MEGAHORSE

I've always wanted to run a squad of Gaki and some master like Yan Lo or Kirai to enhance their abilities. However, they're just too squishy and unreliable. We just have more powerful and solid minions. As others have stated, they're merely an afterthought and mostly just spawned via Kirai or Datsue ba triggers. Much like with McMourning, trading one of their models for one of yours is a huge advantage. I personally only have two based and painted. I've only needed that many. However, getting the box isn't terrible... just I would prioritize models like The Hanged and Shikome over Gaki when using Kirai due to the fact they are incredible summons. If you have your best Kirai summons, nab the Gaki next.

I feel as if Rogue Necromancy is much more of a niche piece than it has ever been for us now that we have more options for high point enforcer beaters. I find he's great in those niches, however, like in a Hunting Party Yan Lo/McM list. I like him with Yan Lo for Pack (helps keep Yan Lo mobile without using AP) and Yan can keep him topped off. It's not competitive, but it sure is fun! Izamu is an all comers beater. He is incredible, just be careful around pieces that ignore armor!

I will have to give it another shot. In my experience, needing a 9+ and still trying to beat down with models is very situational and requires an optimal setup, so often opt for the attrition gameplan

Izamu is probably the best, but Valedictorian provides more utility and doesnt require as much babysitting. I've yet to field Archie. I personally find the Undead Crowning to be a waste of an upgrade and too conditional. If I have a high card, I could instead be flooding the board with more punk zombies/Flesh constructs/Hanged/Necropunks to accomplish my schemes, as opposed to giving + flips to Ca actions. Especially given how poor of Ca actions we have in faction currently IMO.

I'm excited to try Vincent for generating additional corpses alongside the Emissary I tried Anna and wasn't impressed, mostly because she doesnt jive with anything he does besides being controlly and potentially generating mindless zombies. The fact she is living means she cannot get + flips to Df duels nor be healed by Decay. If she could, she would be a damn near auto include along with the Emissary. Rush of Magic is great for cycling throguh the deck, but I still prefer Phillip for that.

i've tried him in Horror molly and he's ok... I need to start taking him as a scheme runner as others have suggested. I'll probably run him with Reva the first few games to make sure she's topped off on wounds while he runs schemes. He's probably the model/box I most regret purchasing besides the Canine Remains (I never get to summon them with McM too often, and one has usually been enough. To top it off, I find they're our worst in faction scheme runners/low point models for their cost.)

Have to agree here. Tara doesnt get enough out of it to justify its cost, and the mindless zombies are a nobo. I havent seen a reason to use him with McMourning except to make the Autopsy's guns more accurate with the generic upgrade.

From Fetid. It depends. What are you trying to do with them? SH5 isnt very accurate, and their main use is as a somewhat durable 4 point harassing model, one that can apply poison at range. The issue I have with them with Molly is that they largely are useful in hunting scheme runners down, as they cannot shoot into melee with any guarantee you will hit your target.

I've been using them with the Emissary in this way, and they become much more effective and become a great gunline for protecting a piece of the table, and once they get close enough to engage you, throw a Punk Zombie in the way

Also note that Spirits have just been released in plastic for the first time very recently, and many dont have them available yet to play. Horrors are also much easier to play, as they have no complicated synergies, and support the "kill everything" playstyle that new players find easier to grasp. Not that Horror Molly is bad, but she more of a one trick pony in that regard.

There are many ways to generate scheme markers outside of just using 1AP interacts Phillip can turn opposing markers into corpses Emissary can turn corpses into markers The Drowned/Crooked Men drop scheme markers upon death Datsue Ba has an action on Spirit Whispers to have friendly spirits within a range to drop scheme markers when killed. Among others. I find Phillip incredibly useful with most masters due to her ability to just slam through your deck to find the suits/numbers you need, especially with kirai who wants Masks for her trigger to move damage to a friendly spirit within 2", her 0 to teleport to a friendly spirit, Crows for summoning, etc. This doesnt even take into account the triggers on Datsue ba's ranged attack to kill a model and summon a Gaki/Onyro. The longer I play the game, the higher I value cards and AP. Both are interchangable depending on the scenario: You dont always want to plant and eat markers each turn. But the ability to do so can dramatically change the course of the game. Phillip also brings other useful abilities to the table. When pushed or pulled, he moves an extra 2", and his Walk of 6 to begin with allows him the ability to scheme run and hunt opposing runners, and with Ml6, he can hit fairly accurately (with some great triggers!) I also dont mind summoning models off Phillip late in the game when he has outlived his usefulness. His large wound pool is pretty useful in that aspect. In addition, he is both an Undead and a Spirit, allowing us to carry Take Back the Night, and allow us to summon Ikyro when he is struck near Kirai. I'm biased, however. I love Phillip and take him in many of my crews, moreso than any other model (sans Belles or Nurses). EDIT: I also want to bring up the idea that baiting your opponent into thinking you're playing certain schemes based on your scheme marker placement is an important consideration.

Pretty much all of the W3 resser models sans Sloth. He does have his uses, but doesnt seem to do enough for me at 8ss to justify him over other support henchmen/enforcers at this time.

I think a singleton Nurse is mandatory with McM, and as such, Chiaki is a natural fit to prompt Wp duels so you're not just all in on defense duels, as well as healing on a ram, condition removal (even on the opponents) which can be combined with the Nurse's crow trigger to heal your models to full for 2AP. Given Shenlong's tricky playstyle and ability to take all comers, you need to force him to activate and react to you and not be able to take advantage of his numerous ways to abuse conditions. A few autopsies can apply poison all around and Rafkin/Shikomes can mop up models poisoned. Force him to react to you, McMourning is scary and incredibly fast. Focus on accomplishing your schemes and keeping them busy using AP to remove poison or force it around. Just take care with the autopsies. Use belles to pull his models out of his bubble and force him to play on your terms, Expunge to grab flesh constructs, etc.

I think she can, depending on the scenario. She can use her 0 to move your spirits around, Weigh Sins to summon more models, or her melee attack to ignore armor when against arcanists/outcasts/nb/etc. She's not an autoinclude, but if I need chi fast and she can help outside of that, I'm probably going to take her. Yin is the only potential "auto include" i could mention for Yan, given she does a little of everything well. Plus, Gnawing fears is downright evil.

They should all be used specific to what you need Vulture has some staying power with its high Def, and is useful for ferrying corpses upfield, allowing Nicodem to cast through him, Walk 10 to enagage models for Interference/hunting scheme runners is incredibly useful as well. Grave Spirit I find best in scenarios where you have a high point model (Emissary/Izamu/Valedictorian) who you want to hold an area and not move far. I used to take him all the time. Now I lean more toward the Vulture. Malifaux Child is best for Poison/Support builds IMO, as being able to hand out fast on 7's is pretty strong.

Most of our summonable minions are overcosted as hires, but fine as summons given their point cost. Then again, if you spend 7-8 points for a silver bullet vs some crew, and it pans out, it's worth it. But they're exactly that: silver bullets. Best as summons so you can summon them in as needed given the scenario and the opposing crew you face.

Shucks! Well at least I didnt cheat my opponent, as I think I only managed one swipe a turn, but it definitely makes him less abusable! My goal is to really work at Yan Lo as a Resser and 10T. I think with Ressers, he can abuse all of our Wp duels and spirit synergies and play a, generally, stronger list than if we went Toshiro with Punk Zombies/Ashigaru, but I've yet to test fully. I personally was just excited to sort of make it work. I'm sure with a Yin in the list to get Gnawing Fears off, one could do some incredible movement manipulation between the Belles, Yan, etc. Yeah, Fortify, when discussing with friends, doesnt seem too great outside of schemes where Yan Lo may be in danger (Assassinate, Neutralize the Leader (or whatever the GG2016 scheme is called)) Are you referring to the Shadow Emissary? I dont have its card proxied up, just the Carrion. I've been hearing amazing things about it, but am I able to take the Shadow Emissary and still declare Ressers? (Again I've not ever seen the card haha!) I just noticed, for whatever reason, Yan Lo didnt have a Carrion Emissary upgrade (But Tara did) which was kind of depressing to me, but assumed perhaps the Shadow had the upgrade I was referring to.

First time poster in this topic! I recently got Yan Lo painted up and fielded for two games, and I think partially due to how well the GG2016 schemes and strategies suit him, I find myself enamored with his tricks and lists. I found those strategies and schemes hurt Molly the most, and i've yet to field her! So I've been giving Yan a good kick around. I've yet to utilize Datsue Ba with Yan Lo, but she's currently my favorite henchmen and her potential with him is just astounding, between Seishin, spirit synergies, passing Adversary out, and summoning Gaki! I ran this list last night for fun vs my friend and his Von Shill list (his first foray into outcasts). I built it to move up the field quickly given Izamu and Yan's slow movespeed. The idea here was to play Yan a bit more upfield and more aggressively. My problem was I faced a shooty list, so for my second of two games, Brutal Khakkhara was useless due to not being able to grab his 3ss Ascendant Upgrade. Even then, with max Chi, it wouldnt have been much better than just swinging CA8. Foritfy the Spirit is ideal for Frame for Murder on Izamu, particularly since this player loves to murder Izamu, so I fed him Izamu to get my points, revived him later in turn 4, after I realized HEY, Chi counts for his ability to resurrect Ancestors! So I only need an 8Tome over 11Tome! Incredible! I never had much chance to use his ability to raise his Def/Wp off of his chi due to not needing to: Incorporeal and impossible to wound meant his plink damage was doing 1 damage anyway with no relevant triggers, although I can see where its useful. Much like Brutal Kakakaahahara, it's very... niche. But worth taking just in case. Soul Porter was here to be a beater, but mostly to help move Yan and Izamu. Dead Rider to pull models away from the GG2016 Turf War marker to deny scoring. He also benefits from Instill Youth. I originally only thought Yan could heal Spirits or Ancestors, but THAT IS NOT THE CASE WOW. I also have only fielded it once, so I figure i'd give it another shot. It's certainly powerful, but I'm not overly impressed with it, given the only real reason to run him is his Reap ability, as a generality. For 12ss, I think Datsue ba/Chiaki/whatever else would have been a better choice. Izamu as an Ancestor so i can at least do some things with Spirit based abilities. He's always merely ok due to how many models ignore armor or damage reduction anymore. I;ve never cared for him but in themed lists. He almost never makes up his points at his best. Rogue Necro with Pack is utterly insane with Izamu and I love it. So basically, with Instill Youth to keep him topped off for 3 headed, he was able to weather alot of pain and paralyze, murder, and cause general mayhem. In addition, Lightning Dance is ideal for setting up his version of "Pounce", which triggers whenever a nearby enemy model fails a Wp duel within 6". I usually just danced the model b2b with the rogue, then danced yan lo out of the fray and the model to the other side of Rogue Necro's base for another pounce. I love it! In addition, Pack allows our slower models like Izamu/Yan Lo/Soul Porter to take additional walks, which is never a bad thing. Belles were there to get Rogue out of danger off Stalk, and trigger willpower duels. As well as just being belles, which are busted. My first game, not using the list above, didnt go as well vs lillith, as she kept me choked off from scoring the entire game. I played too defensively and Yan Lo prefers to be near the action, much like Molly. But unlike Molly, he seems much more versatile and isnt harmed as much by Hunting Party being a face card. I look forward to more games with him, I just wanted to chime in and gush over the Rogue Necromancy I've never been super thrilled with it as a hire until now (Of course I've tried it with Seamus too which is pretty fun, and I should give another shot)

On the other side of the coin, the emissary also does alot more than make Mindless Zombies. While he doesnt have Chatty (which is pretty niche to begin with, you need to have scheme markers matter, you need to have him within 6" of an area the enemy would want to plant the markers in, etc), the Emissary can also help move your models forward with his aura that increases their Walk by 1. I think both movement enhancing abilities are good. Mortimer's is better in the amount of extra inches you get, and that it's a free move, but you have to move directly toward the model shot if you wish to take advantage, which can be bad versus masters like Raspy/Sonnia. The Emissary's is also not without its faults. It's merely an extra 1", but it doesnt hamper where you want to move. You just need to stay nearby to take advantage. It's weak, but helps. The Emissary can also apply poison at range if he needs to, or just shoot normally, buff your minions, etc depending on your upgrade (MCM or Generic) I think the Emissary, being a few points less, is better as an all purpose solution in a vaccum, but Mortimer is definitely better when he matters! edit: To reiterate, I'm not saying Mortimer is a bad choice. I'm not saying he's useless for this scenario or any others. I'm merely trying to throw out the idea of the Emissary as another valid choice, particularly in a vaccum , and saving you 2ss, where Mortimer succeeds more, in your scenario, in specific scheme/strategy picks. I will definitely try both sometime soon, and perhaps update the topic on which worked better for me!

Joe Wood uses something similar with Kirai, albiet minus the Mortimer for activation control in the backfield. However he just uses the Canine to find a Bone instead of Mortimer (As mortimer is ALOT of SS investment), however this comes at the disadvantage of needing 9+ crows without the ability to stone for crows to find a bone with your dogs. However, while this can work with McMourning, all the points spend on Mortimer are a tough sell. One could also use the Emissary instead, using the Shards and Mindless Zombies to create dogs/eat zombies or dogs for soulstones, which I wanna try soon! Still, a very fun strategy!

Usually you dont hire what you can summon, and while this isnt a hardline rule, it just allows you to better summon what you really need during the game, and take bigger more specific enforcers/minions/henchmen for the schemes and strats. I personally occasionally summon Onyro with kirai. It's not often, as usually I summon the hanged, The Drowned, or Night Terrors due to how difficult they are to remove from the table and their effectiveness. Onyro are great when you need to spread out Adversary and/or tie some other minions/peons up. Theyre painfully average as well in melee and have little to their defense for their point cost. I never summon in Gaki except off of Datsueba/Kirai's triggers on their ranged attacks, so far. Groups of Gaki do well together, but aiming for that is a weaker strategy than just taking advantage of those triggers and summoning in The Hanged to deal damage/stop healing and the Drowned as tarpits, both of which do that job better than Gaki by far. However, dont forget about those crow triggers on Kirai and Datsue ba's ranged attacks to get them, as a free 5 point model that can heal itself is still incredibly useful for activation control and stripping medium to high cards from your opponent's hand/deck.

Yep, thanks again. I always make comments like that without reading the summon list! I just assume she can since Nicodem can

Belles are pretty useless as a summon with Molly unless you absolutely need a Lure before it gets killed. Def/Wp 4 with hard to wound means it is going to be 1-2 shot pretty quick, so if I would ever summon one, it would be to get a key Lure off, by summoning it, then using Molly's 0 action to give it a free 1AP action. But I havent had to yet. With Horror Molly, its nearly always been Punk Zombies. Necropunks are another cool model I'd like to utilize with Molly's summoning due to their ability to heal themselves, and having hard to wound and hard to kill. While they're pretty poor in melee, even with flurry, if they survive, they can activate, Leap, and walk away to scheme run or harass gunners. I am an idiot, I need to read cards.

This, while you can make do without Mortimer, he is clearly by and large one of the better pieces to take with Nicodem regardless of scheme/strategy/terrain due to how powerful Nicodem's summoning mechanic is. Sort of like Sybelle moving Molly around, you can do without, but you lose quite a bit. With Wave 3 giving us the Emissary who can make Mindless Zombies, I think you can move away from Mortimer, but turn 1 you wont have those easy corpses without some other shenanigans. I think one could run the Nurse+Chiaki+some other model that can run with Corpse Bloat instead of Mortimer, like Sybelle or Sebastian, for example, who cost less points and may be more useful otherwise. You still lose the Corpse off Found a Bone though. I have to highly agree with you Jonah on Necrotic King. Make use of Nicodem's strengths rather than shore up a weakness. It helps casts and gives you another + flip to damage, but for 2ss and a 1 action off Nicodem, you'd be better off making another Punk zombie to get 3 swings in over this. Largely, it seems most Nicodem crews dont need + flips to cast actions, and if you'd want some, run with the Emissary and his generic upgrade, which does + flips for all minion attack actions (Sorry chiaki!) within 4" as a passive aura, requiring no actions or soulstones. The upgrade [Necrotic King] on first glance for me was always super juicy, and I'd take it and never use it. I always, ALWAYS, take Undertaker (for the insane card draw, whether your opponent is killing your models, or you're summoning off your mindless zombies!). The other effect on it, Patchwork, is situational since that corpse marker could be made into a mindless zombie to be used for damage prevention with Reaper Grin, more activations, and more things to summon off of! Then I take Maniacal Laugh for Muahaha obviously, making numerous additional models to activate, and turning on Undertaker, and making it his premier 0 action to use. Proper positioning being key for it to catch as many corpses in the 8" aoe as possible. Then, Reaper Grin. This I take to prevent anyone trying to murder Nicodem, as he can sacrifice a friendly undead within 5" to reduce damage from an attack action to 0 (crow trigger). In addition, it offers The Fog, requiring an 8 of crows or greater to grant a small bubble of soft cover. It's also situational, but can make a bad deployment a bit better and is well worth taking for 1ss if you expect a ranged crew to hamper your ability to move upfield or you fear assassination attempts. It's the flexible upgrade for me, as Undertaker and Maniacal Laugh are pretty much required to make his engine just silly edit: fixed some grammatical mistakes, weird wording, and sentence structure for clarity.

Speaking of, I did that exact thing in my last game with her vs Pandora. Night Terror failed its horror duel and was paralyzed, at 1 wound. I swirled it into summoning range for a Seishin, then summoned a Hanged off of it. Considering next activation it was as good as dead, I'd say it was well worth it!