Upgrades for Daw

[Patzer]

When I play Daw, I more or less always goes for the three Curses, Writhing Torment, and Twist and Turn. In some games I haven't got enough mileage out of all Curses (mostly Guillotine), but the reasoning is always in hindsight. From the get go that upgrade line-up always seem to be the best one.

So, what kind of upgrade sets are people running with Daw?

 

[Sezar]

Exactly that one

[daniello_s]

Same as yours, man. And that set really works!

[asrian]

Same, but I will occasionally go with Writhing, Twist, 2 Curses (Guillotine and Drowning), and Survivalist if Assassinate is in the pool.

[Patzer]

What about Betrayer, anyone get any mileage out of it?

[Sancho of Rime]

I really enjoy betrayer. My jack is usually; writhing torment, betrayer, and three curses. I find betrayer works nicely to keep him alive against tougher targets. I like to use jack to tie up enemies in the later turns. Everything that's still alive by the end of 4 should be tormented.

[Thavius]

I've recently been dropping Guillotine Injustice for The Creeping terror

[daniello_s]

IMO Creeping Terror belongs to Jaakuna.

[asrian]

IMO Creeping Terror belongs to Jaakuna.

Same, or Montressor if II use him occasionally

[Couchmonster]

I don't see myself ever not taking all 3 cursed upgrades, twist & turn and writhing torment. They just add too much to not have them. Hell in my last game I took no guilty & used Guillotine Injustice to tag my Strongarm with Tormented 1st turn

[Frisch]

I tend to take all three cursed upgrades as well. However limited my experience with Jack Daw might be, I often find myself wondering whether Guilloutine Injustice is more than a huge trap. Even if I am not taking another upgrade on Jack, I often want to leave it out to prevent myself getting carried away by it;

What it does: Killing off an enemy minion or peon

How it does that: On the enemy's terms

Basically, if the target model is critical for you to remove, you want the choice to be yours, not your opponent's. Is the minion in a position to score interference to swing the game, I am sure your opponent will have saved the cards for it. I know this might have weakened her control over all other duels during the turn, but the mere threat could equally well have allowed your opponent to keep a mediocre hand, knowing she would have to discard anyway, instead of spending a soul stone to improve her hand. Problem is; the choice is not yours.

If the target model is not critical to remove, you just spend AP from your master applying a condition to the target, maybe even putting Jackie Boy in an awkward position to do so. Your opponent will let the minion die and spend her cards ruining your day instead.

 

The only thing I currently consider Guilloutine Injustice for is giving Tormented to your own non-minion, non-peon models. This way Jackie can distribute permanent tormented to two models using just a single The Guilty (which I find a mainstay).

 

All that being said, there are definitely scheme pools and strategies out there, whose combination is so minion-centric that Guilloutine Injustice can be used offensively to some extend, I just do not rate it as high as the other Injustices in most scenarios.

[Patzer]

I tend to take all three cursed upgrades as well. However limited my experience with Jack Daw might be, I often find myself wondering whether Guilloutine Injustice is more than a huge trap. Even if I am not taking another upgrade on Jack, I often want to leave it out to prevent myself getting carried away by it;

What it does: Killing off an enemy minion or peon

How it does that: On the enemy's terms

Basically, if the target model is critical for you to remove, you want the choice to be yours, not your opponent's. Is the minion in a position to score interference to swing the game, I am sure your opponent will have saved the cards for it. I know this might have weakened her control over all other duels during the turn, but the mere threat could equally well have allowed your opponent to keep a mediocre hand, knowing she would have to discard anyway, instead of spending a soul stone to improve her hand. Problem is; the choice is not yours.

If the target model is not critical to remove, you just spend AP from your master applying a condition to the target, maybe even putting Jackie Boy in an awkward position to do so. Your opponent will let the minion die and spend her cards ruining your day instead.

The only thing I currently consider Guilloutine Injustice for is giving Tormented to your own non-minion, non-peon models. This way Jackie can distribute permanent tormented to two models using just a single The Guilty (which I find a mainstay).

All that being said, there are definitely scheme pools and strategies out there, whose combination is so minion-centric that Guilloutine Injustice can be used offensively to some extend, I just do not rate it as high as the other Injustices in most scenarios.

I mainly use Guillotine Injustice for hand destruction. As you said, it isn't anything you want to rely on. Rather it is an outstanding annoyance, which is definitely  worth spending one of Daw's AP on (albeit not worth getting him out of position for).
If you have to remove a model, Daw have other tech to remove models by himself or making others do it.
Nevertheless, if I only can pick two upgrades Guillotine is the first to go.
 

[daniello_s]

 

Nevertheless, if I only can pick two upgrades Guillotine is the first to go.
 

Totally agreed.

[Thavius]

IMO Creeping Terror belongs to Jaakuna.

I haven't been taking Jaakuna at all lately I feel that she has always under performed, First turn for Montressor is movement tricks

[Patzer]

IMO Creeping Terror belongs to Jaakuna.

I haven't been taking Jaakuna at all lately I feel that she has always under performed, First turn for Montressor is movement tricks

For me Jaakuna is a poor man's Montressor, and that is not a bad thing! Montressor is more expensive, requires more set up to work, and is in need of Soulstones to survive. Jaakuna on the other hand simply works. Her aura is always around, even if she is paralyzed (i.e. healed by a Nurse). Her Ml stat is better than Montressor's, thus she will have an easier time keeping people around. She also got movement tricks in Lure. Their stats are quite similar, but Jaakuna got more self-sufficient defenses Incorporeal, and Manipulative.

For full disclosure, Montressor have constantly under performed for me. He isn't tanky enough, and too close to that mint 10ss to compete with the Rusty Alyces, Strongarms, Taelors, and Lazarus of the world. Jaakuna simply does similar things for a cheaper price tag.

[jonahmaul]

I've only played one game and Jakuuna was very effective for me though she died quite easily to Black Blood Postules!  But she makes your opponent so wary of going near her portion of the board I was able to hold the farthest two Squat markers easily and drop a load of markers for ALiTS quite easily (one by killing off my own Cooked Man and getting two scheme markers from him which was lovely!).  Montressor on card just looks too easy to take down for his points.  When his main tricks involve pulling people into range to attack him too this is a big concern.  I could see how he could be super effective with the right set up but it seems like a lot of work that won't always work.

[Patzer]

 I could see how he could be super effective with the right set up but it seems like a lot of work that won't always work.

That is it. Montressor constantly needs the perfect storm to work.

There is still hope though, I think he can be fixed with an upgrade further down the line. Well see if that happens.

[zFiend]

Everything I've read about montresor is that he seems pretty cool on paper but he just doesn't get it off (giggidy) on the table. 

[Patzer]

Everything I've read about montresor is that he seems pretty cool on paper but he just doesn't get it off (giggidy) on the table. 

He is ok, but the faction simply got better options at his price range (that is 1 additional soulstone). His movement tricks on friendlies only works if he hurts them. He is very squishy and ht 3 on a 50"mm base, so it's hard to hide him. He wants enemies close to him, but isn't tanky enough or got any other tricks to handle punishment.
In the end, he is a fluffy model that is overshadowed by Outcasts great 10ss range. If you want to play a competitive Daw, Montressor is probably not for you. 

[daniello_s]

If you want to play a competitive Daw, Montressor is probably not for you.  

Which makes me sad...

[Sancho of Rime]

As everyone else here... Monty makes me sad. I want to love him... He occasionally does cool things...did 8 damage to a widow weaver with his range noose. However he gas rarely ever actually pushed anyone in(I'm always surprised to read that you can discard to not push. His nimble is nice... He's good for schemes... Above all his giant base makes him great for creeping terror.

..

..

but why does he die so easy?? His main mechanic is drag you in to hit range. You either gotta nurse him some armor... Or maybe survivalist. Or maybe just murder weak things. j

[Loveless]

but why does he die so easy?? His main mechanic is drag you in to hit range. You either gotta nurse him some armor... Or maybe survivalist. Or maybe just murder weak things. j

Maybe that's the point (not saying it's a good point or idea, but possibly...) - maybe he's supposed to be a "bully" type character who picks off weak targets.  Not really a needed role, unfortunately - and I can't think of many instances where he'd be my go-to for his SS cost...

[Sancho of Rime]

yeah,If he was tougher he would be pretty broken. Though my friend did give me the good idea of just using him to drag people into your own models for melee. So... that's something.