New to Ramos

[frostwolf428]

Hello everyone, I'm pretty new to Malifaux, I just put together my first crew ? I choose Ramos and man do I love him so far I've only had two games so far but they have been great. I was hoping people here could give me some insight into what models I should pick up next to help round out the crew to give him more synergy. I plan to get more steam arachnids and Johanna and an electrical creation but after that...I'm not  sure what else to get that would really help the crew. Any suggestions would be great. Right now I've only played against ressurectionists (Molly to be exact) one of my next matchs will be against a Guild crew lead by  Perdita and suggestions for things to watch out for /do, or even suggestions for what members I should hire would be great right now I'm leaning towards a large small cost crew vs Perdita in order to kind of over run her rather than a small but beefer crew. For example have Ramos with a lot of spiders and joss/Johanna instead of Ramos Howard joss and other big units/ targets . Anyway I look forward to hear your thought .                  Thanks a bunch.

[Durza]

Watch out for Perdita, she can ignore armour, and Ramos and co mainly count on armour to survive, abuse cover, she can also ignore cover, but can't ignore armour at the same time. Do you have metal gamin? little buggers are really, really good. Also the Mechanical rider, she can summon 4 stone arcanist minions, drop scheme markers easily and can be really hard to kill in the later turns against anything that can't ignore defensive triggers.

Perdita doesn't really have a lot of survivability, she relies on avoiding damage to stay alive. Kill Francisco asap, he buffs Perditas Df and Wp to 9. Watch out for Death marshals, they can take anything off the board with their pine box.

[AoS]

After the Starter: Mechanical Rider, SsMiner, Large Aracnid and Metal gaming.

You can also take the Rail workers and the Rail Golem.

[Fog]

Congratulations on picking the best master in the game!

Seriously, though, you are already picking up everything I run with Ramos. Sometimes I'll sneak in the rider. It's a fairly by the numbers list but it works amazingly well. The only strategy I hesitate to play Ramos in is reckoning, and he can still handle it. Arcing screen with def 6 spiders means it takes significant effort to even kill those guys.

My honest suggestion for your next purchase after Johan, more spiders and a rider would be another crew box. I like the M&SU boxes but your mileage may vary.

Welcome to the Union!

[frostwolf428]

Thanks for the advice so far, luckily Perdita does not have death marshals yet. I don't have any metal gamin, but why do you recommend them Durza and Aos? I checked out the card and they look pretty good but nothing to write home about . It looks like my next purchase should be Johanna and the Mechanical rider and of course more and more and more SPIDERS!!! hahahahaha *evil grin* but as I said before I really like this crew in my second match Molly got a little too close and Howard dropped her to 1 hp and made her lose 2 soul stones. and arching screen is just SO handy. Blowing up steam arachnids is pretty useful too, I did not think i would use that at all but when 1 spider kills a doxy and 2 crooliganss it worth it.

[AoS]

The Metal G can be summon by the Rider and they are so good models to protect Ramos and hold places.

Also you will need the mobile toolkit.

[madaxeman]

I don't have any metal gamin, but why do you recommend them Durza and Aos? I checked out the card and they look pretty good but nothing to write home about . 

They can give protection of metal to themselves, so get up to DF6. They can then sit tight and go defensive twice to give themselves +2 flips on any defence flip without discarding cards. H2K and Armour as well - pretty tough !! 

[angyi]

Just my opinion:

Six spiders and a swarm is enough in most games, but you'll need some more if you absolutely hate the idea of occasional proxying.

If you plan to buy the Rider, the Gamin box is a welcome addition. If you don't buy the rider, I think you'll be fine without any Gamnin for now.

You'll need a Mobile Toolkit for various reasons, most notably for a scrap battery.

If you buy Johan(na) anyway, play a game or two with a Cassandra proxy and decide if you like her. A nifty piece in herself, and even more useful if you pair her Understudy spell with Rebel Yell.

The Arcane Effigy is a good one, but not an absolute must if you already have Johan. ...and Cassandra  Still a good choice if you have 4SS left and you feel helpless.

I've found that Angelica is really useful in almost any Ramos builds.

Most people love the SS Miner to bits. I have a lukewarm experience with it, but if you have Angelica, you have absolutely no reasons left not to pick up an SS Miner.

Other models that I really like but you can do without if you're tight on budget: The Captain, Lazarus, a Performer, Hans, Malifaux Raptors. And of course Killjoy if you feel punkish

As for Perdita: try to play an aggressive game vs her. Even if you trade points for points, she'll run out of options faster than you, in regard of activation control and the ability to collect VP's. I think the question is not "a large small cost crew vs. a small but beefier crew", but "any crew vs. a crew that can hit her hard several times before it gets critically weakened". Of course you can try the hide-and-seek game and succeed, but in my experience that's not a safe bet versus Perdita.

Edited September 3, 2015 by angyi

[frostwolf428]

These responses have been  great, i can't wait to get some more models so i have more options when it comes to fights.

Angyi I like that you brought up Cassandra, john(na) combo and the miners with angelica i think it will be a great way to flip the tables on my friends going from being aggressive and very damaging to suddenly having high movement and schem tokens dropping every were . "A crew that can hit her hard several times before it gets critically weakened" sound advice vs Perdita  but it could prove difficult with the limited models i have right now, Ramos's box is not the fastest of crews

Metal Gamin-"They can give protection of metal to themselves, so get up to DF6. They can then sit tight and go defensive twice to give themselves +2 flips on any defence flip without discarding cards. H2K and Armour as well - pretty tough !! "

I did not realize how tough they could be, so they are great for schemes like Turf war were you can hunker them down and just rack up points, but do you ever really attack with them since they get 2 actions and the super defense mode takes 2 actions 1 for Protection of metal and another for defensive stance

 

[admiralvorkraft]

So long as they give Protection of Metal to themselves it doesn't go away - they're always within 3" of a friendly metal gamin, since they are friendly to themselves. It also makes their attack a bit stupid as anything they are engaged with is engaged with a friendly model with protection of metal on it (the self-same gamin), that gives them a converted damage track of 3/4/5 or something (don't have the card in front of me). Which is nuts.

Generally turn 1 they give themselves PoM and walk once, maybe they Magnetize if there's a valid target. After that? They get where they need to be, they attack anything that gets close, they don't die easily especially if someone (usually Joss or Johana) is carrying Bleeding Edge Tech nearby.

 

Metal Gamin may not be as problematic as Belles or the whole Gremlin faction (joking, mostly) but for 4pts they are pretty stupid - even more so if your opponent has constructs on the board. And because Metal Gamin have HtK they make the Mechanical Rider pretty nuts as well.

[angyi]

it could prove difficult with the limited models i have right now, Ramos's box is not the fastest of crews

Not the fastest but not that slow at all. Speaking of the starter box, Ramos have Magnetism, Langston can buy Imbued Energies atop of his built-in nimble trait, and you can reactivate your Joss two ways - three if your opponent does you the favor of reactivating it himself.

Speed also depends on activation control. As long as you don't lose activation control, you'll have a game vs Perdita because you have reasonable threat ranges. For instance your steamborg can hit someone 3 times from 12' (once) or 2 times from 13' without any help. If you proxy Angelica or the Captain, things get even more serious because they can push him an additional 5' forwards. If you buy Combat Mechanic for Ramos, you can use Electric Fire to soften up hard targets before you chain activate your beater and kill it. You can also buy Seize The Day, so you can enter risky situations at the end of the turn and still have a good chance to go first and finish the job. Etc etc. All these examples are all about activation control, just like your most valuable summoning spell and the new speed bumps/debuffers/schemers you create each turn.

Perdita is a hard nut to crack, but your best bet is to get her crew in melee and try to kill or tarpit as many of them as you can. The more time you give her to shoot at you, the less models you'll have left to retaliate with or collect VP's. I'm not telling you to rush forwards like there's no tomorrow (someone just pointed out that Perdita can't ignore cover and armour at the same time), but you have a melee oriented crew, so you'd better try and deal with your opponents in melee. Generally the Ortega bravos are not that hard to bring down (again, going after Francisco is a good advice), and you'll see how Perdita gets less and less threatening as she loses her crew members.

All that said, Perdita will probably win the killing contest, but your goal is to collect more VP's

Good luck!

 

Edited September 3, 2015 by angyi

[madaxeman]

I did not realize how tough they could be, so they are great for schemes like Turf war were you can hunker them down and just rack up points, but do you ever really attack with them since they get 2 actions and the super defense mode takes 2 actions 1 for Protection of metal and another for defensive stance

 

If your opponent has the misfortune to deploy constructs, Magentize is an armour-ignoring range 16 non-randomizing attack on a base of 8 (one of the best attack stats in the game) that also gives you a 6" free move - all as a zero action. I've had 3 Gamin do 6 points of damage to an enemy construct in a single turn for no AP.... If you are putting them in the healing bubble as well, they become even more impossible to kill

Edited September 3, 2015 by madaxeman

[frostwolf428]

Those metal gamin...wow just WOW now that I see how they work that's nuts.

Angyi, Thats a great idea, I should really put imbued energy on Howard...hehehe I'm just imagining Perditas face as he come charging across the board. After all of this great advise I think with Perdita I may try to bog her down with Howard and Joss and then have my arachnids just place as many token as possible. My friend  that plays Perdita I'm sure will see Howard and react with KILL IT!!! OH GOD! KILL THAT THING NOW!!!! and in turn lose sight of the schemes
My friend that plays Resurs as summoned a construct twice, which confused me but I did not complain more scrap for me  

So why is activation control/ out activating our foe so important? on the wikis I hear about it and on Schemes and stones podcast but no ones really explained it well. I mean I get the general idea more activation means more stuff you can do but...that's about as far as my understanding goes, is it just that simple?

Also anyone have good sources for Ramos lore? I'd love to hear/read some stories with him in it

 

[Freman]

Out activating means that your opponent does their stuff, and then you can keep your heavy hitters or scheme runners to go and do whatever they want without being countered. Say you have 9 models and your opponent has 7. You can match them move for move, but when they run out of activations you could run your biggest monster up to a henchman or even a master and eat him without him being able to do anything about it except hope for some lucky cards.

[Fog]

Activation control is one of the most powerful tools in Ramos's box.  Like Freman says, it enables you can use your monster to cause pain and suffering, but there's more to it.

If you can get yourself up a couple activations (usually pretty easy with Ramos) then you can move spiders here, there, everywhere, tying up important models, working on VPs, denying enemy schemes, and so forth, fairly easily.  Your opponent, meanwhile, is forced to use his more important models to 'clear out' the spider jam.  Scheme runners aren't getting rid of spiders, especially not with arcing screen.  Their big pieces are usually in melee with spiders.  There are spiders blocking charge lanes, spiders camping on objectives, spiders dropping markers.  Your opponent spends the majority of his turn mucking around with spiders.

Then, when all is said and done, you still have Ramos, Joss, Howard, the Rider, whomever.  They're patiently waiting, biding their time.  Every one of your opponent's models is stuck in.  He can't react.  He's probably down cards from trying to deal with spiders. This is where your real turn plays out.  Your brass arachnid gives out reactivate to Joss and Hank.  You summon some more spiders off of scrap your opponent has gleefully left for you.  You summon more spiders.  Maybe you make a swarm to help deny points.  Joss uses imbued energies and takes five actions.  Joss kills anything with five actions.  Hank uses imbued energies and takes somewhere between seven and nine actions.  Nothing survives that.  If you don't need to murder anything you instead put down four scheme markers with him. Honestly, you do whatever you want because you're the only one playing the game.

That is why activation control is important.

[frostwolf428]

Awesome guys thanks for the all of the help. That's a really good explanation for activation control, I'm really going to have to keep that I'm with my actions. Now I need more and more practice to to make sure i use all of my units well, last match my brass arachnid did not really do much. I know I know I messed it up but I'll get better at having him in the right spot.

[Fog]

The Brass Badass typically gets one good turn in a given game, and then he tends to turn into a magnetism target and extra scrap marker. He's still worth the hire.

[Breng77]

I play a bit unorthodox as Ramos, but I really recommend Cassandra and malifaux Raptors to go with him in many scheme pools they are just super good.  Beyond that mech rider is amazing as from turn 2 on your crew can possibly summon 5 models each turn, likely averaging around 3.  Which is gross for activation control.

[4554551//]

Ramos was my first master too, and has worked incredibly well for me.

Mobile toolkit is probably your best first buy. Moving it out 8" in front of joss, charging in and turning it into 2 scrap to turn into 2/3 spiders, is as good as it can get.

I've also found the brass arachnid competes with Ramos for high tomes, and needs uncomfortable positioning at the best of times.

Switched to essence of power, and haven't looked back. All ramos does is cast, so positive flips and +1CA are a lot more impressive than they seem at first glance.

 

Perdita I've not struggled too much against taking a more aggressive route, but what I'd like to ask is how do you Ramos players deal with Mei Feng. Between her armor penetration and vent steam, I just can't seem to touch her. I typically face her with Chiaki and Toshuro, plus the damned trapper. Traps on key points, trapping big guys, getting through my armor and summoning off my scrap markers. I feel totally helpless against her as both Ramos and raspy.

[Fog]

That sounds like the exact problem a reactivated Langston handles like a dream.

[Bengt]

I've also found the brass arachnid competes with Ramos for high tomes, and needs uncomfortable positioning at the best of times.

That's what Rewire is for, any 10 to get one Reactivate.

[Rurouni Benshin]

That sounds like the exact problem a reactivated Langston handles like a dream.

Having Langston reactivated alone won't make up for what Mei Feng can do though.  Sure, he dishes out a lot of damage, but in return, he's not exactly the most resilient model either, especially if it's against Mei Feng.  Speaking from experience, I know Kang could make short work of him alone.  With the "Hard Worker" upgrade, there aren't many constructs or undead models that will last long against him.

I've also found the brass arachnid competes with Ramos for high tomes, and needs uncomfortable positioning at the best of times.

That's what Rewire is for, any 10 to get one Reactivate.

True, however part of the problem with the BA is the positioning required for him.  It usually means he's got to sit around for a turn or two to reactivate someone, and you're not always afforded the luxury of being able to sit still with your models.  It's situationally helpful, I'll give it that, but I'd be tempted to try the Essence of Power with Ramos once too.

[Fog]

I played against Mei Saturday at the final table in a tournament. I scored assassinate on turn 2 using Langston with imbued energies and an arachnid. He activated last, used two actions to pull around a building and two more to charge a "completely safe" Mei Feng with +2 armor. She died on the second decapitate. My second activation took Kang to hard to kill.

After that much work, who cares that he gets taken down. Even if he just took out the master, that's worth the points.

[Fog]

Next time, though, I may kill Kang first.  His aura was awful.

[frostwolf428]

What do people us for upgrades with his crew? One i was running a lot at first was bleeding edge tech but its says minion constructs get regen...so...only my steam arachnids would get it? I proxy-ed The Captain and he is great to use, his 5 inch push is just SO good. Fun story Howard with imbued energy killed Seamus in one activation and a dead doxy, my opponent forgot he had nimble. As anyone tried running Gunsmiths with Ramos? and how do people feel about mole-men as scheme runners?