admiralvorkraft Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I've given up on using Legalese. Loop Holes barely ever comes into play and I've never gotten either Lucius' or McMourning's marker flipping auras to work terribly well. Of the two, McMourning is faster and harder to pin down so I got more work from him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquer Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 5 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said: I've given up on using Legalese. Loop Holes barely ever comes into play and I've never gotten either Lucius' or McMourning's marker flipping auras to work terribly well. Of the two, McMourning is faster and harder to pin down so I got more work from him... I don't run it myself either, too many wonderful toys. On Wings of Darkness is practically an auto-include. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 On 2016-03-16 at 4:51 PM, Masquer said: Just means we have to be more proactive if we want to use Legalese for those opportunities. Personally, I've always found Loop Holes the more pressing ability from that upgrade. I'm not sure loop holes has ever worked for me. It's very rare for auras to affect any unit type, it's usually undeads/mercs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 20 minutes ago, Ludvig said: I'm not sure loop holes has ever worked for me. It's very rare for auras to affect any unit type, it's usually undeads/mercs etc. It also makes him immune to auras and pulses that only affect enemies, like Misery and Drowning in My Wake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 The aura immunity is the more important part IMO. The other half of the upgrade might not come into play at all, ever. It's more of a mind trick to keep your opponent guessing and overwork them (although it helped me win a game by stealing a marker once). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm currently thinking about him as a teleporting tarpit, someone who wanders into and out of a warzone with impunity, moving between the raindrops. I'm working on how this translates to the tabletop, but the more I mull it over, the more I think I've found a "thing" for him. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I have wanted that style as well Joel, I havnt got it yet. I tryed the emissary to turn him into an end of turn jack the ripper, teamed up with pathnfinders, angle eyes and a doppleganger (ocassionaly with queeg for more traps/interacts). But with this setup I was to squishy. my next attempt is fears candy a beckoner or 2, a few pathfinders for traps and maybe angel eyes. game plan is, candy holds as many as she can while path finders make trap fields, angel and path finders shoot into combats and beckoners lure onto traps and into my nasty zones and Lucius just warps around red tapeing everything. Add or remove as the scheme requires Lucius and Mai Feng are the two who I always run out of Ss when building a crew for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Apologies for the double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Interesting idea - I was planning on using doppelgänger and graves, both with mimics blessing, and making a lot of use of red tape 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I was just thinking that, I was thinking adding changelings for activations. I realy like pathfinders, especially with Lucius, but I don't know if I can afford another mid to high tome user I do suport the use of angel eyes, shooting into a fight Lucius is stuck in is great (and fits the idea of him gliding through the carnage with her bullets flying all around him, and she can be his hidden sniper) her self heal is great to make back Ss Lucius used although this build dosnt use his horror duels much I still like a lawyer, htw on Lucius is nice and fees makes the double neg attacks of foes a real choice (attacking at - - and taking damage, against a manipulative model worth 4ss makes changlings quickly ignored 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 The trouble with red tape is that you need to stone for the ram a lot of the time. In my experience the scribe is a lot better at applying it than Lucius. Of course when you have the luxury of being able to pick primordial magic you might not always bring the scribe so Lucius might need to get his hands dirty. Don't forget that fees only triggers if the enemy model actually damaged you, they don't take damage if they miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 But lucius can get stones "for free" and if you are playing for red tape, it'll be worth it to stone it. I think the scribe will be in the list too though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 thoughts on putting the emissary in, in can remove conditions incase of acidental paralysis. Makes changelings for free ss. Gives Lucius a strong attack incase he has red tape out on a target. And gives healing to help give Lucius ss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPN Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I recently got a Lucius box in a trade, so I’m planning to try out something on the line of this: Lucius – Surprisingly Loyal+ Sniper Primordial Magic Doppleganger Nekima Guild Lawyer Austringer Austringer Pathfinder +1 spare SS The idea is to diverge a bit from my melee focused neverborn crews (Dreamer mainly, and I’m also preparing Pandora), so I will have Austringers for some shooting options, even if they can’t receive Lucius’s command to do additional actions. Pathfinder is for more shooting and scheming, other than maybe pop a couple of traps. The Lawyer is intended to work as a baby-sitter, providing bonus to horror duels and/or giving out hard to wound to Nekima. Also, if the nephilim girl have to face something really tough, or many clumped enemies, he can provide the Fees condition for the combo with Black Blood to increase damage output. Nekima is just Nekima. The doppleganger, other than Ill Omens, gives a bit more versatility, copying the rifle of someone or Nekima’s sword if more beating is needed. And with good walk, she has proven to be a decent scheme runner for me, in the past. 8 models doesn’t seems a too low starting model-count, and maybe in a tournament, with less chances to reach later turns, might worth to play more aggressive and suicide style, trying to gather points, without having to face fully the consequence of have suffered too many causalities in doing that. One big weakness I can see is the vulnerability to a long-range Killjoy bomb focused on Nekima (Hamelin, Tara, Leveticus). With the Dreamer I could trade my Teddy for their Killjoy and still have a good beater at disposition (Chompy), but here it seems to me that Losing Nekima early would be a very big punch to suffer, leaving me without anything able to retaliate properly. The idea I had about this is to maybe swap as below, if I feel there will be a Killjoy ready to strike: Lucius – Surprisingly Loyal Primordial Magic Doppleganger Guild Lawyer Austringer Pathfinder Mr Graves Illuminated Illuminated Mr Graves with Fees+ Black Blood is still a decent beater, and if killed I have two Illuminati that with additional actions should be able to dispatch the big one. These are just ideas, I’m open to any Opinion and suggestion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, HPN said: I recently got a Lucius box in a trade, so I’m planning to try out something on the line of this: Lucius – Surprisingly Loyal+ Sniper ... Close to what I prefer running with Lucius, the only difference is I ditch the lawyer and usually one of the Guardsman and take The True Mother + Growth on Nekima and two Terror Tots. Lawyers are walking scheme markers for me, nothing more (well, in some cases they can become an extra Slow or Paralyze applied with Focus). If I want walking scheme markers though I have Austringers who can be swapped just the same wherever you want them and who shoot, or rather, send their Raptors out. This is a nice thing to think about, though: Should I maybe include another model from the Guild more often? Such as two Pathfinders and one Austringer, or vice versa. Hmmm... As for the second list, I have tried something similar. Lawyers certainly have more synergy with Illuminated, while the latter are quite cost-efficient for minions and quite a good fit for Lucius in NB - also part of the reason why I believe him to be better in this faction, he has more strong options here with all the Guardsman imported. Summoning with Nekima, etc. is the other part. I would swap the Lawyer out for Mr. Tannen, though - he is more scheme-oriented (Chatty!), reduces Wk/Ch so protects your models and makes trap duels harder to get out of, pushes Mr. Graves ahead, etc. Also, he is an excellent sucker for Frame For Murder as he is often targeted and easily brought down. If you do take Tannen then I would suggest giving The Scribe a try, Graves and Tannen really like the extra Df and the little guy is a lot more reliable than Lucius as a Red Tape source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurtz Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Another minion that works well for the free SS are the Guild Orderlies. (2) Emergency Surgery to heal 2, with Regen 1 gives you a free SS mine each turn. Keeps Illuminated etc a bit healthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Aren't orderlies witchhunters, rather than guardsmen/mimics? Edit: Ah, you can take them as mercenaries. That makes them a bit pricey though, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurtz Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Yeah true, as mercenaries it's a bit much. Maybe if we flip it on its head and run him as Guild Lucius with 4 mimics it would be an OK work around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I've tried and tried but Lucius just seems to take so much work to make it worthwhile and even then I still takes the perfect storm to get any results. Really wondering if there doesn't need to be some sort of fix to get him to competitive levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 He got me way better at managing my hand and soulstones, and I like him enough/am good enough with him that I'll play him a decent amount, but I doubt I'd ever step near a tournament with him. My feeling is that big and/or flexible minions are the way to run him best, since they have a better return on those expensive cards you're throwing around for good action generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 My problem is that what he does requires resources. Devil's Deal seems good until you realize that Colette gets SS back for free basically. 3 damage is a lot for a minion. Commanding Presence takes cards out of your hands more often than not. Minions tend to be squishy, especially on NB side (not counting Illuminated), and if you kill off minions Lucius can't do much on his own. I just feel like I'm pedalling hard to get up a hill that is just a speed bump for any other master in the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Do Changlings have a regen? Just checked, yes they do. As Mimics Lucius can cart a couple around with him, and they offer a self healing model for him to Devil's Deal on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 has anyone tried merc freikorp specialist and a widow weaver and just not caring about failed horror duel's? I know it makes Ss tight as that's the issue I'm having when making a list and its plinking for damage (although regen/emissary if you can afford it mitigate the damage). But I think there is potential there, the card draw would help Lucius too. example list Lucius, hidden sniper upgrade 2ss widow 8ss specialist 9ss (cant remember cost) illuminated 7ss illuminated 7ss doppelganger (camo upgrade) 8ss changeling 4ss tot 4ss 49 ss total tt brewmaster basically needs mercs to work, maybe Lucius dose to also potential to use Johan to remove the conditions and changelings to use his hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 2 hours ago, izikial said: has anyone tried merc freikorp specialist and a widow weaver and just not caring about failed horror duel's? I know it makes Ss tight as that's the issue I'm having when making a list and its plinking for damage (although regen/emissary if you can afford it mitigate the damage). But I think there is potential there, the card draw would help Lucius too. example list Lucius, hidden sniper upgrade 2ss widow 8ss specialist 9ss (cant remember cost) illuminated 7ss illuminated 7ss doppelganger (camo upgrade) 8ss changeling 4ss tot 4ss 49 ss total tt brewmaster basically needs mercs to work, maybe Lucius dose to also potential to use Johan to remove the conditions and changelings to use his hammer Interesting list. My first idea was to pair the 2 Illuminated with a couple merc Snipers and the upgrade. These are the most efficient minions I could think of for him. To round out the list I would usually take 2 Terror Tots. Later I came to look for an even heavier bruiser than Illuminated and everything somehow clicked when Nekima was released... As a side not, which mercs would you take with Brewmaster to make him work? I mean he has access to the Katanaka Snipers, and I like them more then Freikorps Trappers - so what would you hire in? I'm curious, because although he has his shortcomings (and might not really be a tournament viable Master) I have had a lot of fun with him and some of the whackier TT models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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