Armour-ignoring enemies the damage can start to stack up.

[LeperColony]

16 hours ago, MrDeathTrout said:

It's interesting I've pondered trying something similar at some point.   I'm guessing either Smoke & Shadows is not in this list or your friend is using it improperly.  S&S must he carried by a Last Blossom model, but only benefits Last Blossom minions so no one in this list can use its abilities.  Also I often take 2 snipers or 2 archers.  Some times one of each, but usually the terrain favors one over the other.  I take 2 snipers on a wide open board with good fire lanes, or 2 archers on a tightly packed board.  If you take two archers I would definitely take Blot the Sky on someone.  

Yeah, the only upgrade I'm 100% on was Stalking Bisento.

Sometimes he doubles up, but honestly I think he just likes having one each from a cosmetic standpoint. 

The first time he fielded it I wasn't sure, but it does sort of work.  Ototo generally tries to absorb focus, Misaki tries to lurk around the edges and the shooty guys shoot.  It is a bit weak in scheme running and has some trouble with summoners, but Gaining Grounds should help out a bit.

[Yvarre]

I am a big fan of using the Favor of Jigoku Samurai with his 14" range and Walking Fire trigger, as the 1" melee range makes me consider other models in their price range that are more mobile and hit further away if I need a melee model, though the ignoring armor bit of their Daito could be really handy against certain crews.  All of my advice will be geared towards using one Samurai with Favor of Jigoku.

As I predominantly use the samurai as a semi-mobile gun turret, having some effects to help position them is really good to help spend all their AP shooting as they only have a meager wk 4.  For this, I find McCabe as an excellent master to push them around and potentially hand out nimble.  Shen Long also can push, make them fast, and give free focus.  Mr. Graves also has a nice 6" push which will allow them an area of control 30" up the board turn 1 Standard deployment at its peak, allowing them to hit models near or even in the deployment zone the first turn.  Sensei Yu also has nice push effects to support them and hand out fast with the Wandering River Style upgrade, and 3 AP of shooting from one of these guys can put some serious hurt on both your opponent's models and control hand, as the Walking Fire trigger becomes that much more likely, and models will die.

I find that it's best to use the FoJ Samurai to control large open space on the board, and it's not so great in really dense terrain, though if it has a throughline to multiple places 14" away it can be a great control piece even here.  They work especially well against crews that have many smaller models with lower defense, and I often use a samurai to kill swarms of Bayou Gremlins or summoned models on low wounds.  Though as long as they have multiple targets, they are amazing to soften models up for the rest of your crew to finish off.  I even shoot into engagement without worrying if it randomizes to hit my own Mr. Graves to splash models with his Black Blood, relenting on a low ram for Walking Fire.

I will also speak to how much I love them to dig for aces with Lynch, as I frequently end up going through almost my entire deck and netting 3 or even 4 aces each turn while using a Samurai, though of course not all on its activation.  This combines well with Woke up with a Hand to give Lynch cards to Mulligan and gives a great fail safe for his Final Debt attack as it will still be doing a minimum of 5 damage even if you cheated away your hand.  Then, if you didn't Mully the aces away, you can have a nice 6 points of damage from Wanna See a Trick.  If the opponent has 2 models in range, Lynch can Play for Blood to give Brilliance to each, and deal a total of 7 damage to one and 8 to the other.  Lynch's ability to stack the control hand also sets up great turns for the samurai.

I like them most in Collect the Bounty (with healing support from McCabe) and Reckoning, and they can be devastating in Interference and Reconnoiter given open terrain and a crew with many smaller models.  They're gonna be pretty nasty also in Hunting Party, though I've yet to try the new schemes.  In Campaign mode, I hire one right off the bat with Favor of Jigoku and get Fan the Hammer on it ASAP.  While a mean way to win games, tabling one's opponent early can be super easy at the start of a campaign.