Ironsides... WTF!

[Lizzy Lovecraft]

She's ignoring pulses, denying conditions, doing damage when struck, her hench is tossing her around... etc, etc, etc...   WTF!

[JoeJones]

Union. Check the contract and read the fine print.

[admiralvorkraft]

She dies faster than McMourning, doesn't hit as hard as Mei Feng, her mages are squishy as any model in the game, and the Captain is no great tank.

I love her, but she's not crazy. Just as good as any other master you've never seen before.

[Tawg]

I certainly wouldn't call her insane, but I definitely think she can live longer than McMourning if she's trying.  But she can be hard to build up steam with and get rolling.

Probably one of the only Arcanist masters out there I'd ever bother getting into.

[Dirial]

She's ignoring pulses, denying conditions, doing damage when struck, her hench is tossing her around... etc, etc, etc...   WTF!

Yep. And?

All the Masters can do crazy, crazy stuff. It's how the game rolls. In fact, if you changed your list from "ignoring pulses" to "hits like a truck full of bricks", you'd just describe Justice.

Do you have issues with some specific matchup or scenario? We could help way better then.

[Lizzy Lovecraft]

Now that I've calmed my embalmed nerves and cleaned up the 3'X3' table I flipped...

I began my foray into Malifaux with Seamus and the Red Chapel girls.  Expanded with Molly and the crooligang.  And Have been spending my days running board control, movement tricks, and a less than melee heavy crews.  I have two opponents.  One runs Perdita, the other Ramos.  Perdita is easy to work around with swarms of undead, hard to wound, and pulls and pushes.  Sometimes things get hairy, as they often do in a skirmish game, but through scheme and strategy work, winning is still viable.  Ramos (or more importantly, Joss and Howard) can hit hard if I get too close.  And I feel like deep down Ramos wants to be a Rezzer with all his spider summoning.  But still, at the end of the day in Malifaux, VP gets you a win, not brute force. 

Still, I wanted to hit something; a wanted to hit it hard!  So I left the Belles and Doxies and Crooligans behind and I showed up today with the University of Transmortis students and some Punk Zombies, led by Horror Molly in-case one went down.  I knew my opponent was playing Arcanists, and I knew he had his new Troubleshooter crew, and I didn't do my homework of what that was bringing to the table. 

I now know that fights in the middle of the table is what Toni is looking for.  I recognize that those Oxfordian Mages need to be dragged kicking and screaming 11" away from her.  Black Blood will be useless.  Slice and Dice will only hurt my crew.  And two Students of Viscera is one too many near Ironsides.  And most importantly, I learned to respect my dead girls and don't scoff at their 1/2/3 damage spread.   Seamus IS gonna make Ironsides' corpse into a Belle!  Now to figure something out about that Counterspell ('Tina has it, but when do I ever actually throw a spell at 'Tina?)

...She still seems way OP...

[joediamond]

Can I just pop in to say I am glad Ironsides finally got her "OMG how do I deal with this master?!?!" thread.  

 

That "hero or zero" thread where people were calling her underpowered and whatnot was depressing.

 

As for Ironsides, that crazy super OP "no conditions or pulse damage" thing that she has?  All you need to do to deal with that is get rid of a 5 wound Df5 model...just keep that in mind.  Like people here are saying, she has her strengths and weaknesses like any other master.

[katadder]

in anything other than annoyance value ironsides is lacking really.

mei feng pretty much takes everything she can do and does it better, actually dealing with the crowd if needed or putting out a whole chain of attacks without relying on something that I have rarely ever built up

I mean apart from against new people has anyone ever built adrenaline up? think I had 6 against someone that had never faced her before but other than that I usually get 1, maybe 2. rather than being angry my Ironsides seems to wander through a battle in a fugue state, would be better if she got a certain amount per turn as the battle goes on and she gets angrier

[admiralvorkraft]

Ironsides gave me my best-ever game against Hamlin.

"Oh, you want to walk your rats together and form a king? How about some TN 13 Wp duels first. Thank you, I'll take that three adrenaline next turn if you don't mind..." Repeat in some variation every turn.

If there was only a non-Emissary way to guarantee her at least one adrenaline a turn so that she could use her better (0)... That and making Mouse, the spymaster, Significant. Ah well, she's still my favorite Master in the game bar none. 

[dalleron]

I find the Captain the lynchpin of this crew.  Take care of him and his air burst  and Toni is less dangerous.  I definitely wouldn't take a melee crew against her if possible. And if she making you swing when you don't want to, cheat so you miss and you won't get hit back.  

[Lizzy Lovecraft]

I find the Captain the lynchpin of this crew.  Take care of him and his air burst  and Toni is less dangerous.  I definitely wouldn't take a melee crew against her if possible. And if she making you swing when you don't want to, cheat so you miss and you won't get hit back.  

Agreed.  Ironsides don't seem so bad herself, for my play-style, I'm putting that Oxfordian Mage with Blood Ward in my cross-hairs.  I'm gonna request the levitating one be the one wearing the upgrade, so at least I think the model's cool while I scorn it....

[whiteape1]

Ironsides can seem ridiculous, but it's situational. She loves a fight, where many minis are stuck in a mosh. But she can't be there for long, pops in does damage and uses captain to get out as quick as possible. Honestly with the right concentration she drops like a fly. I've thrown teddy at her, and nearly took her and the captain out in the same turn. She can be killed.

[zFiend]

Double up on Executioners and watch her go! No df triggers.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Double up on Executioners and watch her go! No df triggers.

Except with the captain and mages she has so many pushes available, those executioners probably won't ever get her. And DF triggers are hardly the worst thing to worry about. With her almost mandatory challenge the crowd upgrade you're still fighting defense flips.

in anything other than annoyance value ironsides is lacking really.

mei feng pretty much takes everything she can do and does it better, actually dealing with the crowd if needed or putting out a whole chain of attacks without relying on something that I have rarely ever built up

I mean apart from against new people has anyone ever built adrenaline up? think I had 6 against someone that had never faced her before but other than that I usually get 1, maybe 2. rather than being angry my Ironsides seems to wander through a battle in a fugue state, would be better if she got a certain amount per turn as the battle goes on and she gets angrier

That is incorrect. Mei Fen specifically doesn't do everything Ironsides does - she can't buff the hell out of the crew around her. Ironsides is very much a support master disguised as a beatstick. Without her crew around her she won't ever reach her potential.

If you can't build up adrenaline, you're not using her lure-type powers properly and not using pushes. She's meant to start off on the side lines knocking the heads of a few minions together to build up adrenaline. She can also build up adrenaline when her crew is damaged and using her melee triggers on brass knuckles. And given that her crew gets (much) better when damaged - they basically all go up to 4 AP if they spend both their AP on attacks - she really wants her crew to get dented while she's nearby punching a few minions.

Having + to damage flips on gun smiths and the Captain is huge. With the + on the attack flip it means instead of having to cheat to win duels, you can cheat to raise the damage to severe. So now even people without stupid-high damage tracks can cause a lot of damage without any additional resource expenditure on your behalf.

When Ironsides has 6-8 adrenaline, her damage output becomes utterly ridiculous.

[zFiend]

But.. Executioners are surely known for their speed! They have no problems of getting into combat which is why they are so highly valued as combat monsters in the Guild! Wait.. 

[Patzer]

I am sure that Ironsides can be terrifying in the right hands, but she seems to be very hard to get rolling.

If I play against her with Daw I would just throw Firing Squad Injustice on her every turn. Leveticus: go after her Willpower. Pandora: go after her Willpower. Lilith: throw Vicked Vines at her and block off my models with Illusionary Forest. Hamelin: double Trapper, I Pay Better, Obey, should keep her honest enough... 

[Sordid Strumpet]

Sure but those are annoying no matter what master you play against, not specific counters to Ironsides. Rasputina doesn't want to be damaged every time she attacks, Perdita hates her LOS being blocked by stuff and so forth. And preventing Ironsides from doing damage still doesn't prevent her buffing her crew, she has a 6" place trigger to get in your face when she wants to and she is surprisingly resilient with regeneration and adrenaline.

[katadder]

if you can get 6-8 adrenaline your opponent doesnt know Ironsides, her lure doesnt get you adrenaline that quickly, your guys being damaged only does if you want to throw all your cards away
Mei feng can also buff her crew against the right opponents (hard worker upgrade for ressers or armoured people), and protect them better than toni does using vent steam, then travel extremely fast to where she needs to be before laying the smack down on people.

I have used both in tourneys and friendlys and for me mei feng comes out on top every time so far without relying on the fragile oxfordian mages to be immune to paralyse and slow.

I still like ironsides but shes too close to mei feng for me and for me mei feng is better

[Tawg]

As for Ironsides, that crazy super OP "no conditions or pulse damage" thing that she has?  All you need to do to deal with that is get rid of a 5 wound Df5 model...just keep that in mind.  Like people here are saying, she has her strengths and weaknesses like any other master.

It's even easier than that, because if you break LoS from the Mage to Toni she drops the buff too.  If a 40mm anything just steps between her and the mage it all but ensures they can't see each other, and that is even easier to do if they are really sitting back and preventing you from killing the mage.  Granted Toni can basically teleport anywhere she wants (Unless a Resser brings Anna now, or anyone since she's a Merc) so she could avoid this, but if all you need to do is drop paralyze on her, it'll be too late anyways.

I certainly think Toni is pretty damn cool when played right, but any master is going to be hell if you play directly into what they want to be doing.  You just gotta figure out how to break the fidgety little parts that keep them together.

[santaclaws01]

As for Ironsides, that crazy super OP "no conditions or pulse damage" thing that she has?  All you need to do to deal with that is get rid of a 5 wound Df5 model...just keep that in mind.  Like people here are saying, she has her strengths and weaknesses like any other master.

It's even easier than that, because if you break LoS from the Mage to Toni she drops the buff too.  If a 40mm anything just steps between her and the mage it all but ensures they can't see each other, and that is even easier to do if they are really sitting back and preventing you from killing the mage.  Granted Toni can basically teleport anywhere she wants (Unless a Resser brings Anna now, or anyone since she's a Merc) so she could avoid this, but if all you need to do is drop paralyze on her, it'll be too late anyways.

I certainly think Toni is pretty damn cool when played right, but any master is going to be hell if you play directly into what they want to be doing.  You just gotta figure out how to break the fidgety little parts that keep them together.

Pretty much this. You can't just let the enemy crew do what they want to do, you gotta throw some stones into the works. And even at a max possible  to her Df flip, it's still only a Df 5. Anything with a 7 against Df is going to give her issues, and targeting her Wp just completely wastes everything she put in to buffing up her Df. Also Chiaki gets special mention for just being able to remove her Adrenaline.

[zFiend]

 

As for Ironsides, that crazy super OP "no conditions or pulse damage" thing that she has?  All you need to do to deal with that is get rid of a 5 wound Df5 model...just keep that in mind.  Like people here are saying, she has her strengths and weaknesses like any other master.

It's even easier than that, because if you break LoS from the Mage to Toni she drops the buff too.  If a 40mm anything just steps between her and the mage it all but ensures they can't see each other, and that is even easier to do if they are really sitting back and preventing you from killing the mage.  Granted Toni can basically teleport anywhere she wants (Unless a Resser brings Anna now, or anyone since she's a Merc) so she could avoid this, but if all you need to do is drop paralyze on her, it'll be too late anyways.

I certainly think Toni is pretty damn cool when played right, but any master is going to be hell if you play directly into what they want to be doing.  You just gotta figure out how to break the fidgety little parts that keep them together.

As for Ironsides, that crazy super OP "no conditions or pulse damage" thing that she has?  All you need to do to deal with that is get rid of a 5 wound Df5 model...just keep that in mind.  Like people here are saying, she has her strengths and weaknesses like any other master.

You just gotta figure out how to break the fidgety little parts that keep them together.

Good thing is that there are quite a few boxes already with the fidgety little parts already broken in the sprue! Serious note. The mages are super squishy really from what I've seen.