How To Mei Feng?

[D_acolyte]

Lady Justice, Lilith, or Misaki are very focus when they are used as melee masters and give out a lot of damage generally to one model and can be very static when they get there. I swing and then you wing at me, not a lot of movement and positioning.

Mei is almost spastic one in how she does combat, I hit you then you and then you and now I push here and the I rail walk to here and hit some one new then you hit and I push away just to charge back in.

[Psientologist]

However, I may be slightly hypocritical with saying Mei isn't a melee master with the amount of turn 1 charges I do.

[Whut]

Typical melee master or no, mobility or no, combo based or no, I just feel like she's made for combat. Her primary shtick is to deal damage to enemies from a melee range - any support or ranged abilities obviously come secondary to this. That's all I mean when I say "melee master"

[Psientologist]

Vent Steam in certain match ups is far from secondary though.

 

Just watching any crew that is remotely reliant on Ca or Sh attacks when you have Vent Steam up is funny enough. The face in hands look from double vent steam and cover, either from terrain or something like Howard Langston's Steam Cloud is priceless.

[PolishSausage]

Last weekend I had a friend play pandora/stitched into my mey fang list. He will never do it again as turn one I railed walked and doubled steamed, turn two I triple steamed in the middle of the table and held objectives. Venting is a thing!

[Bengt]

Having said that, I feel like a lot of her problems stem from biting off more than she can chew and jumping into large groups of enemies, or against enemies who are just too powerful for her. 

How is this even remotely a problem with Mei Feng and her rules? It's not like there are any rules forcing you to move her somewhere where she'll be outmatched. Quite the opposite really as Railwalker makes her excellent at hit and run attacks or just getting out of dodge if your opponent tries to dogpile her.

[Whut]

How is this even remotely a problem with Mei Feng and her rules? It's not like there are any rules forcing you to move her somewhere where she'll be outmatched. Quite the opposite really as Railwalker makes her excellent at hit and run attacks or just getting out of dodge if your opponent tries to dogpile her.

Because you won't always have the spare AP to rail walk away? Or you may not want to spend that AP rail walking instead of hitting something? In recon or squatters you can rail walk to another portion of the board and be useful there. Not entirely the case I'm Turf war where you're either in the fight or not?

Honestly I don't know, but apparently she is dying so someone isn't rail walking her away. Or she's getting cut down by something that can catch up to her with a charge.

[admiralvorkraft]

Railwalk is pretty card intensive and can be unreliable, but then I constantly paralyze my own models with Lucius so my deck probably just hates me.

 

Mei Feng is certainly a puzzle. She's really flexible, has a lot of potential, and takes a lot of careful thought to make the most of her.

[Bengt]

Because you won't always have the spare AP to rail walk away? Or you may not want to spend that AP rail walking instead of hitting something? In recon or squatters you can rail walk to another portion of the board and be useful there. Not entirely the case I'm Turf war where you're either in the fight or not?

Honestly I don't know, but apparently she is dying so someone isn't rail walking her away. Or she's getting cut down by something that can catch up to her with a charge.

I'm going to posit that every model in the game has a limit to how many and of what quality opponent it can handle, every model. You stated that if you put Mei Feng against opposition above her limit she would go down and further claimed this was the main problem with Mei Feng. You are basically saying that if you make a mistake then it's the rules fault... or something... what are you saying?

[Psientologist]

Mei shouldn't be stuck in combat, save a high mask or card and stone for leap aside.

 

Rail walk is card intensive if you haven't kept those 7's you know she'll need, also you have decent chance to naturally flip it anyway.

 

A lot the "issues" here I'm honest sound like players not using their resources very well.

[Grez90]

I think the issue here is misinterperating Mei Feng, shes by no means a melee master (you can't call a model with the same damage profile as a rail worker a melee master), IMO shes a mobility master, the biggest problem is that the mobility comes at the deterament to the rest of your crew. You either need to be using your Emberling to drop precision scrap markers, or place your own constructs in such a way that railwalking can be done 2/3 times a turn to get to your destination. All of this would be easy to do, if you weren't going to fail this 48% of the time.

 

I may not have played her a lot, but what I am gathering when theorying is that she is not a model that can be thrown in, she needs to be kept on the verge, always picking off weak models (scheme runners) that are trying to get past your big hitters, and then on the turn where you have multiple scrap markers down and constructs in a decent mid table position, you ditch recalled training and go railwalking. This should mean you are less likely to cheat that railwalk (meaning more and more triggers if you need to get further across the board) and meaning you hit hard when you reach your destination.

 

Regarding her combat abilities, it all revolves around the placement of both Mei Feng and the enemy models, as the last thing you want is to only be able to hit one trigger off of "Tremors". The upgrades I'm thinking of using on her when I get round to trying her, is (Seismic Claws + Vapormancy + Recalled Training), this means that your hopefully building as much free AP as possible, as everyone knows Seismc Claws gives you more attacks, but Vapormancy gives you a crucial trigger off the Jackhammer kick to Vent Steam for free. It also means that you can charge in with recalled training, use scalding breath, cheat in severes to cause literally the same amount of damage as a severe would do on Tigers Claw, but also spread out more damage amongst more models (3 attacks with Vapormancy on a recalled training run can do 15 damage to target, and 9 to anything thats nearby) which is ideal for that Turf War issue a previous poster was having.

 

My personal belief is that Tigers Claw is too unreliable unless you have a surefire spot where you can rattle off 3/4 attacks from 1 AP due to horrible board position by your opponent. However, if this is something you are aiming to do, then maybe try to switch out Vapormancy for On Wings of Wind, allowing you to not only push your constructs into better positions wit ha (0) action (hardly something Mei has a lot of), and also push Mei into a better position for Tigers Claw/Railwalker at the end of the turn.

 

These are just a couple of ideas I've been having to try and get Mei to work, but I would not be enticed in that she is a melee master, theres a lot more behind the claws than her card suggests.

[Psientologist]

Well this is the Arcanist thread so Recalled training isn't an option.

Also with my minimal experience using her as a thunder since Crossroads I would vote for On Wings of Wind for all the reasons you have said Blutack.

 

2 models is all you need for rail walking for the most part, 1 fast construct and any other.

 

Howard, Rider, I'm sure there is more but these are my two go to's. These guys can be the second step and it's why as long as you save 2 7's or just 1 if you are feeling lucky you can charge anything you like (within reason) first turn... not that you should.

 

Conveniently both of these faster constructs are on big bases and Rail walk is a place so, you're around 26" from where you started and have a 10" threat range.

 

 

I still love Seismic claws, mostly for Roiling Ground.

Not only are you able to get 6 attacks in a turn but it's good at knocking people out of position.

Yes it does need a tome and you do only have Ml6 but this is why you pick your targets wisely.

This doesn't mean you can't fight the big scary things in the game, but don't go in without a semi decent hand and especially don't without stones!

[madaxeman]

I've found that Mei is a melee master that can sweep a couple of low-mid range models off the board in one turn with repeated trigger attacks - but against something beefy, that's where Joss or Howard come in. 

 

 

Could someone explain to me the benefit of multiple Vents though please - isn't it just cover for your models?  Does it stack?

[Psientologist]

The key thing is Vent steam is not cover.

 

It gives anyone targeting stuff in the     to CA and SH actions not just 

 

I'll be honest, I was never sure it stacked until the end of last year and it says it does in the FAQ and errata stuff.

 

Also not being cover means that Howard's Steam cloud which is cover gives a different bonus to stack with too 

[madaxeman]

Sarah. So it's an effect that has the same in-game effect as Cover, but isn't "cover" ... Easy mistake to make!

I can see why it seems odd to stack, as stacking a condition seems to need a "number". That makes more sense.

(On an unrelated note, I hit something three times with the Ice a Golem today, and git the trigger every time. Left it with a walk of -2 :-)

[admiralvorkraft]

I definitely agree you need to hang onto cards to railwalk with, I was just offering a possible reason for why someone would have trouble with it.

 

Generally I think people struggle with masters who offer a variety of valid moves compared to masters who want to be doing one specific thing. Rasputina wants to blow things off the board, Ramos wants to summon and buff, Mei Feng seems to want to rush in and punch things but her actual punches often leave something to be desired.

 

Yan Lo and the Viks both do the multiple attacks thing better than Mei, but Mei does much more board control with her attacks. The number of pushes she has is a little mind numbing and figuring out which action sequence will leave her and her opponents where you want them to be does take a level of Chess thinking that masters who just want to get in and kill things don't require.

 

I think if I've taken anything from this thread and my experience with Mei Feng it's that her real effectiveness is in controlling board position through her own place effects and her battery of pushes, while also providing limited defensive buffs to her own crew. Also, Vent Steam is nuts.

[Bengt]

Sarah. So it's an effect that has the same in-game effect as Cover, but isn't "cover" ... Easy mistake to make!

I can see why it seems odd to stack, as stacking a condition seems to need a "number". That makes more sense.

(On an unrelated note, I hit something three times with the Ice a Golem today, and git the trigger every time. Left it with a walk of -2 :-)

Conditions do need a number to stack. Vent steam is not a Condition though. The "Stacking" box on page 53 is very informative.

 

Regarding Cold Feet. The number has to be in the Condition name for it to stack (page 52, second paragraph, first sentence). Even if it did stack, a stat can not go below 1 (page 29, Math box).

[Whut]

I'm going to posit that every model in the game has a limit to how many and of what quality opponent it can handle, every model. You stated that if you put Mei Feng against opposition above her limit she would go down and further claimed this was the main problem with Mei Feng. You are basically saying that if you make a mistake then it's the rules fault... or something... what are you saying?

Like has already been said, Mei is a mobility piece that can jump around and kill cheap or moderate minions and perhaps cheap henchmen/enforcers. She is, like many people have said, not a heavy damage dealer. My problem is, who needs her? I admit vent steam is pretty good, but aside from that, she doesn't do anything that a henchman or enforcer can't do in any crew (Cassandra, also Firestarter does similar things at range, Cerberus/Blessed). You could even make an argument that Captain or a Waldgheist or Howard can simulate something close enough to her vent steam.

Of course these models might not be as mobile, but I feel they're mobile enough and deal nearly as much or just as much (if not more) damage than Mei, without using up the 1 slot you get for a master model.

Like I said, the only reason I would even look at Mei twice is for Kang (and maybe those Wave 3 gremlin foundry models). Oh how I wish Kang was dual faction...

Granted, this is all just my opinion

[Psientologist]

 My problem is, who needs her? I admit vent steam is pretty good, but aside from that, she doesn't do anything that a henchman or enforcer can't do in any crew (Cassandra, also Firestarter does similar things at range, Cerberus/Blessed). You could even make an argument that Captain or a Waldgheist or Howard can simulate something close enough to her vent steam.

Of course these models might not be as mobile, but I feel they're mobile enough and deal nearly as much or just as much (if not more) damage than Mei, without using up the 1 slot you get for a master model.

 

Once I read this I shouted what your screen name is.

 

WHUT?!

 

She does what a lot of those things you pointed out do, in one package.

 

No one has an effect that is the same as Vent Steam, because it works against Sh and Ca not just  actions so therefore can ruin so many days where a cover effect could not.

 

Also, she can deal a lot more damage than I think a lot of people here are really looking at. As Blutac (grez whatever) mentioned, there is a very high amount of damage potential with Scalding Breath.

Seismic Claws gives Mei the chance for 6 AP worth of attacks on a single model. Typically it's 5 as may get the first strike straight off of a Rail walk.

If taking the Effigy (which if you aren't you should) the "Radiance" effect is either gearing you up for  damage from the claws thanks to the burning (and additional damage they'll take) or you're stripping them of a massive resource which typically will allow you to get your hits in even if "only" Ml6.

 

Railwalker.

It may need "set up" but it so easy and arguably makes Mei the fastest thing in the game.

Sure I love the Cerberus as much as anyone but Leap is only getting it so far and it has barely any defense.

The Captain cannot push himself so is fairly slow.

 

Most of these models mentioned are not even soulstone users, this may not seem as big a deal as in the 1.5 days but soulstone for damage prevent (or the insane Leap aside) make Mei infinitely more resilient than these enforcers.

 

Granted, it is only your opinion but I don't agree with it. Sorry. 

[D_acolyte]

WHUT, once you sit down and deconstructing a master you find a lot of what many of them do can be in theory done by other models but this is theory crafting. Though theory crafting has a place I will tell you from experience that I use Mei very different from Howard, the Blessed or just about any of the models you listed except for Cassandra.

I do feel that if she is not in melee that she is having a poor day but that is about where it stops on similarities. She is highly adaptable in what she can fight and how she fights at the cost of being card and upgrade dependent. I have seen her be a cyclone of destruction and a gale of death in 2 different action points and then seamlessly jumps away. She is a great hit and run model and not to bad if she gets stucked in.

I do not think that Vent Steam stacks with multiple actions, can I get a reference on that?

Can anyone name a master in the arcanists that does not need a bit of set up not to excel?

Ramos - Nope, most kill a electrical creation with Joss setting up 2 scrap

Marcus - .... I have not played vs him or with him in this ed but making things beast works well for him, go Raptors

Karis - O GODS she is better after you put fire on things with someone else

Rasputina - .... tell me one person that does not take frozen heart models with her and scatter a few of them.

Iron Side - performers and the captain work well to bring people to her

Collet - it all about getting your prop I mean models in the right place

Mie - you need to set of you pain train

[PolishSausage]

that is why mei fang loves effigy + howard, people will refuse to drop cards to stop burning if howard has not gone yet

[Whut]

@Psi - what a fantastic post. Really, I'm not kidding, that was great, it actually got me a little excited for Mei, even.

The Arcane Effigy is actually pretty cool with her, I never thought of that for up to 5 or 6 extra burning damage.

So has it ever happened that you vent steam and your opponent simply shoots or casts at something else? Like if you can't lure this Rail Worker, just lure that one over there.

What does the rest of the list look like? Is it mostly metal gamin, Rail workers, and other constructs? How far can you really expect her to push? Can she handle H2W? I'm a tad worried about that min damage 2 being a hindrance.

And of course my favorite question - what is she better at than the top 4 (imo) Colette, Ramos, Rasputina and Kaeris?

[Dirial]

Can she handle H2W? I'm a tad worried about that min damage 2 being a hindrance.

 

Dita and Leve are weak 2, too. Just saying.

[Whut]

Dita and Leve are weak 2, too. Just saying.

Both of those have ranged attacks so its a bit different I think. Dita can also ignore armor or incorporeal and has Crit, and Levi ignores everything including H2W and H2K

[Bengt]

I do not think that Vent Steam stacks with multiple actions, can I get a reference on that?

Page 53, stacking box. It starts with "most effects stack", then lists exception, non of which apply to Vent Steam. It's important to remember that Vent Steam isn't a Condition.