Starting Kirai

[Tayne]

Hey folks. At Easter, I wanted the alt Kaeris so I picked up a translucent Kirai box (she appealed to me more than the other resser masters). Now I'm looking for some rough advice of what to get/field to have a decent game. In addition to her box, I have:

Bete Noir (just love the alt metal sculpt)

Three drowned (for summons, not hires)

Datsue Ba

2 shikome (again, for summons)

The Valedictorian (and the three students).

I was planning to pick up The Hanged for summons, Izamu to whack things and a Flesh construct to summon off. What else should I look at? Seems wrong not to plan for belles or nurses..

[Fetid Strumpet]

You'll need something to proxy the remaining Seishin until a basic box of them comes out, or you can find metal ones.

You'll want Izamu. I would recommend picking up a graveyard Spirit. Night Terrors. Hanged. And Rotten Belles as well.

 

Number one purchase in my opinion would be Izamu.

[Phototropic]

gaki for datsue ba's summons, but otherwise your plans sound pretty solid

[doombladez]

Number one purchase in my opinion would be Izamu.

Maybe we should make a pinned thread that just says "New Player Advice: Buy Izamu" Honestly if you play Ressers or 10T he's worth picking up, that dude's amazing. 

[Rob Lo]

Izamu does have some fun synergy with Kirai. She's very good at taking away his big weakness of being slow. Her movement tricks are one of the good uses of Night Terrors. Just saw the preview of those in plastic though, so they'll be a while. A lot of people like the summoning off Flesh Constructs, they're great targets for it. If you're using one primarily for summoning purposes, dropping the paralyze/heal from a nurse after he's up in a good central position can bring him back up to full health, which is almost like having brought two of them with the crew, all for the cost of 1AP from a nurse and probably a card to get off the heal.

I'm honestly looking for other go to beatsticks that aren't Izamu, no matter what master, because he's just so easy to fit in damn near everywhere, you start to get tired of seeing him all the time, and your opponent knows to plan for him!

[Fetid Strumpet]

Really, he's sort of the best the Resser's have. There are some other options... You could go with Killjoy, or the Dead Rider,...but that's sort of it as far as big scary killy models go for Ressers if you are looking for a dedicated beat stick. You can certainly do it with other models, but you are trading out some combination of specialization and killing power for more utility or cheaper cost. In my opinion anyway. 

[Freman]

Izamu does have some fun synergy with Kirai. She's very good at taking away his big weakness of being slow. Her movement tricks are one of the good uses of Night Terrors. Just saw the preview of those in plastic though, so they'll be a while. A lot of people like the summoning off Flesh Constructs, they're great targets for it. If you're using one primarily for summoning purposes, dropping the paralyze/heal from a nurse after he's up in a good central position can bring him back up to full health, which is almost like having brought two of them with the crew, all for the cost of 1AP from a nurse and probably a card to get off the heal.

I'm honestly looking for other go to beatsticks that aren't Izamu, no matter what master, because he's just so easy to fit in damn near everywhere, you start to get tired of seeing him all the time, and your opponent knows to plan for him!

Bete Noire?

[Phototropic]

i forgot to mention how awesome necropunks are for scheme running, and night terrors for a cheap minion or summon.

[nunorod]

First thing I got when I started Kirai was Izamu. Then Hanged, Belles (seamus box) and flesh construct. I am proxying Shikome, Night Terrors, Gaki and DatsueBa.

Dtasue Ba is coming out soon with 3 more Sheishin.

[shakes1066]

 

I'm honestly looking for other go to beatsticks that aren't Izamu, no matter what master, because he's just so easy to fit in damn near everywhere, you start to get tired of seeing him all the time, and your opponent knows to plan for him!

Shikome on someone with Adversary, they have a better damage run, positive attack flips and can choose WP or DF to attack. They don't have the really low DF and they are faster than Izamu. In all ways apart from the Armour they are a better choice than Izamu IMO.

[Fetid Strumpet]

They don't have 3 attacks. Nor a built in way to heal in order to control a point of the board. Nor the ability to almost guarantee something will not get away via a walk action. Having used both, don't get me wrong I do like Shikome, but primarily as a summon with anyone but Seamus, and Izamu still is the better choice I feel. Don't forget he always get a positive to his damage flip regardless of wether the enemy has adversary or not.

[chris_havoc]

I agree with Fetid they are OK at best with Kirai. They are awesome with McMourning because they do get the extra attack bonus with a (1) Charge and they have the movement advantage over Izamu. But yeah in a Kirai crew they need a lot of baby sitting from Kirai or Datsue Ba.

[shakes1066]

Izamu never has three attacks as he is always healing himself, with the low DF he is constantly getting hit. I just find he rarely tanks like he should and his hitting power is a bit underwhelming.

[Stargazer]

Izamu never has three attacks as he is always healing himself, with the low DF he is constantly getting hit. I just find he rarely tanks like he should and his hitting power is a bit underwhelming.

I agree, I also find him too slow for most of my crews, once he's committed to a direction/location on the board it's very hard to reposition him. I much prefer taking the Valedictorian myself, faster, more flexible (flight does wonders), generally as tanky if not more so and has the potential to still hit reasonably hard. Also allows you to counter models with nasty triggers (Collette I'm looking at you!)

That being said with Kirai the slowness is somewhat negated by her movement shenanigans.

[Phototropic]

for kirai you definitely want to hire izamu and summon shikome. His armour (especially when your other friends come in damaged), being able to ignore wp duels, and being able to keep stuff engaged is really useful and most of it can't be found in her summons, i do enjoy how folks go out of their way to bring models which can ignore armour when nothing else i use has it. But I agree with others that shikome do more damage for me, also their movement, ignoring armour and handing out adversary is great. Izamu, shikome and hanged are a nice trifecta which can handle most situations, you just need to choose which is the more useful summon and then swirl in izamu. also there are some nice upgrades which work really well with izamu

[Kogan Style]

Stargazer and Shakes you do offer some great ideas! That's 2 ss saved and in strategies like Collect the Bounty you are only giving up 1 pt rather than 2 (subject to Izamu not being killed by a action)

[shakes1066]

Also if you use Yin with a Shikome you can put someone on negative flips for WP and if that model has adversary on it the Shikome can choose WP or DF to attack. 

[D_acolyte]

If you want to spread poison I recommend guild autopsy with their range 12 sh 5 crow shooting with the infect trigger is nothing to scoff at. I have played a few games with 1 in my mostly spirit campaign crew and he has never disappointed me on the job I have given him whether it is scheme running or giving poison so the shikome can one action charge. Also guild autopsy can make mindless zombies or as I call them summoning fodder.
For cheap models that can hold a point vs an enemy in combat I like ashigaru with their armor and hard to kill, also a seishin can heal them to make them even more a pain.
Datsue Ba is ok, the biggest reason to take her is her upgrade and "potential" but she has not done as well as I would hope. I think she is better with Kirai as seishin can be used to summoned off of. I think that there may be other better henchmen of Kirai and I am also not sure your "need" a henchman with her.
When I build a list for Kirai I run into a small problem, I want a lot more undead or living models then spirit model to help get the Ikiryo but this puts a small damper on my all spirit crew as half the spirit minions are not undead or living models. Currently my force is a mixture of spirits and horrors.
What limited upgrade do people like with her, I am a fan of bloody shears as I love accomplice with summoning masters.

I recommend if you are summoning off of non fodder models that you bring a way to recycle corpses, this will keep available models for you to use to be able to summon.

Edited October 5, 2015 by D_acolyte

[nunorod]

How would you all go about her at 35SS? Though choices...

 

[MagicGis]

I am just started too and I currently play a 35 point crew that most will most likely not agree with:

 

Kirai + Spirit Beacon +Bloody Shears

Hanged

Hanged

Lost Love

Datsue Ba + Spirit Whispers

Cache: 5

So only 5 Models... no real early scheme pressure. However I feel you are summon up in models very fast. I actually like the hanged as hires. They are not too squishy for me though that maybe because I did not face much incorp ignoring stuff yet in our very small playgroup. 

I find her + 2 close hanged in the first 1-2 turns where you summon than move up makes a really strong base. All models besides Lost love can drain cards with WP duels if you try to attack them. Also attacks on anything besides Datsue Ba get an Ikiryo summon out. 

Next I will try running the daimyo with upgradeto have the chance to do something with all those corpse and scrap markers.

 

 

[nunorod]

The only thing with the hanged is: On the first turn you attack you feel joy as how powerfull taking half the enemy damage is! The problem is it starts to be less efficient as the enemies take damage... So they are great for the first awesome hit and then you need something else to finish off. Unless they have great targets for the attacks, those attacks will be wasted on a 5 point model because the hanged are so expensive.

And they are not THAT durable, but ok.

You really need to start summoning soon so hope for high cards

[Phototropic]

to be honest I'm more worried you haven't taken swirling aether, the heal and movement is amazing, or a some walking wounds to summon off like a flesh construct or night terror if you want to be cheap. Its not too hard to get a hanged first if you use the seishin to give extra casting. You have a lot of scary incorporeal models so people will learn quickly to take something with a ca action, if you summon then you could go for something different like shikome or drowned which wouldn't be so worried about the ca actions. If the enemy takes less ca action it also makes life easier for datsue ba since incorporeal is her big defense. Do you teleport lost love (use i will never leave you) to datsue ba to give her the malevolence bubble? 

Its a nice scary start you will definitely enjoy all her other friends

[MagicGis]

Well Shikome and so on is not in plastic yet and to be honest... the previewed models look awesome, so I do not feel like going to the struggle to look for old metal ones now. I don´t like using models I don´t own ...making this master unfortunately hard to play for the moment... I make an exception for Gaki since they are on the triggers...

Hm swirling aether seems really nice... I have by the way made a good experience so far summoning Onryo also. It is doable with lowish tomes and Seishins and Lost love can also provide some healing. Summoning off an Hanged wounds and than healing it is kinda harsh, but  leaves it with more wounds than summoning of the front liner to heal that one afterwards. 

The 2 bubbels work really well for me two 6 bubbels is plenty of space for the back row models. However I will definitly have a look in more Resser stuff for her when I get access to it. I really like the look of shikome. 

The strategy is really a bit one dimensional right now.

 

On a side note... since her summon only says friendly model could I summon of the free seishin wounds, if I summon a low cost model, where I feel that I do not need the Ca bonus?

[Phototropic]

yeah you can definitely summon of a seishin, with dats, izamu with spirit beacon and kirai summoning seishin you will often find you have enough to summon off one and use the other for the +2, i've been finding i only summon one thing a turn after turn one then use the other action to heal or swirl so i summon off them quite a bit. It can be nice turn one though to not use them all up to help you out activate your opponent turn 2. But yeah it will be nice once kirai has some more plastic spirits available