First Raspy Game, need some advice

[Whut]

So I finally stepped away from work long enough to play a couple games, yay!

Is Rasputina a support master or a damage dealing master? I always thought she was a heavy nuke but she just doesn't seem to be able to do what Sonnia does, or at least not as well.

Here is my dilemma. I played a game against a friend of mine who used tara against me, this was my first time using Raspy and first time against Tara. I got beast bombed hard on turn 2 even though I (sortof) saw it coming. A fast Convict Gunslinger was able to blow up a gamin and finish off Wendigo in one activation, and Snowstorm died to a single killjoy charge (or actually he would have, but my opponent flipped really low and snow survived with a few wounds, and then we had to call the game early). This was the matchup:

Corner Deployment

Squatters Rights

Bodyguard, Distract, Power Ritual, Breakthrough.

My list was

Raspy, Cold Nights, Seize the Day, Armor of December

Wendigo

Snow Storm, Energies, Warding Runes

December Acolyte

Angelica, Practiced Production

Arcane Effigy

Ice Gamin x2

Malifaux Raptor

From what I remember his list included:

Tara

Student of Conflict

Killjoy

Nothing Beast

Convict Gunslinger

Ronin

Void Wretch

Now for one, I felt that my crew was incredibly dependant on itself. The gamin and Arcane Effigy, while in theory were supposed to help Raspy blow things to pieces, ended up being more or less completely worthless and didn't do much. This meant that Raspy and Snowstorm ended up having to pretty much single handedly deal with the incoming threats. My second problem, and probably the biggest, is that despite having armor, the Ice Gamin were SO easy to kill due to their Df4, much easier than I expected. Same with the wendigo, and once the Effigy was stuck in combat I realized that despite being nearly as tough as a metal gamin, the Effigy is not nearly as offensively dangerous, and is not nearly as good as I thought. Next, the entire crew seemed super slow, which was expected, but I didn't expect actually how slow they were. I was barely out of the gate before my opponent started already controlling the center of the board. And lastly, Rasputina herself was not Sonnia like I thought. She either needs to focus to try for severe damage, limiting herself to one attack, or shoot off 3 seperate attacks and stone for Overpower, but this requires either "revving her up" with a gamin and Effigy or suffering from her pathetic weak 2 damage.

So can anyone help me out with some Rasputina tips? She seems like a top tier master, so I'm not sure if she just doesn't agree with my play style or if she's just not as great as I thought.

[admiralvorkraft]

Have you played with Sonnia? Because unless you're "revving her up" with Papa Loco and a Death Marshall (to the tune of 17 stones) she has the same issue. Ice Gamin are great for boosting your damage, don't feel afraid to use them.

 

The Snow Storm can do wonders for your mobility - blast your own models, push them, repeat. And Raspy can spam Paralyzed like few other masters which is a great way to neutralize something like Killjoy.

 

Lastly, nothing in the game (except maybe Izamu or the Peacekeeper) is so tough that you can just let it stand out in the open. Hug cover, take Defensive Stance, and accept that little things that cost four stones are going to die in 2-3 ap (usually). Metal Gamin are the exception, not the rule.

[Whut]

Let me clarify "revving up". Sonnia needs to be revved up once on turn one and then only loses it once the death marshal dies. Raspy needs to allow the gamin to activate, then let the Effigy activate and accomplice her, and you better hope you already have an ice mirror target in the right place or you'll need to activate them to move too. This doesn't allow for a top of turn "activate first and alpha strike" sort of thing.

Also, Sonnia has a 2/3BB/5BBB spread and places blast markers 2" away. This means that if she hits on a streight flip on any model, (which is likely with her CA of 9 and 3 AP and positive flips to damage) that model is going to be taking 5 damage, and at LEAST half of your crew will be taking 3. Also her trigger adds burning to all of those models.

Raspy on the other hand, has a 2/4B/5BB spread, with CA6 or 7, and can boost that up to an effective (including the burning from effigy) 4/6B/7BB. This is definitely nice, but doesn't allow her to nearly single handedly wipe out an entire opposing crew in one turn. She can do plenty of damage to one model, and probably a decent amount to one model next to the first model, but her crew seems to fall apart so quickly and once stuck into combat Raspy quickly starts to lose ice mirror targets and enemy targets as well.

Snow Storm I'd awesome for mobility, but if he wants to push then he can't walk himself. Also you then need to cheat for blasts which is annoying to say the least and card/AP wasting at worst.

As far as the last point, okay, then what does a Rasputina crew do once contact with the enemy is made? Should I take Myrandabus for some close combat threat? Do I take out the December Acolyte for that?

Speaking of the Acolyte, how does one deploy him, I was worried that he will just be ambushed and killed in the first turn so I deployed him a little too far to the side and he wasn't able to be used as a good threat nor as a good mirror. Perhaps just my mistake.

Again, just my opinion so far. I want to be told otherwise, or what I've done wrong.

[Bengt]

I've not been impressed with Rasputina's ability to damage multiple models.    just doesn't reach very far unless your opponent is cooperating or you are spending resources to move around their models (e.g. Burt Jebsen). She can do good damage against single targets though, with the occasional collateral hit. I also don't think she needs to activate early in the turn, Ice Pillars last until start of activation.

[Whut]

Do you use ice pillars to screen yourself or to block the enemy from moving more often? I feel like it's difficult to block the enemy in turn one unless it's the first thing you try to do by having Snowstorm pull Raspy up and quickly mirror through an Acolyte. But then Raspy's other two AP are more or less kind of wasted.

Oh, also how do you find her +2 Armor action? It forces you to activate early to get the most out of it but it seems very strong.

[madaxeman]

I'm no raspy expert (erm, one game..) but there are a lot of squishy models in that crew.// 

 

My other suggestion would be that with this scheme pool, the Blessed of December would be a go-to pick as it can leap in and deliver a message, breakthrough and/or leap out of engagement 

[Whut]

I don't think my problem was not being able to achieve schemes. My problem was more towards not being able to survive the enemy high damage melee models

[joediamond]

I don't play Raspy much anymore (not because she is bad, but just because I like my other masters more), but from my limited experience here are some tips:

 

1) In terms of your list, there are only three big things that jump out at me. First, I would drop the raptor.  You have an incredibly Interaction heavy Scheme pool and Strategy.  This is NOT the scenario to take Insignificant models.  In terms of upgrades, I don't think Warding Runes is worth it without Oxfordian Mages, and Armor of December feels superfluous, since you have both Angelica AND Snowstorm to pull Raspy out of trouble.  Sub Zero is a great upgrade for Snowstorm, and it'll boost your crew's survivability once they enemy crew closes to engage.

 

2) Silent Ones in particular can help your crew once the enemy closes, as their main attack spell doesn't have a  , so you can cast it into melee with no penalty (or cover).  It's also got amazing triggers.  It can attack again, lay down an Ice Pillar, or heal Frozen Heart models in a small  .  Which is great if you are casting into melee to support your damaged minions on the front lines.  Not to mention they have a zero action healing spell, so they can help your crew survive longer.

 

3) Ice Pillars are amazing.  In terms of how you use them though, that really just takes practice.  There are just SO many dirty tricks you can do.  My advice is to remember that a lot of auras and abilities require LOS, not just attacks/charges.  For example, Kirai cannot summon Ikiryo if ice pillars are between her and Izamu when you attack him.      Also keep in mind that the Wendigo/Malifaux Child can lay them down as well, so Raspy need not waste her AP.  Or, since the spell is only limited to once per ACTIVATION, not turn, you can double cast it with your totem and Raspy for 4 pillars, if you REALLY all of that ice.  

 

4) December's Touch (the +2 armor spell) is great, but it's something I'd reserve only for big important models.  If you can, cast this via the Wendigo or Malifaux Child to conserve Raspy's precious AP.  In terms of your list, Snowstorm is a great target for this.  Also, keep in mind the targeting on this spell does not specify friendly model, so if there is an enemy model you can't kill but need to move, give them December's Touch (which has no resist duel) and have Snowstorm Ice Tornado them around.  It takes a bit of setup, but it's a nice trick keep in mind for when you need it.  

 

My other suggestion would be that with this scheme pool, the Blessed of December would be a go-to pick as it can leap in and deliver a message, breakthrough and/or leap out of engagement 

 

Sorry for the essay.  Hope this helps!

[Whut]

Thanks for the advice, I'll take a lot of what you said into consideration next time. A few clarifications and questions though:

1) The reason for the Raptor is to use Practiced Production to complete power ritual easily. You're right about Armor of December. Warding Runes was there because my opponent declared Outcasts and I wanted to force Levi to dump a soulstone every time he wanted to shoot Snowstorm to prevent him from wiping him off in one turn. I do this on nearly every henchman against Outcasts.

2) How many Silent Ones? They aren't super cheap and they won't be helping with schemes and strategy at all because of how slow they are I will give them a shot though!

3) I feel that the Ice pillars are very difficult to use because they need to be 1" away from models and markers, but I can handle that. How do you cast 4 pillars at once? If you activate again, your previous set of pillars will dissappear, but you can't cast it more than once per activation. (NEVERMIND, I just understood that by 4 pillars you mean 4 individual pillars, not 4 sets of 2)

4) Will keep in mind!

5) I'll think about trying a blessed too!

[Shadowfane]

WRT to (3), you get two sets of ice pillars by using the wendigos magical extension to cast them as well as raspy

[Whut]

WRT to (3), you get two sets of ice pillars by using the wendigos magical extension to cast them as well as raspy

Right, I knew that, I just thought he meant you can possibly get 4 sets when he actually meant 4 pillars

[katadder]

make sure to walk your stuff into base contact, that way when you cast freeze over into melee it doesnt matter who you hit (as long as opponent isnt a master)

 

also once in that combat and done your freeze over go for the severe damage to your own ice gamin, 5 damage spread around the combat is nice and then followed up with exploding gamin.

 

my best use of this was against sonnia who was totally smashing me. moved my near dead golem (2 wounds left) into base contact with samael and death marshall, did a couple of attacks. then used Raspy, she didnt need the paralyse but did it 1st just in case then blasted into the combat twice.

this killed the ice golem and damaged samael, death marshall, francisco and papa loco. ice golem exploded taking out all but franc, papa loco exploded taking out franc.

 

yes its best case scenario but raspy has shooting her own as a staple tactic, has won me plenty of games.

[Whut]

One more question, what happens if you mirror through a silent one who is in combat but is in statue mode? Can you shoot the model it is engaged with? Does it randomize?

Also I understand the purpose of blowing up your own models but with only 7-8 models on the table to begin with and no summoning potential (unless Mech Rider) isn't it really sucky to lose models left and right?

Lastly, how many Ice gamin do most people take? Am I perhaps better off with just one that tries to stay out of trouble, babysits Raspy, and drops scheme markers? Is the Arcane Effigy worth it or would I be better off with something like a metal gamin for a better frontline force? I know these are strat and Scheme dependant but give it your best generalist answer.

Oh, and thanks for all the help guys, it's great to hear all this advice

[bertmac]

My lists have tended to have raspy killing stuff at the end of turn 1 to get good activation control. Raspy has efectively a 20" range with mirrors so can reach out and touch enemies all over the table.

I prefer shattered mirror, decembers pawn and arcane resevoir for upgrades. 2 red jokers per turn when you are cycling half the deck (6 attacks etc) wendigo is a good scheme runner ht 1 wk6. 6ss cache is preffered ive used ice golem with sub zero to keep gamin alive or snow storm to help raspy move without wasting ap that can otherwise be used for blasting.

[Uktena]

My favorite games with Raspy involve a Golem pitching Gamin into enemy scheme runners and alternating between paralyzing thhe enemy Enforcer and casting December's Curse into the Gamin melees. In one match against Guild my opponent clearly took Assassinate, and Raspy spent 5 turns standing around being Armor 6. Good times.....(?)

[joediamond]

One more question, what happens if you mirror through a silent one who is in combat but is in statue mode? Can you shoot the model it is engaged with? Does it randomize?

 

I think it still randomizes.  Statue silent ones merely allow you to cast through them while engaged.

 

Also I understand the purpose of blowing up your own models but with only 7-8 models on the table to begin with and no summoning potential (unless Mech Rider) isn't it really sucky to lose models left and right?

 

It's not something you should actively try to do, but if a model is dead anyway, or you need to get a last bit of damage on an important enemy (or cluster of enemies), it's a tactic worth considering.  You as the player simply need to weigh the cost vs benefit.  It can also help damage tricky models like Colette or Pandora, since it doesn't cause a duel or attack directly.

 

Lastly, how many Ice gamin do most people take? Am I perhaps better off with just one that tries to stay out of trouble, babysits Raspy, and drops scheme markers? Is the Arcane Effigy worth it or would I be better off with something like a metal gamin for a better frontline force? I know these are strat and Scheme dependant but give it your best generalist answer.

 

Personally, I dislike ice gamin for everything except that damage aura.  I usually just take one and keep it back to buff the crew, and that's about it.  In the case of your list, I'd have it drop a pointless scheme marker every turn just to fuel Trap Doors.  Metal Gamin are actually pretty good, especially if you are using Silent Ones or an Ice Golem.  They can give the Ice Golem good Df and the Silent Ones can heal them to make them incredibly annoying to remove.

[Whut]

I both like and dislike the Ice Golem. Offensively it is amazing with Ml6, a good damage spread, Melee Expert, and Slow on each attack. However I dislike the Df2 so much. Either you have to put Imbued Protection on him for 2 stones (giving him a still terrible Df of 4), or have a metal gamin constantly dropping 1AP a turn on protection of metal (at least until they reach an area where they can be stationary) and even then they could be pushed or pulled away from each other. I don't know, I'm having trouble because I want a Raspy list that is perfect but there's always something missing whether it be close combat ability or speed. I know I need to get out of this mindset

[paradoxstorm]

Use proxies for the silent ones, or wait a couple more weeks. The plastics were in the Monday preview a few weeks back.  

 

When it works, December Acolytes can drain an opponent's hand on turn 1 (and maybe 2) while handing out slow and possibly providing a mirror node depending on deployment.  I typically take 2.  

 

December's Pawn is wonderful.  True, you don't always get to use it in all games, but when you do :) 

 

The Blessed is very good.  Again you'll likely need to proxy.

 

For myself I like to keep Raspy back a bit and mirror spells through frozen heart models.  That means I don't often take non-fluff models as I want mirror nodes. 

[Whut]

Perhaps amother issue I have is that I feel I always need "optimal" activations so I was hesitant to activate Raspy and damage an enemy model with 3 attacks through a node and instead tried to move around and set myself up for an explosive turn, if that makes sense. I know I can take shattered heart but I'll just try to improve my game play instead.

My issue with December's Pawn is that it costs 2 ss and it's very likely that one of my other models will be the ones to flip the black joker. Unless I can get consistent plus flips to attack or something to try to run through my deck faster, a normal Raspy making 3 attacks in a turn flips/draws... I would estimate 7-12 cards depending on overpower triggers, surge triggers, and positive or negative damage flips. Is that really going to find the black joker enough that it becomes worth 2 whole stones and an upgrade slot? Not to mention, much of the time Raspy would just want to pillar instead of shooting.

(I know it seems like I'm shooting down a lot of ideas. Trust me, I'm not, I'm just playing devil's advocate to try to get all relevant information and see people give good advice. Thanks to all the commenters again!)

[joediamond]

Yeah I usually reach for Snow Storm nowadays when I need a good "central" non-master Raspy model.  He can bring some mobility and melee power to a crew that usually doesn't see much of that, as you noticed.  The only thing Ice Golem has on Snowstorm is a soulstone of savings and more melee power.  And if you use the Golem's only mobility trick (tossing Gamin up the board), he wastes his AP doing that and you have your big melee bruiser hanging out by the back of your table turn 1.

 

 

Although when facing Gremlins, the Ice Golem tossing all of your opponent's Ht 1 models around is really funny.  

 

And I find December's Pawn an interesting idea, but not worth the cost for how frequently it affects gameplay.  Just like the Ice Golem's big (3) smash attack, it's amazing that ONE GAME where it actually does something, but just a waste otherwise.  

 

For myself I like to keep Raspy back a bit and mirror spells through frozen heart models.  That means I don't often take non-fluff models as I want mirror nodes. 

 

I agree.  Similar to Marcus, Raspy is a master who likes playing with her own toys for the most part.  Although don't underestimate taking an odd model or two on occasion, since Raspy can hand out her Keyword pretty easily.  I think Angelica was a good choice for OP's original list, for example.  Cassandra is a cool idea too, sometimes.  She's fast, she can copy Silent One's amazing spell using Understudy, Raspy can give that squishy Showgirl some armor, and Cassandra is a slippery model that is very hard to tie town in melee, making her a very good mirror node.  Plus, Practiced Production brings some good scheming into Raspy's crew (or any crew, really), just like Angelica.

[Bengt]

December's Pawn is one those upgrades I would never take. For 2 SS on your Master Arcane Reservoir is so much better in my opinion, or hell, The Philosopher's Stone for 1 SS since Raspy has a rather situational (0), at least if you are not also taking Child of December.

[paradoxstorm]

My issue with December's Pawn is that it costs 2 ss and it's very likely that one of my other models will be the ones to flip the black joker. Unless I can get consistent plus flips to attack or something to try to run through my deck faster, a normal Raspy making 3 attacks in a turn flips/draws... 

 

Red Joker wins on a minus flip as well.  And the look on your opponent's face when you flip the black joker and crush their hopes and dreams.....ahhhhhhhh

 

Black joker in hand no longer has to be held for 2-4 turns denying you access to more hand resources.  (See thread where most players with black joker in hand keep it there until beginning of turn 5.)

 

People routinely toss away 4ss models to achieve less, 2ss is a bargain.  

[Whut]

Sure on the hand thing, but that's IF you draw the black joker. For 2 soulstones I can get Arcane Reservoir. If I take December's Pawn, I'm hoping that the black joker is one of the 7-12 cards that Raspy flips during her activation, or one of the 6 cards in my hand. Let's high ball it and say that's 18 cards that you want to be the Black Joker. That's only 1/3 of the deck, and that's assuming you don't want to do something else with your AP, like give Armor or place Pillars. You're banking on getting that black joker in that portion of the deck, for 2 ss. For one more stone I can have another full activation, and still have an upgrade slot available on Raspy for something better.

[paradoxstorm]

Sure on the hand thing, but that's IF you draw the black joker. For 2 soulstones I can get Arcane Reservoir. If I take December's Pawn, I'm hoping that the black joker is one of the 7-12 cards that Raspy flips during her activation, or one of the 6 cards in my hand. Let's high ball it and say that's 18 cards that you want to be the Black Joker. That's only 1/3 of the deck, and that's assuming you don't want to do something else with your AP, like give Armor or place Pillars. You're banking on getting that black joker in that portion of the deck, for 2 ss. For one more stone I can have another full activation, and still have an upgrade slot available on Raspy for something better.

 

I always take Arcane Reservoir so  I'm not trying to talk you out of that.

 

Drawing 7 cards the probability of getting the black joker on the draw is 7/54 or about 12.9%.  That doesn't sound all that good.  

 

But you are drawing cards for 5 turns.  Assuming you draw 7 cards on each of 5 turns the probability of getting the black joker on one of those draws is about 50%.  If you draw fewer cards, smaller chance.  If you have 2-3 low cards from the previous turn to discard, better chance.  If you stone for cards, even better chance that one of your 5 hands will have black joker.  So on average you will have the black joker in hand one game out of two.  

 

If the black joker is not in your hand it is 1 of 47 cards remaining.  Assuming you activate Raspy first and flip a total of 9 card, that is 9 of 47 or about 19%.   That is about 83% that you will flip it on one of Raspy's activations if she goes first.   

 

Of course the post-draw probabilities are all over the place.  If you activate Raspy last, then the chances of seeing the black joker are either 0 or very nearly 1 depending on what has already happened.  When you get to Raspy late in the turn with only a few cards left in the deck a double/triple negative damage flip gets to be really, really interesting.

 

Overall it is pretty safe to say that Raspy gets a second red joker about once per game.  

[Whut]

I agree, once per game sounds about right. But it will more often than not come in randomly and could be wasted on shooting a low Wd model, or on pillars, or something. For 1ss, I'd consider it powerful. For 2 ss, it's just too many ss on something that *might* happen, rather than most upgrades that are definite extra actions you can take and such.

Now I'm currently thinking of Child of December. Raspy's base zero action is pretty terrible, but on the other hand you won't always have the chance to paralyze models and little else you can take helps with that (I guess a performer or Angelica does though). The biggest question is, is it better than another upgrade? My usual load out is (or would be if I played more) Armor, Cold Nights, Seize the Day. Especially now that I'm going to be taking less ice gamin (gonna try just taking one) is paralyzing enemies using the base contact trick going to happen much? It seems like a good upgrade, and 9 damage to a master with an easy trigger and a cheated 13 seems pretty nice.