Zoraida vs Chiaki, how do you deal with her?

[OSP]

Hi, I wonder if someboy could help me with this problem: How do you deal with Chiaki when you are playing Zoraida?

 

I haven't played against her yet, but on paper it seems very hard to counter. For me Zoraida is mostly about conditions (bewitch and hex) and Chiaki is perfect to counter that. Also, most of my crew is about conditions (nurse and Iggy for the voodoo doll) melee (nephilims and swampfiends) or both (waldgeists).

 

So, I was wondering, in a "typical" Zoraida crew, how do you deal with her?

[Dirial]

a. She cannot remove all the conditions.

 

b. You could just shoot her. With Beckoners for example.

 

c. Challenge (Barbaros) makes targeting the right model a chore (my Witchlings hate him to bits).

[Nical]

I like to use Dirial's A and B. Additionally, you can use chiaki to remove conditions for you by obey.   

[Bengt]

c. Challenge (Barbaros) makes targeting the right model a chore (my Witchlings hate him to bits).

Chiaki are a lot less likely to be hanging around within 8" of Barbie though, all her fun stuff has 10" range.

[Dirial]

Chiaki are a lot less likely to be hanging around within 8" of Barbie though, all her fun stuff has 10" range.

 

Less likely, true. Still, it's a hassle, and it's not like Barbaros only does the one thing.

[zFiend]

Less likely, true. Still, it's a hassle, and it's not like Barbaros only does the one thing.

Wasn't he Nimble too so he can do other things and then just walk closer too to pop up his aura.

[moxypoo]

I've come across Chiaki a few times when playing Zoraida and dealt with her in a few different ways if I'm worried about condition removal.

 

First, I can use things like Hemmed on my own models to put positive conditions on them or push them around or not even use the Voodoo Doll heavily that game.  Alternatively, you can make Chiaki a primary target since she's pretty easy to kill if you have Ca actions. You can also Hem her with the Voodoo Doll and then beat on the Doll or put one of the Nurse's conditions on her so she can't actually remove any conditions.

 

You can also wait to summon the Voodoo Doll/Hem a target until after Chiaki activates, ensuring that you'll get some benefit before having to re-Hem.

[Shadowfane]

I've come across Chiaki a few times when playing Zoraida and dealt with her in a few different ways if I'm worried about condition removal.

 

First, I can use things like Hemmed on my own models to put positive conditions on them or push them around or not even use the Voodoo Doll heavily that game.  Alternatively, you can make Chiaki a primary target since she's pretty easy to kill if you have Ca actions. You can also Hem her with the Voodoo Doll and then beat on the Doll or put one of the Nurse's conditions on her so she can't actually remove any conditions.

 

You can also wait to summon the Voodoo Doll/Hem a target until after Chiaki activates, ensuring that you'll get some benefit before having to re-Hem.

 

Whilst you CAN use Hemmed on your own models, there isn't much point, since the Sewn Fate condition it gives the model specifies that when an enemy Voodoo Doll takes damage/gains a condition, that model also gains it - thus making the use of Hemmed on your own models somewhat pointless... 

[moxypoo]

Whilst you CAN use Hemmed on your own models, there isn't much point, since the Sewn Fate condition it gives the model specifies that when an enemy Voodoo Doll takes damage/gains a condition, that model also gains it - thus making the use of Hemmed on your own models somewhat pointless... 

 

Ah whoops - good catch!  You can still push your own models around by Zoraida interacting with the Doll.  I've found this useful in a couple situations.

[asrian]

I rarely use Bewitch with Zoraida, preferring to go Obey heavy with her and only Summon/Hem enemies that get too close. With my preferred play style I find I get better results from more crew actions vs putting conditions on the opponent.

[zFiend]

I rarely use Bewitch with Zoraida, preferring to go Obey heavy with her and only Summon/Hem enemies that get too close. With my preferred play style I find I get better results from more crew actions vs putting conditions on the opponent.

Sounds like an interesting take from what I've seen when people have played Zoraida.

[Nical]

I agree with Asrian. Zoraida's Conditions are useful, but I think Actions by Obey are better.   

[Ludvig]

Like Asrian, I often use a lot of obeys. With the addition of Mimic's blessing available to all our hitters I just can't refuse to shove big models (backed by waldgeists) down my enemy's throat turn 1.

Back on topic

If Chiaki is the only ancestor she is vulnerable herself - it almost doesn't matter which trigger you get on the nurses meds, she won't be removing conditions. If she has friendly ancestors you can try to put models between them since her abilities require LoS.

Haven't tried it but a beckoner could lure her out of position or probably kill her reasonably fast. If she gets brilliance on chiaki you can follow up with illuminated who have decent damage even after halving it You can also steal enemy cast actions with obey to make her wary of her own crew.

[OSP]

a. She cannot remove all the conditions.

 

b. You could just shoot her. With Beckoners for example.

 

c. Challenge (Barbaros) makes targeting the right model a chore (my Witchlings hate him to bits).

 

Yep, b it's the obvious answer, but what miniatures have CA actions that could do that work?

 

Maybe I'm unlucky but I have a bunch of neverborn models and I think no one of them have that kind of actions. So far I "only" have: Terror tots, young nephilims, mature nephilim, barbaros, lelu, lilitu, coppelius, bad juju, spawn mother, silurids, gupps, waldgeists, black blood shaman and a nurse and mctavish. And I'm thinking  buying a doppleganger and Iggy.

 

I'd rather prefer not buying additional models if I could avoid it.

[Dirial]

Yeah, your missing ranged Ca attackers (besides the Nurse). If you don't want to buy any, option b. falls flat, I fear.

[Adran]

Incite Chiaki, make her activate early in the turn, then you can do all the condition stuff you want once she has activated. Its also handy to make her lose Manipulative so most big beaters can drastically reduce her wounds, even if they are only doing half damage. (And most little beaters can also drastically reduce her wounds as well).

[zFiend]

Incite Chiaki, make her activate early in the turn, then you can do all the condition stuff you want once she has activated. Its also handy to make her lose Manipulative so most big beaters can drastically reduce her wounds, even if they are only doing half damage. (And most little beaters can also drastically reduce her wounds as well).

This is a good piece of advice. Also Iggy only costs 5ss.

[Dirial]

Incite Chiaki, make her activate early in the turn, then you can do all the condition stuff you want once she has activated. Its also handy to make her lose Manipulative so most big beaters can drastically reduce her wounds, even if they are only doing half damage. (And most little beaters can also drastically reduce her wounds as well).

 

I like it.

[OSP]

Incite Chiaki, make her activate early in the turn, then you can do all the condition stuff you want once she has activated. Its also handy to make her lose Manipulative so most big beaters can drastically reduce her wounds, even if they are only doing half damage. (And most little beaters can also drastically reduce her wounds as well).

 

Very good an well played. I really like it.

[Clockwork_Fish]

Personally I wouldn't even try to kill her until Yan Lo is off the board; otherwise she'll just come right back.

 

What you CAN do is obey her to cleanse your own models, and maybe get some healing in to boot from the trigger.  Yin the Penangalan has the mother of all irritating conditions to hand out, and cleansing it with his own model is just going to sting so much.    

 

Remember, making your opponent regret his crew composition is half the fun of Obey.