Kalkris Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I like the idea of the Belly Bounce trigger as a defensive and offensive one, and i like adding both iterations to a Lola-centric upgrade. After all, it's always nice for Henches to have their own upgrades ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Is there any way we could get the cards re edited with someof these changes so when i play thursday i can further test i can get games in two to three times a week.also are we gonna rework ss costs so that the crew comes to about 40 or 45. To include upgrades for them and maybe a bit of a pool. Or would that unblalance them to much? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I was actually aiming for that same overall cost of 40, so I'm glad we are in agreement there (among other places). We are formatting the work as we go, so while we have no changelog available (yet - I can make one i suppose), we will have things available for you and whoever else rather soon. Thursday might work for us, depending on if we can get all the changes formatted by then. The trouble is that Da Git is on the other side of the planet so is up when I am asleep haha - but, I'm sure he can give you a more valid answer tonight (today? lol). ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 im in a good position im at hours between you two i get up at 630 est and go to bed around 330 est (yay fatherhood and insomnia) and can get to my FLGS alot during the week. Also coming up my girl and kids will be on an extended vacation so i can get alot done in those weeks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'll have the cards updated tonight when I usually message you Kalkris. Otherwise, Jtaurus, if you PM me your email, I'll send them directly. The crew should be a bit more potent this week! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hey guys i didnt get to go thursday i got really sick and wasnt better till friday nightish so i didnt get to play the usual guys at flgs thou i did teach my girl how to play friday noght and let her use the crew against my colette box crew. It was a tight match up even thou i took both card draw upgrades my hand was getting eat up. It felt aometimes like my stuff would be swinging at air the upgrade for lola was making me chuckle as ieverytime my coryphee would swing lola would move 4 and then coryphee would it was like watching a twisted dance. The constant duels made it so every turn after the first i was down to 2 cards iin deck and about 1 to 2 in hand it was frustrating i was flipping god awful i flipped an int of 2 turn 2 so spent a soulstone (1 cause i needed too and 2 to show her various uses of the things.) To reflip got an ace ya thats about how most of the game went i pulled out a narrow 10-9 victory with only one ss on colette. She got the trigger twice to steal a ss btw. Ya now i remembered why i hate misaki. I was afraid she was goona get it again and drain my last one before i could remake it. If not for great scheme placing and that ls what the schemes came up. Ill give the run down to the shop probly monday to play again against people that know how to play lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hmm... You say that she managed to get 9vp using Mr. Cooper in her first game... ever? How experienced is she in other wargames? This seems like a cause for mild concern if she isn't too versed in wargaming, simply because it means Cooper probably has an absurd power level mixed with a low learning curve. And to give Colette a run for her money is no small feat either. Or was it just horrendous luck on your part? I got a game done too (and by that I mean I had people play while I took notes). I will relay my findings later today. It wasn't quite as close in mine (Reckoning v. Misaki, Misaki won 7 or 8 to 4). ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Here's what I've got in terms of notes for my witnessed game: 50ss Neverborn (Cooper Thematic) vs. Ten Thunders Standard Deployment Reckoning ALitS Bodyguard Assassinate Plant Evidence Vendetta Mr. Cooper, 6ss pool - 1ss - No More Mr. Nice Guy - 2ss - What Is Freely Given - 2ss - Unpaid Debts - 1ss Baritone Lola - 10ss - Flop & Roll - 1ss Mercury - 8ss - Take Center Stage - 1ss Thin Lizzy - 5ss Flying Monkey x3 - 3ss X3 = 9ss Mummerette x2 - 5ss X2 = 10ss Assassinate undeclared Plant Evidence undeclared Misaki, 6ss pool - 4ss - Cutpurse - 1ss - Disguise - 2ss - Untouchable - 1ss Shang - 3ss Yamaziko - 7ss Ototo - 10ss Izamu, the Armor - 10ss Torakage x2 - 6ss X2 = 12ss Bodyguard (Izamu) undeclared Assassinate undeclared T1 - movement T2 - Misaki initiative Ototo walks twice Flying Monkey 1 (FM1) uses Fly, My Pretties! FLY!!! (FmPF) to get everyone closer to Ototo, but not within range to hit him with G&D. Izamu walks twice, towards the Monkeys Flying Monkey 2 (FM2) uses FmPF to get every Monkey past Ototo Torakage 1 (TK1) walks twice to get to the center Flying Monkey 3 (FM3) uses FmPF to get the squad up in close with Shang Shang attacks FM2 twice, misses once, hits for 1dg (3Wd left) Mercury Charges TK1 with the Barbell Sweep, misses, hits Izamu (in range) for a total of 3 damage after Armor (6Wd left) Misaki charges Mercury, hits for a total of 8Dg over 2 Cg action attacks (1Wd left), and attacks once more, hitting for another 2, killing Mercury Mummerette 1 (MR1) walks twice towards Yamaziko Yamaziko walks to MR1, attacks twice and misses both times (the Masks of Joy and Sorrow were absolutely why - negatives were rampant here) Baritone Lola walks twice to Yamaziko Torakage 2 charges Lola, misses once and hits once for 3 Dg (6Wd left) Mummerette 2 (MR2) walks twice towards Ototo Player-Misaki is out of activations Thin Lizzy walks twice towards Izamu Cooper walks twice towards Misaki, uses Sharpened Claws against TK1 (in range) and hits for 4 Dg and 1 poison (1Wd left) No points are scored for Reckoning T2 Cooper - 0, Misaki - 0 T3 - Cooper initiative FM1 interacts with a tree, walks once towards Shang, kills Shang with a Grab & Drop (G&D) for 4 TK1 attacks Cooper twice, misses and then hits for 1Dg (11Wd left) FM2 interacts with another tree, walks towards FM1 Izamu charges Lizzy, misses, then hits for 3 (3Wd left), and then uses Melee Expert to attack Lizzy again, hitting for 4 and killing her. Izamu is Ruthless and thus bypassed all checks here. FM3 interacts with a third tree, walks towards the squad Ototo flurries MR1, misses once, and hits for a total of 5 after Hard to Kill (1Wd left) MR1 disengages from Ototo, walking twice TK2 attacks Lola twice, hitting for 6 total, killing Lola. TK2 passed all checks here. MR2 disengages from Yamaziko and walks once, before interacting near another piece of terrain Yamaziko walks towards MR2, attacks it twice, misses once then hits for 3 (3Wd left) Cooper suffers 2Dg for Nothing's Free (9Wd left), Kills TK1 (healing 1 to put him to 10Wd), attack Misaki twice, hits for a total of 4 and Poison+3 (8Wd left before Poison). Misaki fails to disengage from Cooper, then tries a Diving Charge at FM2, failing to hit, twice Both players score 1 point for Reckoning Cooper - 1VP, Misaki - 1VP T4 - Misaki initiative Izamu charges Cooper, hits for a total of 6Dg (4Wd left), uses Melee Expert to deal another 3Dg to Cooper (1Wd left) FM3 walks towards Misaki, uses G&D and misses Misaki uses Diving Charge on Cooper, hits for Black Joker, then hits FM2 through Sleight of Hand (SoH) for 2, then attacks FM2 and hits for 4, killing it FM1 interacts with more terrain, walks to Misaki, G&Ds Misaki, but misses Ototo walks towards MR1, attacks it and misses MR2 attacks Yamaziko, hits her for 3, then Walks twice away from Yamaziko Yamaziko walks towards MR2, hits it for Red Joker (7Dg, putting it to 1Wd HOWEVER we accidentally forgot about HtK here so killed MR2 erroneously), and walks towards Cooper Cooper shoots Smoke into melee, towards Izamu twice, hitting for 2 total (4Wd, and Misaki takes 1 blast damage here - 6Wd at this point from Poison), shoots FM1, hits it for 1 (3Wd left), uses What Is Freely Given towards Misaki, succeeds and steals a soulstone TK2 walks twice MR1 attack Ototo and hits for 5, then walks twice away from Ototo Player-Misaki declares Bodyguard on Izamu Cooper - 1VP, Misaki - 3VP (although it should be 1 less) T5 - Misaki initiative Yamaziko uses Master Tactician on Cooper, succeeds (Cooper drops 4 cards), then Braces Yari FM1 uses G7D on Misaki, succeeds, but deals no Dg due to the height fallen - but pushes Misaki elsewhere TK2 walks towards Cooper, attacks Cooper, misses MR1 walks, interacts with yet another terrain piece Izamu walks to Cooper, attacks him twice, hits FM3 (SoH) for 5 and kills it, then hits Cooper again for 3, making Unpaid Debts go off, putting Cooper at a total of 4 Stones (as stones were burned in the interim, mostly for cards) Cooper shoots in to engagement between Misaki and FM1, and shoots FM1 thrice, hits for 2 (dealing 1 to Misaki), misses twice, then succeeds with WiFG on Izamu, walking him away Ototo charges Cooper, misses once, then hits for 5 after, killing Cooper NOTE: We didn't mean to call it there, as Misaki still had to go, but we called it there. Izamu netted Player-Misaki another 2 points for Bodyguard, Player-Misaki got 1 more point for Reckoning and 2 more for Assassinating Cooper (+5 total), and Player-Cooper got full points for Plant Evidence (+3) Score: Cooper - 4VP, Misaki - 8VP (although it should have been 7VP) Notes from the players: T2: PC, PM: the Masks of Joy and Sorrow ability is far too effective in making the Mummerettes resilient. Perhaps it can be changed to be a shadow of Danse Macabre, but granting the MRs instead of the opponent . PC: Mercury folded like paper. Perhaps make his Df higher or make his Df stay high when he self-heals. He should act as the tank of the crew. T3: Kalkris: PM burned through their deck by the late turn PC, PM: Monkeys should not be significant! PC: the Feed My Frankenstein trigger is very resource-intensive and shouldn't be if it is to be used T4: PM, PC: Monkeys and Mummerettes are fairly powerful, possibly unfairly so T5: PM: Cooper as a single model is very survivable and it might be frustrating. ~~~~~ This is what we got. There were a couple of errors made. but it didn't err against the playtest, only the game itself. Player-Misaki had to make a LOT of simple duels in that game, which was possibly annoying. Thoughts? ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Some things I noted, How did Yamaziko get - so easily? She's Wp7 all she needs is a 2 (on turn 2) to pass the duel. It was - to attack if you fail + to Df if you pass. Did Mercury use Don't Stop Me Now when Misaki killed him? By my count he was in range of Misaki,Izamu and a Torakage, making killing him a risky move. Also, what if we make I Want to Break Free after damaging? That ties in with his lowish Df. why didn't Lola use the triggers to escape the Torakage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 I was coaching her i feel if you let a new player just lose a bit they are more likely to get hooked so i caosched till turn three vut af5er that she gained alot of headway i also played sub optimally. Cause of this thatd why i didnt eant to exactly record this as a pkaytest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Sry bit tipsy while posting too. Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 I also agree with making mercury slughtly higher so neg two isnt killing him directly. Maybe at a 6 or7 so he ends at 4 or 5 which is still a risk especially in the situations you want him in with multiple opponents where he canaybe survive 6 attacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Some things I noted, How did Yamaziko get - so easily? She's Wp7 all she needs is a 2 (on turn 2) to pass the duel. It was - to attack if you fail + to Df if you pass. Did Mercury use Don't Stop Me Now when Misaki killed him? By my count he was in range of Misaki,Izamu and a Torakage, making killing him a risky move. Also, what if we make I Want to Break Free after damaging? That ties in with his lowish Df. why didn't Lola use the triggers to escape the Torakage? Yamaziko had to pass a TN10 on T2 (the first turn counts and its TN8 to start). At least one of those duels she lost. I might have overstated there. We had neglected Don't Stop Me Now. Oops. I like changing IW2BF to be after failing an opposed duel in which he is the defender. Lola may have been lacking the suit at the time. ~~~~~ So yeah, I suppose a few things more were flubbed. But still, I figure IW2BF doesnt matter much as Mercury was still killed anyway. There's my explanation XD ~Lil Kalki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirce Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yamaziko had to pass a TN10 on T2 (the first turn counts and its TN8 to start). At least one of those duels she lost. I might have overstated there. We had neglected Don't Stop Me Now. Oops. I like changing IW2BF to be after failing an opposed duel in which he is the defender. Lola may have been lacking the suit at the time. ~~~~~ So yeah, I suppose a few things more were flubbed. But still, I figure IW2BF doesnt matter much as Mercury was still killed anyway. There's my explanation XD ~Lil Kalki As PC on Kalkris' playtest, I can attest that I was lacking the suits for Lola's trigger, and hadn't thought to burn a stone to assure me the suit before the duel began. So that was mostly my own stupidity. We did forget Don't Stop Me Now on Mercury, but it would have probably only dented Izamu and Misaki given that it would have been entirely up to the whims of fate (I had a decently useless hand that turn -Black Joker, some 4s, maybe a 7 left- and I have notoriously bad luck). Still, he folded quickly which is perhaps not the best. -------- Personal observations on the playtest- while my opponent found Unpaid Debts to be a bit OP, I thought it made Cooper sufficiently hard to kill for a Master. The fact that much of Cooper's effectiveness relies on his triggers keeps Unpaid Debts from being too absurd. However, there should maybe be a cap on how much it heals him since you could, theoretically, heal 7 wounds with that upgrade. Flying Monkeys - while awesome, they should probably be a bit more like Colette's doves and class as insignificant. Making them capable of interact actions causes them to be almost insanely OP with schemes that require dropping tokens in your opponent's side of the board considering Fly My Pretties, Fly. Apes on the Wing trigger is probably unnecessary, just because there is a limit of 6 damage, and if you're going to Grab and Drop, you're probably cheating fate anyway since it plays off your HT stat. On the whole, the crew is pretty defensive which is good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Okay so I will need to rummage through all this, the cards the abilities etc and sign up for playtesting duty. I will be limited to Vassal only though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Great to have you on board zFiend. We should have the next weeks cards up maybe tomorrow or the next day! I would also be up for some Vassalfaux. Unfortunately I have a 10 month old who enjoys eating up my hobby time... I'll let you know if/when I have time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Typos: Model/Upgrade: Mr. Cooper (back) Action/Ability/Trigger: May I Direct Your Attention Typo: [...]with a friendly Scheme Marker within 4" and LoS of this model.[...] Model/Upgrade: Mr. Cooper (back) Action/Ability/Trigger: Caress of Silk Typo: Caress of Silk NOTES: Capital "S" for key title bits of abilities/actions/triggers Model/Upgrade: Mr. Cooper (front) Action/Ability/Trigger: Sleight of Hand Typo: [...]base contact with this model, then place this model anywhere[...] NOTES: Alternatively, you could put a comma after the corrected "Then" and keep the sentences as they were otherwise, but I'm sure this is more correct grammatically. Model/Upgrade: Flying Monkey (front) Action/Ability/Trigger: Barreling Monkeys Typo: [...]Horror Duel[...] NOTES: consistency. Also! Barreling has only 1 "L" in it. Model/Upgrade: Flying Monkey (back) Action/Ability/Trigger: Apes on the Wing Typo: [...]final Duel total[...] NOTES: uppercase "D" as that's a term to capitalize. Model/Upgrade: Baritone Lola (front) Action/Ability/Trigger: Squeel! Typo: Squeel! NOTES: it has an exclamation point at the end. See: [various Gremlins], Jakob Lynch Model/Upgrade: Baritone Lola (front) Action/Ability/Trigger: Forms Given Fears Typo: [...]engagement range[...] NOTES: capitalization is weird sometimes. Model/Upgrade: Baritone Lola (back) Action/Ability/Trigger: Dont Forget to Dance Typo: [...]the target receives the Paralyzed Condition. NOTES: in keeping with consistency for the game's terms. A point of contention, I'm sure XD Model/Upgrade: Baritone Lola (back) Action/Ability/Trigger: I Can't Breathe! Typo: After damaging, the target gains[...] NOTES: damaging isn't a term that is capitalized, it seems to me. Model/Upgrade: Mercury (front) Action/Ability/Trigger:It's A Kind Of Magic Typo: [...]or they may not Cheat Fate. NOTES: consistency of terms. Model/Upgrade: Mercury (front) Action/Ability/Trigger: Don't Stop Me Now Typo: [...]this model may immediately make a (2) Attack Action. NOTES: You can end the statement there, OR you could change "enemy" to "attacking". The former option means you could attack anyone in range first, but the second limits you to the attacker first. That distinction could be relevant. Model/Upgrade: Mercury (front) Action/Ability/Trigger: Headlong Charge Typo: it must make a single 2 AP Attack Action instead of two 1 AP Attack Actions. NOTES: Consistency with the earlier part of the clause. Model/Upgrade: Mercury (back) Action/Ability/Trigger: Barbell Spin Typo: [...]against another target in range until all valid targets[...] NOTES: lowercase "r". Capitalization is weird for this game but there is a consistency to it XD Model/Upgrade: Welcome To My Nightmare Action/Ability/Trigger: Run Away With Me Typo: Non-Showgirl, non-Carny Minion models[...] NOTES: uppercase "M", as it is a characteristic. Model/Upgrade: What Is Freely Given Action/Ability/Trigger: Gratefully Received Typo: [...]it must discard one Soulstone,[...] NOTES: uppercase "S", for consistency at least. Model/Upgrade: Unpaid Debts Action/Ability/Trigger: Unpaid Debts Typo: [...]to not be killed.[...] NOTES: lowercase "k". Model/Upgrade: Take Center Stage Action/Ability/Trigger: Take Center Stage Typo: Place this model in the center of the board.[...] NOTES: I know that there's a bit of contention here, perhaps, but it keeps things consistent with the upgrade and with the game's linguistics otherwise. Model/Upgrade: Major Gaff Action/Ability/Trigger: Look Away Now! Typo: Unnerving is off center Model/Upgrade: Major Gaff Action/Ability/Trigger: Chimera Typo: is off center Model/Upgrade: Mummerette (back) Action/Ability/Trigger: This is a Solo Act! Typo: After damaging, push this model up to 4" in any direction.[...] Model/Upgrade: Flop and Roll Action/Ability/Trigger: preamble to Flop and Roll trigger Typo: This model's Belly Flop action gains the following Trigger: Model/Upgrade: Flop and Roll Action/Ability/Trigger: Diving Flop Typo: After succeeding, this model may immediately make a Belly Flop Attack Action[...] We are getting there! If we can get these typos fixed by tomorrow, we can release Week 2's work, I think. Da Git, should we make a new thread for Week 2, or maybe do that for Week 3/4 (considering the way I want the playtest to cycle a bit)? I'm thinking either each week, or as Week 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, and Final. A new week might get more views (and that's how Justin does it with playtests), but we have a lot already stored here (and besides, Justin releases a whole lot each week when he does stuff like this). What do you think? ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 See i dont see the monkeys as op most of the time you choose between mobility/synergy vs scheme running cant take a 1 a tion when you spent two to get up field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well yeah, but you can take an interact alongside a bit of movement and then still be able to take an offensive action on top of that. I do think that, having seen what I'd seen of them, the scheme running they have is a bit bonkers, simply because as long as you do it, it dosen't matter *when* you do it. ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 I guess i just had opponents that wanted the monkeys dead after seeing their speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's been a while since I've been on the forums, glad that this project seems to be taking off. Few thoughts having read through the cards: Mr Cooper 1) What is the intended use of Mr Cooper's scarf attack? It has a poor damage track, but being able to use a (0) and 1 soul stone to insta kill a model is also super powerful. It seems very swingy - you can either kill a model or not do much damage. Both options likely will lead to frustration for either the player or opponent. The heal trigger is nice if you happen to get it, but not worth a soul stone (better used on damage mitigation) or the (0) action since you're likely only to heal what you suffer to take the (0) action. 2) I really like the slight of hand trigger on Mr Cooper 3) Have we abandoned the Hazy condition? I much prefer the idea of putting a condition on someone, but making the tests harder and only affecting those models. The TN number increasing with the turn number is something I can't say I'm a fan of - it's very back ended, and cripples the crew in earlier turns when there are more models on the field to attack, therefore making such duels more useful. Towards the end of the game where it becomes good there will be fewer friendly models with it and fewer enemy models to be affected by it, and you may already have lost by then. Dishing out the condition for that sort of thing instead means you aren't crippled early game, or OP late game, and also gives you and your opponent tactical options to either use it well or get around it. As it is it is simply there and weak early game, ok mid game and fairly decent late game - not that interesting IMO. 4) Blow smoke on Mr Cooper - again, this attack seems fairly weak for a master without the associated upgrade. Ca 5 vs Wp means it is more likely to miss than hit since the average Wp in the game is above 5. Even if it does hit it has a fairly tame damage track even with the blasts, and pushes models away. Unless you take the upgrade, which makes it pretty good. So the problem is you have an ability on the card that is only really worth using if you also take the upgrade and even then is more likely to miss that hit. And finally, what synergy does it have with any of his other abilities? It just seems to be there to give him a fairly weak ranged attack (without upgrade). 5) May I direct your attention, again seems like it costs too much for what it does. It's a movement shenanigan piece but only really lets you place someone within 4" of Mr Cooper, and costs a (1) action and the scheme marker placed in addition to do it, AND they then cannot make interact actions. The ability would be useful at times, but more often than not would not be useful due to the high cost (scheme marker, no interact) for a fairly standard movement shenanigan compared to most other masters that can move models. The trigger is nice but if we look at what it takes to reliably get this to work: (1) action, place scheme marker, (0) action to give the required suit, suffer 1 wound, (1) action to move a model within 10" to within 4" of Mr Cooper. So two (1) actions, a (0) action and a wound to move someone within 4" of Cooper and then activate them. Honestly I think that is far too expensive for what it does - you're spending nearly your entire activation of your master to move someone and then activate them, and also suffering a wound to be able to do so reliably. So I'm a bit concerned that Mr Cooper is a bit below the power curve when you compare him to other masters. The original concept we were talking about had him as a support master, but none of his abilities outside of a relatively expensive movement shenanigan, help his crew very much. Having the scarf do 0/0/1 damage and generate free pushes and dish out hazy was an idea I liked a lot better. It gave his basic attack usefulness in positioning your own models, positioning enemy models and also dishing out the crew condition. There could also be a trigger to have it dish out a decent damage track (say 4/5/6) which would work with his (0) action and you could only reliably do it once per turn unless you wanted to blow soul stones. It also basically does what his (1) "may I direct your attention" action does now, meaning you have one attack that does everything his current attack and "may I direct your attention" does consolidated and working better in one action: (1) Silken scarf Rng 4" Ml 7 Rst Df Dmg 0/0/1 , models hit by this attack may be pushed up to 4" in any direction "Tangle" Enemy models hit by this attack receive the slow condition "Garotte" This attack does 4/5/6 damage instead "May I direct your attention" - if the model hit is friendly it may activate immediately after this model as a chain activation That is one attack that does pretty much everything those two currently do, and better, with less text. It makes Mr Cooper about positioning models (both friendly and enemy) and draining AP from his opponents. In a pinch he can do a bit of damage too, and it synergises with his (0) action. It would free up the rest of his card for other things and in M2E designing a master is as much about economy of text as interesting ideas (to keep things simpler, and free up limited space on the card). Flying Monkeys These seem strange for totems in that they are very expensive, have little to no synergy with the master or crew, and are significant. They also only have a (0) attack, which I like as a (0) action, but at the moment they are essentially 5SS minions that are very mobile together but can only attack once. There is no reason for them to be a totem if they are expensive, significant and don't synergise with the crew - they could work in any crew at the moment equally effectively, none of their abilities interact with the master or require him. As has been pointed out, as they are significant and ridiculously mobile they are also probably far too good at scheme running. I very much like their tactical action and their (0) action, I just think that the role of the model needs to be rethought. It is either a significant minion at 5SS with some synergy or an insignificant totem and cheaper totem with heavy ties to the crew/master in their abilities. At the moment it is in a no-mans-land in the middle and doesn't look to do either job well. Baritone Lola Generally like the ideas here, but again seems fairly weak for a 10SS henchman. The basic attack has really poor weak/moderate damage, meaning again is will be very swingy where if you happen to get off a severe it is amazing, otherwise it's really poor. Her ranged attack again is weak, but with a crazy good trigger. Again, very swingy - with trigger excellent, without really poor. It is quite likely that this 10ss henchman will put out 2 damage in their activation when they attack someone even if they hit with all their attacks, spending 2AP. Which seems very weak. I like her (0) action, but would give her the pounce abilities and remove the trigger and have her move first. Again she has the TN number increasing with turn order mechanic which I'm not a fan of. Mercury Like a lot of the things I see here. Like his (2) attack, although maybe up the Ml to 6 and he could do with a trigger on his (2) action. But yeah, like what I see there. Again I have the same issues as with the rest on the core mechanic of the crew and TN numbers, but his other concepts I really like. Mummettes Generally like them. I especially like the "stage props" attack which is much better than my idea of having them have different attacks, but also allows those different attacks - whoever came up with that well done. However on a (6)SS minion this being a (0) action is a problem - they get one shot with it and more importantly they can't charge. It makes sense for it to be a (0) action in my original concept of them being 0 soul stone cost totems for Mr Cooper (that was why I limited them so much), but on a 6SS minion it severely limits them. I will say that I would very much prefer them to have been the totem than the monkeys, and having to use mr cooper to move about etc. It would make them an actual totem that synergises with the master, it would make Mr Cooper able to be a control support piece extraordinare since you don't have to waste space on his card giving him damage attacks - the mummerettes do that for him. TLDR: In my opinion the crew has generally very swingy mechanics, which is something I'm not a fan of. There is not enough synergy between the crew as each model works as well on its own as within the crew. The totem is a 5ss minion, rather than a totem. Outside of Mercury the crew does very, very little damage (monkeys, lola, thin lizzy and cooper do very little consistent damage, with some swingy exceptionally high damage triggers or severe damage). Appologies if this post comes across as overly negative, but I was just a bit taken aback at some of the decisions that have happened since I last checked, like the tn/turn number mechanic which I honestly think will be a nightmare to balance and isn't really that interesting since there is no tactical application to it, it is simply there. The removal of the hazy condition also has essentially eliminated any synergy between the crew, which is the biggest issue I have with the current iteration - every model would work equally well in another crew. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks for that mammoth post there Manic Mouse! I've kinda taken over a little bit as Kalkris' Computer's down for the time being. I also wasn't involved in those initial discussions so I can't possibly comment on a lot of what you said. I've completed the Week 2 cards, which are quite a bit different, I'd love you to have a look over them & see what you think. If you could also send me any info that you had for your original discussions that would be great! Do you have any mock cards? I'd love to read them (I wrote Lola, Mercury & the Mummerettes, but I'm happy to change the others too). Hopefully a few of the issues you've mentioned are fixed with this update. Please feel free to comment (I love your Scarf Action!) What do you think of the Haze effects now? It should be much more balanced (to my mind anyways) Cheers I'm also going to start a new thread for week 2. NEW THREAD STARTED, PLEASE POST THERE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 If there is any way to make mock cards I will happily make a set for my concept of the crew. Is there an editable PDF or anything for making custom cards? I would spend this afternoon making a set so you can see what you think. I feel my post above may come across as really negative and I apologise if so. Some of the new ideas are really genius, love some of the stuff on Mercury and Lola, love the mumerette attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 No Probs about the post, Unfortunately, it was kinda bad timing as I just posted the new cards. Hopefully these are an improvement! I really like your ideas! I'll shoot you a PM. Also, Can you please post on the new thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hey mods, Since we have a new thread and everything, could you perhaps lock this one? Thank you! ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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