Cheap Neverborn filler models

[Math Mathonwy]

Other Factions seem to offer a lot of choice for models costing three or four SS but Neverborn seem to be really lacking there. These cheap models are, I think, useful in upping the number of activations. Often they are Scheme Runners but there usually are options for other things as well. Not so with the Neverborn, however.

In the three SS bracket Neverborn have Alps and then four has Wicked Dolls and Terror Tots. Tots are good but would you ever hire Wicked Dolls outside of a Collodi Crew and would you ever hire Alps?

Depleted are awesome in Reconnoiter but otherwise their Insignificant status limits them pretty harshly. Gupps I'm not sure about. They are a bit weird and all in all it seems that Tots are mostly better?

Finally, there's the Effigy who isn't bad but is Rare 1 and the Rapid Acceleration is a bit situational though Disguised Fate is pure gold.

And even when you go higher to five SS, there's nothing amazing. Iggy is sorta nice but a bit weird, Sorrows are lackluster, Insidious Madness is awesome but just a Scheme Runner.

Is it simply a Neverborn thing that their cheap stuff is a bit lackluster while their moderate cost models rock?

[MasterDisaster]

Wait for Wave 3... Corrupted Hounds will be a thing! 

 

To be fair though I think Neverborn have one or two great low cost choices but for the most part they are crappy or really situational when compared to other factions (Guild and Ressers for example). However Neverborn do have some amazing high cost models. Mature Nephilim, Widow Weaver, Nekima, Bad Juju, Coppelius, Teddy etc. 

[Dirial]

I don't know.

 

Gupps and Tots seem on equal footing for me. They do similar things for different situations.

 

Depleted are all around awesome. They aren't bad in Turf War either, and including one as support for an Illuminated is the Schnitzel. (Everything you can push into Lady J and see her waste an entire activation for killing 4 SS is good in my opponents' books.)

 

Changelings and Hounds are coming. I don't see the Neverborn having a significant disadvantage here.

[MasterDisaster]

Good point, I forgot about Gupps. As far as scheme runners go Neverborn have some of the best around only really contested by Canine Remains, Necropunks and Crooligans. Most other factions can't boast cheap scheme runners of that caliber. Whilst Outcasts have Void Wretches, Guild have Watchers and Hounds, Ten Thunders have Tengu, Arcanists have Spiders etc and screw gremlins, none of the other factions scheme runners have as much speed or versatility as Neverborn or Ressers and can claim such a low cost. The only exception to this I can see really is Watchers with Hoffman, he makes them pretty ridiculous!

[zFiend]

Wait for wave 3 doesn't really bring comfort. It's like saying wait til year 2020 you'll get your scheme runners.

[MasterDisaster]

Nah, it'll be out Soon™

[PraetorDragoon]

Maybe it will go quick this time? 

 

Overall I never had issues with the cheap point. Alps are good, and neverborn have lots of solid choices at 4ss point. (Gupps, Depleted, Tots, Wicked Dolls, Mysterious Effigy) 

 

I don't see the problem?

[MasterDisaster]

Maybe it will go quick this time? 

 

Overall I never had issues with the cheap point. Alps are good, and neverborn have lots of solid choices at 4ss point. (Gupps, Depleted, Tots, Wicked Dolls, Mysterious Effigy) 

 

I don't see the problem?

 

Maybe the problem is perception, many of the other factions have arguably better 4ss choices and that is why the Neverborn seem to have less optimal choices in this catagory? I don't know, I think Tots and Gupps are some of the best 4ss options around. 

[asrian]

Gupps, Tots, and Depleted I find good for their points.

Wicked Dolls, Mysterious Effigy, and Alps I don't think are worth the points to hire/use. I would only ever summon them in, but that's a personal opinion.

[Adran]

Gupps/Tots are amongst the best scheme runners out there, and both only cost 4.

Depleted are very tanky for a 4ss model.

Effigies are worth it for the stat line alone.

 

I played around with Wicked dolls, and they have soem interesting uses, poison and healing can be interesting.

Alps can be handy in many situations. I probably wouldn't hire that many, but you can get soemthing thats worth its 3 ss.

Primordial magic! I know its a totem, so if you hire a different totem, you can't hire it, but what you get for 2 ss is amazing.

 

I don't see a problem.

[Math Mathonwy]

Maybe it will go quick this time? 

 

Overall I never had issues with the cheap point. Alps are good, and neverborn have lots of solid choices at 4ss point. (Gupps, Depleted, Tots, Wicked Dolls, Mysterious Effigy) 

 

I don't see the problem?

I just don't see Alps or Wicked Dolls being viable. In theory Wicked Dolls would be exactly what I wanted but they look way too squishy.

Gupps and Tots are good as Scheme Runners but don't do much else (as they shouldn't at that price point!). Depleted are Insignificant but yeah, they aren't bad. And the Effigy is nice.

But compared to Arcanists who have three types of Gamin (two of which are awesome for pretty much everyone and one which isn't bad), Arachnids, Molemen, and the Effigy the Neverborn seem a bit sad. Or Gremlins with their Bayou Gremlins (so versatile, so cheap!). Or Ressers with their slew of insanely good five point models making the whole problem less - and they still have Crooligans and Night Terrors and Canine Remains at the under 5SS bracket.

I mean, all I know is that when I make a list for Zoraida, it tends to be outnumbered pretty easily and I find that if I have Silurids as Scheme Runners, there is very few options in the low SS cost stuff that I'd want.

[PraetorDragoon]

Wicked Dolls have preformed pretty well for me. I enjoy using them more than tots. They are as squishy as tots, so I don't think that isn't much of a problem. They do have a lot of utility tricks however, which certainly shouldn't be underestimated. Sewn in Poison can slightly increase damage to more intimidating levels, healing 1 wd can make a world of difference (and has a nice condition to boot) They also have a suprising amount of mobility on their triggers. 

[MasterDisaster]

Wicked Dolls have preformed pretty well for me. I enjoy using them more than tots. They are as squishy as tots, so I don't think that isn't much of a problem. They do have a lot of utility tricks however, which certainly shouldn't be underestimated. Sewn in Poison can slightly increase damage to more intimidating levels, healing 1 wd can make a world of difference (and has a nice condition to boot) They also have a suprising amount of mobility on their triggers. 

 

Sounds like they have their uses but they still haven't got anything on Necropunks or Crooligans who are probably the two best scheme runners in the game. 

[PraetorDragoon]

Sounds like they have their uses but they still haven't got anything on Necropunks or Crooligans who are probably the two best scheme runners in the game. 

 

To be fair, Necropunks are kinda underpriced. But does it matter, as they cannot be hired by Neverborn masters?

 

I think all low cost Neverborn models have their uses, but you kinda need multiple of them to be effective. 

[Dirial]

I think all low cost Neverborn models have their uses, but you kinda need multiple of them to be effective. 

 

You still talking about Neverborn, or about Guild?

[zFiend]

Guild?

Get that dirty Guild talk out of here.

[lusciousmccabe]

Gupps and Tots are good as Scheme Runners but don't do much else (as they shouldn't at that price point!). Depleted are Insignificant but yeah, they aren't bad. And the Effigy is nice.

 

 

I think one of the things that makes it feel like there isn't much choice is that most cheap models in Neverborn are really specialised with one or two outstandingly strong abilities and not much else. Other factions maybe have more general purpose cheap models you can field without worrying so much about the scenario or the composition of the rest of your crew.

[Dirial]

I think one of the things that makes it feel like there isn't much choice is that most cheap models in Neverborn are really specialised with one or two outstandingly strong abilities and not much else. Other factions maybe have more general purpose cheap models you can field without worrying so much about the scenario or the composition of the rest of your crew.

 

Ironically, one of the points my opponent argued about Changelings during the beta was that "if I field a 4 SS model, I expect to know beforehand what it will do".

[Adran]

Sounds like they have their uses but they still haven't got anything on Necropunks or Crooligans who are probably the two best scheme runners in the game. 

?

I'd probably put Necropunks just up top because of the healing, but then place Gupps, followed by Tots, with cruligans 4th.

The only advantage Cruligans have is that they can from the shadows, but thats probably countered by the sprint on the tots and the Tot actually able to interact on the first turn.

(And I'm aware that many people rate tots higher than Gupps, but my pesonal preference is for consistancy over raw speed)

 

Leap lets you put 1.5 scheme markers a turn. Both Gupps and Necrpunkks will complete Line in the sand on turn 3. The Tot should do it turn 4. The Cruligan will manage it turn 5. (as will the canine remains)

You get similar rates for any other scheme. (Seriously, I can't think of any scheme pool in which the Cruligan beats the other 3 as an option)

 

Cruligans are solid 4 ss, but I can't see why they are raved about so much.

 

(Mind you I also don't generally rate the Gamin. I know I'm in the minority, but to me the metal Gamin is probably the least useful model in the Arcanist faction, and until I tried them with hoffman, thought they were the least useful model in the game)

[Dirial]

Mind you I also don't generally rate the Gamin. I know I'm in the minority, but to me the metal Gamin is probably the least useful model in the Arcanist faction, and until I tried them with hoffman, thought they were the least useful model in the game

 

I don't think much of Ice and Fire Gamin, but Metal Gamin are Satan's spawn. Those things are just plain evil. A 4 SS model with HtK, Armor 2, Df 6, and effective weak Damage 3? Madness.

[MasterDisaster]

I don't think much of Ice and Fire Gamin, but Metal Gamin are Satan's spawn. Those things are just plain evil. A 4 SS model with HtK, Armor 2, Df 6, and effective weak Damage 3? Madness.

 

Fire Gamin are alright with Kaeris but outside of her crew they have somewhat limited uses although I suspect Mei Feng could make use of them. 

[zFiend]

I don't think much of Ice and Fire Gamin, but Metal Gamin are Satan's spawn. Those things are just plain evil. A 4 SS model with HtK, Armor 2, Df 6, and effective weak Damage 3? Madness.

Yeah. They are absolutely ridiculous.

[Math Mathonwy]

Leap lets you put 1.5 scheme markers a turn. Both Gupps and Necrpunkks will complete Line in the sand on turn 3. The Tot should do it turn 4. The Cruligan will manage it turn 5. (as will the canine remains)

You get similar rates for any other scheme. (Seriously, I can't think of any scheme pool in which the Cruligan beats the other 3 as an option)

 

Cruligans are solid 4 ss, but I can't see why they are raved about so much.

I do use them quite a bit but I do agree with you that they aren't all that special compared to Gupps or Tots or Tengus or Watchers or whatever. Very solid Scheme runners but so are Tots. Now, the Wp debuff is really nice and Poison can have nice synergy and Mist can be really good so they do offer some things beyond Scheme running but then again Tots have Pounce (and Neverborn have quite a few Pushes and Lures and such) and Gupps have the Wail though I'm not sure how often that is used.

 

(Mind you I also don't generally rate the Gamin. I know I'm in the minority, but to me the metal Gamin is probably the least useful model in the Arcanist faction, and until I tried them with hoffman, thought they were the least useful model in the game)

They are really tough, quite deadly (for their cost when they protect themselves) and have an insane (0) Action if the opponent brought Constructs. Also they are Significant Minions with the M&SU status. I don't understand what there is to "rate" about them - they are very simple and very capable.

Fire Gamin are surprisingly good shooters for their cost, really. 10" range, effective weak damage of three and blasts (which, though not likely to do much, does affect how the opponent places their models). Better than Guild Autopsies, who are not bad.

[enderwiggin]

Yeah. They are absolutely ridiculous.

 

They'd be pretty in line with the other gamin if they simply couldn't target themselves. Not that there'd be too many terribly upset about taking more, but it would force them to somewhat group up then.

[Patzer]

All of the Gamins are solid if not outstanding at times. The Metal Gamin my favourite of them, but the others certainly have their places and uses too.

 

Neverborns' cheaper models are fine I think, they all do a certain role very well, but there is a lack of them. The faction could really use some more 5ss models, as well as a decent 3ss model (which is coming) 

 

In general though, Ressers and Gremlins have the best filler models. "Oh, my list is nearly only beaters... How can I fit in two Night Terrors or Bayou Gremlins to get my numbers up?".