Jordon Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 It seems like the arcanists have quite a few cases of counter spell floating around. Raspy has it built in and Ramos, Ironsides and all of our henchmen can get it via upgrades. It's one of those abilities that seems very situational so I figured I'd ask other people their experience. Raspy get's it for free so I don't really count her. Same with Ramos, as I feel like you get his upgrade for his overdrive and counter spell is just a bonus. My real dilemma is what situation would you take it as an upgrade? I just feel like its rarely relevant, and there are a lot of spells that just don't seem affected from the loss of a built-in suit. The best use I've gotten out of it is the lure immunity, but other then that I can't really recall it affecting much. Maybe it's just that I haven't seen where it can very effective yet, but that's why I want to hear other peoples experiences. On a side note, I do still think the upgrade is quite valid with the bonuses of the oxfordian mage upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I like having the option of loading up on it against ressers to cut down the options from Belles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I take it with Sonnia to protect people from Lure. Should be worthwhile on some of the Arcanists as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 While we're on this topic, we had a question come up regarding what actually counts as printed suits. The situation that came up was Misaki trying to trigger Assassinate on Hannah. Hannah has an ability that is basically counterspell that also works against Sh and Ml. Misaki needs two crows to trigger Assassinate. She has none printed on her attack, but once she runs out of soul stones, her Risky Ventures-ability adds a crow to all her Ml attacks. Does the crow added by Risky Ventures count as a "suit printed in the Ml", and will counterspell remove it or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Suit printed in the Ml is exactly that: A suit printed in the attack stat, so Lady Justice's attack stat of Ml7 . Risky Ventures is an ability printed on the front side of her card. Even if it was a Ca, it wouldn't be denied by Counterspell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Suit printed in the Ml is exactly that: A suit printed in the attack stat, so Lady Justice's attack stat of Ml7 . Risky Ventures is an ability printed on the front side of her card. Even if it was a Ca, it wouldn't be denied by Counterspell. The wording on Hannah | Nether Flux is a bit more vague than Counterspell. "...any suits associated with their Ca, Sh, and Ml stats." Risky Ventures say "...gains + to Ml." which I guess could be seen as an association. I like to think that Nether Flux refers to suits printed in the action header, but I'm not sure if that is just my assumption that it's a version of Counterspell or the actual intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 The wording on Hannah | Nether Flux is a bit more vague than Counterspell. "...any suits associated with their Ca, Sh, and Ml stats." Risky Ventures say "...gains + to Ml." which I guess could be seen as an association. I like to think that Nether Flux refers to suits printed in the action header, but I'm not sure if that is just my assumption that it's a version of Counterspell or the actual intent. That is a good question. Could be a distinct effect, or not. I'm as unsure as you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoS Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Against Neverborn or Ressers. Always 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I find the three masters who can take it take it because it's on a card that is really good otherwise. I wouldn't put warding runes on random henchmen in random lists though, unless I knew exactly what I was walking into before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joediamond Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Against Neverborn or Ressers. Always Although Arcanists might not be a bad pick for it either, if you are expecting lots of offensive spell casting. You can really screw over more offensive casters like Marcus or Rasputina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoS Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 When I play against Nvb and Rezzers I expect tons of lures. If I want my Henchman not being lured, (as Snowy), I use this upgrade. And don't forget Oxfordians!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted August 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 It's just that I hardly find it worth being "potentially" useful when we have access to imbued energies which is guaranteed to be useful. Unless I know for certain that my opponent is bringing lure models, I don't see why I'd take this over imbued energies on my henchmen without the mage bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt.er Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Against Rezzer it`s more or less an auto-pick. If an opponent has Belles, he will bring them on board. That is almost sure. So the advantage is huge for you, except if you want to be lured wich is usually not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 That is a good question. Could be a distinct effect, or not. I'm as unsure as you are. Nether Flux does seem to be a distinct effect, so I think it would ignore all suits that aren't either generated by a card or coming from soulstone use. I don't know if it would work against the "switch chamber" ability Gunsmiths have, or similar abilities in other units (like "reference the field guide" that Freikorpsmann have). She has her own Counterspell of course, which means that units like Belles which require both a crow and mask for Lure which are built in simply can't affect her. They might get a crow or mask on the card, but they can't use soulstones to add the missing suit. I suppose it's the Freikorps way. They might not be the best at any one thing, but they're very good at weakening the things other warbands rely on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Having played Hannah and librarians a lot (in relation to the original question) I find the counterspell most useful against: Neverborn, Ressers, and Outcast (Daw, Levi, Tara, and Hamelin crews all have potentially multiple cast spells, not to mention any that have their own Hannah or Librarians). Other factions have at least one cast master per (Sonnia, Marcus, Raspy. Wong, etc). Overall I find it a very useful ability to have, but wouldn't add it to a crew specifically unless one of the 3 factions I mentioned above were announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joediamond Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 I agree. I think it's more of a "counter pick" than a general option. Like when you take anti-shooting versus Guild or Gremlins. Not to say it's not well worth it's points, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I agree. I think it's more of a "counter pick" than a general option. Like when you take anti-shooting versus Guild or Gremlins. Not to say it's not well worth it's points, but still. That's exactly it, it's a counter. Say you're facing Resser's in a game with; Bodyguard, Murder Protege or Assassinate. Being able to make the relevant target immune to Lure shuts down a fairly common strategy they may well try. I certainly wouldn't take Warding Runes / Under Pressure by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TychoTerziev Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Also it is messes up Whispers from Beyond, which reinforces its usefulness against Ressers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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