Whut Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 A player in my area is pretty well known for favoring the Hoffguy and dominating. I haven't seen him on the table yet but I have read his cards and his pullmyfinger page and holy crap I haven't seen this many different ways to support your crew... ever. Naturally I'm pretty scared of the Df6 Wp6 Ml7 Hoffball, especially the rail golem. What is our best option to prepare for a guild player pulling out Hoffman without being too vulnerable against any other guild master? Also, general helpful list building advice against guild. Obviously, metal gamin. But 2ish magnetisms per turn can easily just be healed back, no? Pretty good option to stop the nimble watcher though! Another stupid idea, and I mean STUPID all-eggs-in-a-basket idea is to take Marcus, wait till Hoffman activates and loops in his ball, and then immediately alpha him (the power loop works till "this models next activation") so the ball falls apart. Then again, if Hoffman has the red joker at the wrong time, or Marcus doesn't have a 13, or black jokers the flip, Marcus is a dead man (or at least Hoffman gains control of the table). Are performers/captain/Oxfordian/etc useful to try to push apart the ball? With enemy Df6 Wp6 it doesn't seem reliable enough. What masters to take? What models to target? Etc and so on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishSausage Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 howard/joss combo deals with hoff as ignor all joss and decapitate howard will wreck card intensive crew that hoffman is, throw in 1-2 december acolytes and the pain will be real as your making him discard cards and slow his big monsters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Is Hoff really that card intensive? I heard with a looped metal gamin he casts things on a Black Joker/2/4 depending on which action it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishSausage Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 he needs 4's and 6's but when you hit him with card dropping abilities he will drop the lowes cards in his hand, now if he fails any of those simple duels now he has to cheat in his mid to high cards just to pass them, its a win-win Also there is nothing better then a hoffman flipping a 13 for his machine puppet "obey" and then flipping a 1or 2 on the duel itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 He's card intensive the way any AP passing master is - I mean he's no Colette but he can still be looking at upwards of six duels per activation. Mei Feng with Hard Worker could be an option. The Hoff wants to ball up and Mei is more than happy if he does that, plus she brings Kang who will help Gunsmiths/D. Acolytes tear through his constructs like butter and if he doesn't drop Hoffman I still don't know of a single Guild crew that is happy about Vent Steam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I love the Hoff but any form of a)ignoring armour willpower duels followed by forced movement c) hand drainage, is going to make him a sad panda. The skill with him is to ensure you can cover the weaknesses long enough to exploit his strengths in the middle of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yeah, he's not a fan of Lillith/Yan Lo and really hates McMourning (in either of his factions) I'll maintain Mei Feng with Hard Worker is probably the best counter in Arcanists, but a Performer or two is never a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 *Meanwhile there I am in the Mei Feng thread talking about how I don't find her useful and don't want to play her >.> Anything else? xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I would not call myself any sort of expert on Hoffman, but I have played him A LOT in the last few months. I will say that I don't find him so card intensive. You're right, with the right models near by and looped in, I hardly ever have to cheat my own abilities so I don't feel like he is card intensive at all.Armor and wp though... man...I haven't faced off against arcanists with him yet, but I have faced down Freikorps and Vicks a few times and man... if it ignores armor it jumps way up on my priority. if two or more things ignore armor, then I know i'm in for quite a beating. Also, anything that can move my constructs out of Hoffman's reach cause some real issues. If they aren't close enough to loop, then I have to waste their activation for a whole turn just to get them in range. you can cripple some plans like that.it isn't the end of the world, but if Hoffman gets over extended then he really feels it.I'm sure there are plenty of other holes in Hoffman's bubble to exploit, but these two are the ones I worry about most when choosing to run the Hoff.hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 *Meanwhile there I am in the Mei Feng thread talking about how I don't find her useful and don't want to play her >.> Anything else? xD Well, maybe you're wrong? I don't know, it's not a match-up I've ever run. But it looks damn good on paper. I wouldn't keep going on about it, but the whole list ignores armor, Vent Steam will impose negative twists on all of Hoffman's power-looping which probably won't do much but it does make him less reliable. Throw burning on a couple of important targets and Tiger Claw them out of the bubble/to pieces. I would run: Mei Feng - 5 Cache -Seismic Claws -Vapormancy - Imbued Protection Joss -Powered by Flame Kang -Hard Worker Firestarter -Imbued Energies 2x Railworkers Steam Arachnid Hoffman lists are normally pretty small so I wouldn't worry about out-activation. Firestarter can hunt scheme runners or light up models in the bubble. Kang and the Railworkers can carve through constructs, and Joss just generally doesn't care what he hits. I might drop the Firestarter and Arachnid for Howard Langston and Imbued Energies. I promise I won't bring it up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 A different route would be a Showgirls list; Colette, Cassandra, Joss, Howard/Duet, Performers. Maybe Colette's summoning upgrade to cement activation control. Maybe swap out a Performer for a December's Acolyte. Performers pull the important models (Guardian, Metal Gamin) into Joss' warm embrace. The fast beater takes out Schemers/anything that doesn't need to be part of the group. Colette/Cassandra make sure that everybody has more than enough AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I appreciate this is in the Arcanists forum but my best experience dealing with Hoffman is this. Now coming from me this wont be a surprise but the Viks utterly ruin a Hoffman Deathball. If you land Vik of Blood with Fast from Oathkeeper and Mark of Shez'uul in the middle of the Deathball whilst maintaining LoS to Vik of Ashes that will be a VERY unhappy day for Hoffman. Here's how I'd go about it (and have very successfully trashed Hoffman) Viktoria of Ashes w. Sisters in Spirit, Synchronized Slaying + Upgrade of your choice Activates Walks to get into position for a Slingshot Sisters in Spirit Viktoria of Blood Cast Sisters in Battle for Attack Flips on all Sisters. Chain Activate Viktoria of Blood via Accomplice (Synchronized Slaying) Viktoria of Blood uses Oathkeeper for Fast Then use (0) The Lonely Path for Damage Flips whilst at least 6" away from other Sisters. Charge into the middle of the Deathball engaging as many as possible with Mark of Shez'uul whilst remaining 6" away from Sisters. You now have 3AP + Melee Expert on a Henchman with SS usable for to smash out Whirlwind all day long at Ml 7 all coming down on the enemy with a damage track of 3/4/6 with Attack and Damage Flips. There isn't a Hoffball in existence that can survive that sort of punishment. Sure you might loose Blood in the process after she's done but I assure you there will be less of Hoffman's models left then yours by the time you're done with them. Of course if you don't want to stray from Arcanists then Joss and Langston are your go-to guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Force him to play Reconnoitre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I appreciate this is in the Arcanists forum but my best experience dealing with Hoffman is this. Now coming from me this wont be a surprise but the Viks utterly ruin a Hoffman Deathball.As someone who has been the Hoff player in this type of match up, I completely second this.Also, Joss... I love Joss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would probably not run Hoffman against Outcasts for the same reason I reach for Ironsides in Arcanists. Why spend stones on armor when half the faction just completely ignores it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I think half the faction is a little exaggerated but the Outcasts do have some pretty reliable means of tearing armour apart. We are just that awesome! Saying that a fair few of Hoffman's constructs have an ignore armour trigger so often bringing constructs to a construct fight with Hoffman isn't the way forward. He's great at manipulating them be it friendly or foe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 He can ignore armor, as can his Attendant, the Guardian, and the Large Arachnid. Metal Gamin have Magnetism, and Joss doesn't care about things. However the other staples of the list - Hunters, Watcher, Warden, Rail Golem, Howie, Peacekeeper - don't. I also don't see anything on Hoffman's cards or upgrades that allows him to directly effect non-friendly constructs. He can target them with Shakedown but that just drops a scrap... Which, actually, reminds me of another minor thing Mei Feng brings to the table which is the trigger on Thunderous Smash to remove all scheme/corpse/scrap markers within 3". The only other efficient ways of getting rid of scrap that I can think of are the Large Arachnid and Ramos (either via summoning or Combat Mechanic). Not that Hoffman struggles at all to make scrap on his own activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 The Peacekeeper actually has a trigger to ignore Armor, I think, while Howie can kill models with Decapitate and ignore Armor that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I actually just looked at willie and realized he's a pretty safe bet against Guild. Against Hoffman he ignores armor with a 2/3/4 blast attack and against Sonnia he doesn't take damage from her BS blasts. Other smaller advantages include being out of LoS so he doesn't get shot by Perdita's overwatch, and generally being target number 1 and drawing fire, but being Df6. His Wp5 doesn't matter as I don't think guild has very many WP attacks, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 His Wp5 doesn't matter as I don't think guild has very many WP attacks, yes? Not a lot, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Not a lot, no. Get back in your box! (do you see what I did?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yeah, there are a few. Lawyers, too. Some others, but overall, not a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yea and I doubt I'd let a Death Marshal live long enough to box Willie. I hate those guys with a passion and we have enough min damage 3+ models to make sure they're out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I also don't see anything on Hoffman's cards or upgrades that allows him to directly effect non-friendly constructs. He can target them with Shakedown but that just drops a scrap... Check out his On Site Assimilation Upgrade again then my friend! It's pretty sweet. Hoffman can copy (0) and (1) actions from ANY Non-Leader Constructs using On Site Assimilation. The nastier stuff you bring against him the nastier he can become. Now I know what you're thinking. "It's only Ca 6" well it's not hard for Hoffman to reach Ca 10 making it very difficult to stop if targeting any enemy construct with it. All of a sudden he can have Lazarus' Grenade Launcher or Temporary Limb from a Large Arachnid to gain all Activation long. Hoffman is the King of Constructs, he just puts Ramos to shame when it comes to manipulating and supporting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hoffman is the King of Constructs, he just puts Ramos to shame when it comes to manipulating and supporting them. But does he have Spoiyders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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