Struggle to get a win

[Baron_EvilD]

Been playing Malifaux for about a year and a half but only in the last 4/5 months have I got actively in to it as a lot of guys at my FLGS are big in to Malifaux and have helped me remember that it can be a fun game. My win to lose ratio is shocking though with only a handful of wins (mainly using Kirai or Molly) and a lot of losses (mainly Nico...never won with Nico). I'm wondering if there is anything I can try to do to boost my overall odds of winning. Most games I play now I'm only losing by 1 or 2 points.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The schemes and stones podcast just did a good episode on Nicodem that might help.

[Baron_EvilD]

Where can I find the podcasts?

[asrian]

Schemes and Stones - http://schemesandstones.podbean.com

 

Edited September 2, 2015 by asrian

[asrian]

EvilD, just as an example, make a list, and give reasoning behind it and plan of use. Maybe I or others can tweak your crew selection or your potential use of models. 

 

Also, what I tell people I show the game, at the start of every turn look at the strat at your chosen schemes and think of what you need to do to achieve them...Every Turn.

 

Deployment: Standard

Strategy: Turf War

Schemes: ALitS, Distract, Breakthrough, Cursed Object, Murder Protege

[Baron_EvilD]

Thanks asrian, for the above example (assuming 50ss) I would take Nicodem with the Undertaker upgrade and his Vulture, Mortimer with My Favorite Shovel and Corpse Bloat, Izamu with Unnerving Aura, 2 Punk Zombies and 2 Crooligan's giving me 1 additional soul stone for Nico's pool.

 

I know if my opponent has taken Murder Protege then they will be coming for Izamu which take some 'heat' off the rest of my crew. The Crooligans are in their for me to try and spam out scheme markers for Breakthrough which I tend to not reveal but just go for numbers of markers. I would probably also take Cursed Object on the basis that I'm a very combat crew and need to get up close and personal anyway. I really like the combo of giving Mortimer My Favorite Shovel and Corpse Bloat as turn 1 I take action Found a Bone for 2ap to place a corpse marker in base contact (assuming my deck allows me) and with Corpse Bloat I can take the 0 action You Don't Need a Spleen...Right? in order to give me a corpse marker (at the cost of 3 damage). With him having regenerate +1 he will start to heal turn 2. This gives me a chance if I have a high card in hand to stone to add crow to summon another minion to come back at full health using the 2nd marker with Nico's Undertaker upgrade such as a Hanged or another Punk Zombie.

[Sklertic]

I would not only take 1 upgrade on your master. Undertaker combos neatly with maniacal laugh for example.

As for playing Nico, I usually summon 1 or 2 models a round if possible (cards, counters) and then hand out slow or fast, preferably to the enemy heavy hitters.

Giving Mortimer 4ss worth of upgrades is also excessive. i usually take one or the other, but mostly the spleen one, as it is reliable and it can be healed up again.

I can recommend flesh constructs and nurses, as they provide tarpits and buffs/debuffs for your crew. Canine remains also fuel your corpse machine and are excellent scheme runners, 

[Freman]

With Mortimer, if you use the "you don't need a spleen" ability, and "find a bone" so you've used up all your AP, gained two corpse markers, and finished his activation, if the Nurse heals him with "take your meds" does his paralysis wear off at the end of the turn, so you can take his normal activation in the next turn (generating another two markers)? 

[asrian]

Forgive my lack of specifics as I have only played against Nico (quite a lot), never with him so don't know all the upgrade names.

 

For Nico I'd take Maniacal laugh and the upgrade that allows you to companion into another model. The ability to turn corpses into zombies means no one can steal your corpse counters and when you summon off them you get to draw cards from it. The companion model can then activate, which is quite powerful off fresh summoned models.

 

Mortimer really only needs the spleen upgrade.

 

I wouldn't hire punk zombies, instead hire belles, nurses, or constructs...hell, always hire at least one belle. Lures are just too damn useful, even on your own models. Belle walks, then lures Nico, saving him an AP. Summon Punk Zombies instead. 

Keep a few extra SS..even up to 7. Most will be used for Suits for Nico's summons.

Crooligans are great. You can accomplish any scheme marker objectives with them. In this pool they'd be great for all, but especially ALitS, Breakthrough, and Curse Object (run in, curse an already activated enemy model who you're not likely to kill that turn anyway, then port/place away so the opponent can't curse/distract you back.

[asrian]

With Mortimer, if you use the "you don't need a spleen" ability, and "find a bone" so you've used up all your AP, gained two corpse markers, and finished his activation, if the Nurse heals him with "take your meds" does his paralysis wear off at the end of the turn, so you can take his normal activation in the next turn (generating another two markers)? 

No. He'd end his actiation (making ccorpses). Nurse would activate next, heal/paralyze. He'd be paralyzed at the start of his next activation.

 

[Sackville]

My thoughts are that I'd be hesitant about taking so many melee beaters with Distract and Cursed Object in the pool, every low value model you engage with Izamu or the Punks can opt to interact and you're not guaranteed to kill them fast enough to clear or avoid the condition. For similar reasons, I wouldn't be too worried about summoning elite models in at full health. Two Necropunks with their HtK aren't nearly as scary as a Punk Zombie but could easily be worth more VP. Focusing on cheaper models will also help with activation advantage, which is going to be important for scoring Cursed Object.

That would also make me think about taking Maniacal Laugh on Nico. The interaction between his I Can Use That! on Undertaker and summoning off of Mindless Zombies is already very strong, and if you have the opportunity for it durdling some zombies in the backfield is pretty safe. Your opponent can't really score off them in any way and they might even interfere with a model running Breakthrough (although don't count on it).

I'd drop a Punk Zombie or two and bring at least one Belle. It's a durable Turf War model, can move Izamu around, and it can break up or cause engagements which looks like it will be important in this scheme pool. Another option might be a Nurse, especially since it's something you can't summon in. They can potentially keep a weak enemy paralyzed while you siphon points off of them and they also plays pretty nicely with Izamu, although they're a little fragile for Turf War. The Canine Remains is also a good idea, and can take some corpse counter generation pressure off of Mortimer.

Also Mortimer's Chatty aura looks like it could do a lot of work in this game, with so many interaction based schemes and lots of models likely to bunch up in the middle. Obviously you'll want to keep him alive anyway, but just keep in mind that sometimes he might actually need his spleen for one more turn (which is another selling point for the Nurse. Mortimer's Chatty still works even if he's paralyzed).

So -2 Punk Zombies, -1 Shovel, +1 Belle, +1 Nurse, +1 Canine Remains, +1 Maniacal Laugh, and +1 stone (still a little light on stones for a summoner). Basically, I'm suggesting the Hamelin approach and just overwhelming the other guy with chaff instead of going for the throat. You might need to switch gears if the opponent brings someone like Criid or Rasputina, but in most cases a big pile up in the center where you've got Mortimer hiding behind a bunch of zombie fodder is going to be way in your favor.

[Freman]

With Mortimer, if you use the "you don't need a spleen" ability, and "find a bone" so you've used up all your AP, gained two corpse markers, and finished his activation, if the Nurse heals him with "take your meds" does his paralysis wear off at the end of the turn, so you can take his normal activation in the next turn (generating another two markers)? 

No. He'd end his actiation (making ccorpses). Nurse would activate next, heal/paralyze. He'd be paralyzed at the start of his next activation.

 

Is there any way to get around that, or is best to just keep going as long as he can with his regen ability and then heal and accept the paralyze when his wounds are too low for any more corpse marker generation?

[AtomicKeen]

Chiaki the Niece can remove conditions. I think she might be just what you're looking for. 

[Freman]

He starts with 11 wounds. In the first turn he loses 3 to get a corpse marker, down to 8, in the second turn he regenerates 1, to 9, then loses 3 to get another corpse marker, down to 6, turn three, plus 1 to 7, and then minus 3 to 4, turn four, plus 1 to 5, minus 3 to 2. Turn five, usually being the last turn of the game, he can just find a bone if it's really needed.

I guess it doesn't require any working around as a potential nine extra corpse markers a game, produced from nothing, is more than enough to swing the game in favour of Nico.

[Freman]

Chiaki the Niece can remove conditions. I think she might be just what you're looking for. 

Thanks. I didn't think of her.

[AtomicKeen]

of course. at six stones, she is an enforcer at a bargain. When playing undead, I often forget about the living models i can bring too, and they tend to be very useful!

[Sklertic]

With Chiaki you also have two models who are very capable in handing out slows.

[MEGAHORSE]

I had many issues with Nico at first as well. I'm 4 games in and really getting the hang of him. The problem is that he has so many options that it's overwhelming to try them all and not know if it's your playstyle or the option, but I've found a good majority of the above advice to be valid.

• Maniacal Laugh and Undertaker are mandatory for me. There is no question. For 2 points, you get moveable corpses that the opponent cannot remove until they kill the Mindless Zombies. Zombies can tie up opposing models in melee if you're playing strats like Squatters Rights. In addition, they become mobile without the Vulture, allowing you to run another Totem if you'd like. Graveyard Spirit is popular to protect Izamu and friends. In addition, with that (0) to turn your corpses into Zombies, you then use your (1) Summoning ability targeting one. It is sacrificed. You draw a card, then get your model. You draw off of Undertaker because the Mindless Zombies now count as Undead and Corpse Markers. Synergy! The biggest boon here being you can replenish your hand after summoning.
• Reaper Grin is situational but I like it in the early turns the most to provide Nico and his bubble with Soft Cover against shooty lists. 
• Never hire Punks, Hanged, Students, etc. Summon them. 
• Hire a Belle. Nurses are cool too
• Moritmer with Corpse Bloat. Doesnt really need his Shovel, but it can be nice to allow him to move and Find a Bone.
• Keep Nico and Mortimer in the back lines. Nico only needs to be up far enough to catch his beatsticks like Punks in his 6" aura of + flips. 

Edited September 2, 2015 by gromgrom

[Rob Lo]

With Nico, always think of your initial crew as "What do I need to get the corpse engine running, how do I ensure I can use those corpses every time I want to, what do I need that I can't summon in with Nico, what do I need to assist those first two groups do what they're supposed to do, where they're supposed to do it?"

So definitely things like what have been mentioned.. Mort to make corpses. if he doesn't do much else than that, it feels weird at first, like you're missing out on something he could be doing, but really the corpses are enough. Corpses are great, but without the high cards and crows they're nothing, so the upgrade that gives you cards when things die is great, and you want stones to burn as crows for the summons, almost always a full 7 cache, maybe 6. You can summon in regular stuff, punks, belles, students. You can't summon in Izamu, Yin, Bette, Chiaki, nurses. So spend a good chunk of your 50 on those guys, but only if you can answer 'What is this model going to do to support getting points for this particular strat/scheme". Finally, you want to help those guys do what they do. Izamu is slow, Nico's AP is better spent handing out fast or summoning. So bring a Belle, help move them up the board. This is a case where their usefulness in your starting crew outweighs the idea of waiting to summon them in later. Maybe bring a crooligan for From the Shadows into a great position, all kinds of things. The terrain, strats, schemes, opposing faction will make different models worth hiring at different times.

If you have an opponent that's willing, one possible idea is to pick strats & schemes, then come up with 2 lists that could work, but focus on different ways to accomplish them. Maybe one where you're going for the Cursed Object and Breakthrough, the other where you go for Murder Protege and Breakthrough. Then play 2 games, back to back, one with each list. Spend some time afterwards talking about how it went.

And finally, the best 2 minutes you can spend to improve your gameplay is, after a game, ask your opponent, "What were you afraid I was going to do, that I didn't?"

[Fireuser]

With Nico, always think of your initial crew as "What do I need to get the corpse engine running, how do I ensure I can use those corpses every time I want to, what do I need that I can't summon in with Nico, what do I need to assist those first two groups do what they're supposed to do, where they're supposed to do it?"

 

I disagree.  I find it is possible to have greater success using him as a buffer/debuffer/healer at the beginning, and then summoning to replenish losses if your models die, or to use the corpses of your enemies.  Plus you don't end up with a large portion of your crew only being used to make bodies.

The Corpse Engine mindset can be a trap.

[MEGAHORSE]

With Nico, always think of your initial crew as "What do I need to get the corpse engine running, how do I ensure I can use those corpses every time I want to, what do I need that I can't summon in with Nico, what do I need to assist those first two groups do what they're supposed to do, where they're supposed to do it?"

 

I disagree.  I find it is possible to have greater success using him as a buffer/debuffer/healer at the beginning, and then summoning to replenish losses if your models die, or to use the corpses of your enemies.  Plus you don't end up with a large portion of your crew only being used to make bodies.

The Corpse Engine mindset can be a trap.

I made this mistake at first, and took canine remains to try to dig up more corpses, which I think is a huge trap. I think Mortimer on his own works fine for this, then play him as you said, as support. 

[Paddywhack]

I will second the corpse engine trap. Try to avoid thinking of how any models can I summon a turn and how can I get corpse markers. Get a couple of corpse markers down if you feel the need (I don't even take Mortimer much) and then focus purely on your VPs. Do you need to use 2-3 models AP to create a corpse and then bring in a new model (likely to get into combat) or is there a better use of that AP to get you VPs right now?

Corpse Engine is a huge trap for Nicodem Players and many opponents expect it. 

[chris_havoc]

With Nicodem the models you have in your Summoning pool can make a huge difference. What can you Summon and how willing are you to splurge on new models? Hanged and Necropunks are very good with him, as is Toshiro. I agree with the above though you don't have to put Love Thy Master (Companion Upgrade) on Nico himself if Mortimer has a space open. I do like to put Corpse Bloat on Toshiro though, he can be healed by Nicodem. Having him and Mortimer generating Corpses makes Summoning way more efficient.

[WLSFK]

And finally, the best 2 minutes you can spend to improve your gameplay is, after a game, ask your opponent, "What were you afraid I was going to do, that I didn't?"

Much good advice here, but Rob's is the best. Good call

[nunorod]

I haven't made that many games really and always played with noobs like me but there are a few things I already got.

Really Really focus on schemes and strategy. It's really easy to loose focus and try to go for kills, but Kirai and Molly are not about kills per se.

Still have to try Molly, but Kirai likes to keep things close usually, so it's great for things like protect territory, or plant evidence because iKyrio and spirits, for turf war, breakthrough (Ikyrio or sipirts again). But not so great with quarters or kill schemes I think.

Last game I played I think I chose my master poorly and went for Kirai, but i focused on objectives and that handed me the game.