Getting the most out of Leveticus

[ierthling]

I've been playing Leveticus pretty steadily lately, and really loving him. Might be headed to my first tournament soon, so I'm starting to think about whether or not I'm getting everything out of him I can. The one aspect of his mechanics I haven't managed to do a lot of is summoning abominations.

 

I've had great luck taking Leveticus along with a lot of pretty durable, effective anchors: Rusty A, Ashes & D, Lazarus, Johanna, Taelor, Convict Gunslingers have all done good service to me. Taking Pariah of Iron and loading up on all my favorite arcanist constructs makes it even easier. When I want serious summoning, I take the Mech Rider.

 

But I don't find myself triggering the "summon an abom when you kill an enemy model" thing very often - honestly I've done it a couple of times in something like ten games with him. Levi reliably kills stuff, and so does Alyce, but even with the upgrade to add the summoning trigger to their ranged attacks I just don't find it's very often worth the soulstone it would take to guarantee the crow.

 

Do other people find themselves really building crews around summoning? Taking Alyce's scrap marker / summoning upgrade? Spawning abominations with Ashes and Dust? Or is this (as it's been for me) an occasional bonus that's not worth focusing on?

 

Thanks!

[Kadeton]

The only time I really build summoning crews with Levy is in Reconnoiter (or the new Strategy that's a modified version of it), and that's just to stay competitive with the Ramos, Nicodem and Dreamer crews that dominate those Strategies. Levy is quite good at winning the summoning-attrition game by converting enemy models into friendly models without the intervening Marker step, and by denying resources (killed Abominations drop whichever type of Marker the opponent doesn't want).

To build a summoning crew, I generally just take Desolate Soul on both Levy and Alyce, add Ashes & Dust, and leave it at that. Even then, I usually won't spend lots of resources trying to ensure summons - if I happen to have a high Crow in hand then I'll start looking for summoning opportunities, but I won't often spend stones on it (the exception being if it's late in the turn and the summon will win me a table quarter). If you flip a Crow at the right time, woo-hoo, free dude! I'm not particularly fond of Alyce's scrap-summoning upgrade.

In the past, I ran a lot of heavy-summoning builds that tried to bring out Desolation Engines as quickly as possible, but I found it wasn't very effective. Abominations aren't difficult to kill, and getting them close together in preparation for an Engine makes them more vulnerable. I also found that Engines are kind of a trap - most of the time, four Abominations will be far more useful to winning the game than a single Engine, even if they do nothing but chew up activations and annoy the opponent by shutting down (0) Actions.

[Verdeloth]

As a new levi owner the 4 abo that comes with box will not be enough i guess? Will need the extra pack

[Kadeton]

It depends! Most of the time, I run Levy without any Abominations and no summoning upgrades, so I only bring Abominations into play when the Ashes & Dust pulls one out of some hapless victim. If you're happy going that direction (and with the widest hiring pool in the game, there's plenty more options to choose from) then you won't need any extra. Even if you take a summoning upgrade or two, if you don't focus on going all-out Abom-factory, they'll die quickly enough that you won't need more than four - they're easy for the opponent to kill and super annoying to leave alive, so they've got big targets on their heads.

If you want to focus on making as many Abominations as possible, then yeah, you can easily get more than four in play, especially if you also intend to hire some.

[daniello_s]

I have 6 in total but 4 is enough to be honest.

Most of time I have 1 in the list to get cheap activation and bite Lazarus for extra card. Rest of them are usually summoned from Levy's/Rusty's/Ashes' death victims

[ierthling]

Yeah, I've also really found myself disappointed by the Desolation Engine. I get way more utility out of Ashes and Dust for the points, and even from cheaper models like Rusty and Lazarus (to say nothing of Hank, Mech Rider, etc.). The idea of focusing the effort to make four abominations and then position them to combine into a Desolation Engine seems like a real distraction to me. But I'd love to hear from people who've had more luck with that approach to Leveticus, because otherwise I'm really loving playing him.

[Kirby]

The only time I've found summoning a Desolation Engine to be worthwhile is when I was already ahead, so it was more of a nail-in-the-coffin situation.  For the points I'd hire Ashes and Dust, and if I felt the need for a second beater I'd hire Killjoy - who would pop out of the A&D delivery system.

[daniello_s]

I played Engine few times but mostly as already bought in the crew rather than summoned. Always it was a good craic

[SpectreEliteGaming]

DE is better than people give it credit for - think of it as a big ass tarpit you throw at your opponent and then don't care anymore while keeping them tied up with it for a turn or two - he really shines with movement tricks and in close deployment. If you outactivate your opponent and DE goes last it can be a massacre. He's also almost an auto-take for me in 35ss Henchman games with Rusty. I think the problem is is that people have the wrong expectations for DE. They think either they will summon it during the course of the game (the real threat is the RE-summoning) or that its a big indestructible force (like peacekeeper). He's more like Nothing Beast - you need to use him appropriately.

My summoning Levy crew is Levy w/ Rusty, Ashes, and Mech Rider. I never take any upgrades on Alyce. She's just solid support - especially vs. Ressers and A/D is just good. The real backbone of a levy summoning crew is just levy and the rider, really (for me, anyway).

[moxypoo]

Specter, I think you're in my head stealing my thoughts...haha

 

I agree that people don't give the Desolation Engine it's due, and I think this stems from the fact that most people want it to go toe to toe with the likes of a Peacekeeper, Howard, or a Rail Golem.  The DE generally wants to be picking on models in the 5-7 SS range that it can easily massacre and that can't do much to kill it in return.  It's a huge distraction, because the enemy MUST kill it or it will wreak havoc.  The key is to support it properly and keep in mind that it really only "costs" 5SS (fuzzy math, I know).

 

My summoning list is Leveticus and Rusty with Desolate Soul, a DE, and A&D (10SS remaining to tailor for the schemes more).  A&D keeps Rusty out of melee and generally makes a nuisance of itself, while Rusty obliterates things and hopefully summons Abominations.  The DE attempts to engage and tie up enemy models while Leveticus shoots into combat (if he hits the DE, who cares?  The DE gets a free attack and will almost always heal at least as much damage as he takes from Unnmaking).  Your opponent has to be very wary of any of these models striking the killing blow, because they all have Desolate Warping.

 

The one strategy I commonly run my Levy summoning list in is Reconnoiter.  You gain a 2 model swing in that table quarter most times you kill an enemy model, which is huge for gaining Reconnoiter points.  Your opponent also has to keep in mind that killing the DE increases your scoring model count by 1 in that quarter, a mistake I've seen more than once.  If I'm feeling particularly saucy, I'll bring in a 3 Malifaux Rat/Obedient Wretch package, because it turns into 2 scoring models turn one, and unless your opponent sends a heavy hitter to quickly annihilate it, can quickly overwhelm a table quarter with no outside support.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Yeah, its funny because most of the time it seems that if you reply before me I feel very little need to say anything... lots of posts, on outcasts board in particular, I pretty much agree with everything you say, lol.

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The other thing too is a Levy summoner list is great stuff vs. Lilith, in general (which is usually a scary matchup regardless) - drop mech rider for the DE and send that up first... if she tangles shadows with that then... good? With a ryle/DE/ashes anchor package she's not going to be able to do much if she can't get to ryle... then late turn push him up with a waif and he'll eat any stragglers. Otherwise you'll probably need an additional anchor if you're a cagey player... I usually suicide run Levy first turn for a key model... I only need two waifs... first one's free!

[Kadeton]

I think this stems from the fact that most people want it to go toe to toe with the likes of a Peacekeeper, Howard, or a Rail Golem.  The DE generally wants to be picking on models in the 5-7 SS range that it can easily massacre and that can't do much to kill it in return.

That doesn't really make any sense to me. Any 11+ SS model can slaughter 5-7 SS models all day long without breaking a sweat, and the Engine offers nothing special in this regard. You want expensive models to take the opponent's expensive models head-on (and stop them from slaughtering your own mid-range scheme runners). Since the Engine can't go toe-to-toe with the likes of Howard, Nekima, the Peacekeeper and so on, I don't see the point.

It could be argued that the opponent's heavy-hitters can be taken care of by Levy, leaving the Engine to rampage through the enemy crew. That's probably true, but it's basically a win-more situation - if you've already annihilated a huge chunk of the enemy forces, they're going to struggle no matter what else you've got. In fact, it's probably more advantageous to have two extra mid-range scheme runners than a heavy hitter in that situation.

The final nail for me is the fact that the Outcasts already have two of the game's best heavy hitters in the Ashes & Dust and Killjoy, and I'd never consider hiring the Engine over either of them. There are also the plethora of alternatives that Levy can draw from, including the Peacekeeper, Howard and the Rail Golem, not to mention the second-string utility beaters like Bishop and Taelor.

I don't want to dissuade anyone from using the Engine (put it on the table and draw your own conclusions!), just thought I should give some more detail about why it hasn't worked for me personally.

[daniello_s]

DE can kill multiple opponents during its activation. 3 attacks can easily kill enemy model when his pulses can add some extra damage.

DE is nice alternative for A&D or Killjoy.

[Adran]

That doesn't really make any sense to me. Any 11+ SS model can slaughter 5-7 SS models all day long without breaking a sweat, and the Engine offers nothing special in this regard. You want expensive models to take the opponent's expensive models head-on (and stop them from slaughtering your own mid-range scheme runners). Since the Engine can't go toe-to-toe with the likes of Howard, Nekima, the Peacekeeper and so on, I don't see the point.

It could be argued that the opponent's heavy-hitters can be taken care of by Levy, leaving the Engine to rampage through the enemy crew. That's probably true, but it's basically a win-more situation - if you've already annihilated a huge chunk of the enemy forces, they're going to struggle no matter what else you've got. In fact, it's probably more advantageous to have two extra mid-range scheme runners than a heavy hitter in that situation.

The final nail for me is the fact that the Outcasts already have two of the game's best heavy hitters in the Ashes & Dust and Killjoy, and I'd never consider hiring the Engine over either of them. There are also the plethora of alternatives that Levy can draw from, including the Peacekeeper, Howard and the Rail Golem, not to mention the second-string utility beaters like Bishop and Taelor.

I don't want to dissuade anyone from using the Engine (put it on the table and draw your own conclusions!), just thought I should give some more detail about why it hasn't worked for me personally.

 

The Engine is better at dealing with a swarm than the other big hitters named for 3 reasons. (Although Ashes matches it a lot)

1 It has 3 attacks that can be at different targets.

2 It does area damage

3 It can summon more models.

 

I would say that it can go toe to toe with most of those models if you are following alternate activations, allowing it the heal from its attacks.

What it can't do is survive two activations from one of those without it activating in between. (or facign one of these and another model)

But it is typically a very good target for Rusty Alyce Burn out due to its rapid healing, and re-summonability as long as you can get the activation control. Much more so than any other model.

[moxypoo]

Yeah, its funny because most of the time it seems that if you reply before me I feel very little need to say anything... lots of posts, on outcasts board in particular, I pretty much agree with everything you say, lol.

 

I can say the same thing!  Great minds (or at least crazy ones  ) think alike haha.

 

That doesn't really make any sense to me. Any 11+ SS model can slaughter 5-7 SS models all day long without breaking a sweat, and the Engine offers nothing special in this regard. You want expensive models to take the opponent's expensive models head-on (and stop them from slaughtering your own mid-range scheme runners). Since the Engine can't go toe-to-toe with the likes of Howard, Nekima, the Peacekeeper and so on, I don't see the point.

 

My point may have been a little unclear: when I play the DE, it's going after multiple weaker models instead of chasing down, say, a lone Silurid or Necropunk.  With its 50mm base and 3" engagement range, your opponent has to keep models > ~8" apart for the DE to be unable to engage multiple models.  Our difference in opinion may also be from a difference in playstyle. 

 

I've observed that a lot of people send 10+SS models to fight the enemy 10+SS model 1 on 1; however, my motto is that "there's no kill like overkill."  That's a bit of an exaggeration, but if I want to kill Howard, for example, he's going to have to deal with twice his SS cost in models.  I don't like to gamble and want to be assured that I can kill an enemy model when it needs to die.  My style is also more of a control/passive style, and I only spend AP on killing models that I predict will score my opponent VP or advance his board position. I also use Levy as my assassin - a lot of high cost models rely on Armor to protect them, so Levy eats them alive and my other heavy hitters can rampage unchecked. So that's why I use the DE to bully multiple models half its cost rather than sending it to fight a single high-cost enemy model; if I can tie up a bunch of models with a DE but not kill a single one the entire game, I'm happy with the DE's performance.

 

DE can kill multiple opponents during its activation. 3 attacks can easily kill enemy model when his pulses can add some extra damage.

DE is nice alternative for A&D or Killjoy.

 

Exactly.  The DE is great at smashing multiple weaker models (especially if their weak damage is 1 or 2), while Killjoy is better at eliminating a single high value target.  I certainly use both models, but in different situations.

 

I wanted to add one more point about Leveticus in Reconnoiter.  I think that Desolate Soul on Levy is an auto-include upgrade with this strategy.  In my experience, many players will take summoners for Reconnoiter, and these masters tend to summon moderately to heavily damaged models, making them easy prey for Unmaking and Desolate Warping.  Getting a two model swing (turning an enemy model into an Abomination) can really mess up an opponent's game plan for Reconnoiter points.

[jonahmaul]

Was discussing Levi with a mate recently and he came up with a great combination for summoning Levi.

 

Give him the Tally Sheet upgrade that let's you draw a card whenever you kill a model (a pretty easy thing to do with Levi) and take the Hodgepodge Effigy.  Effigy does his (0) action on Levi to allow you to discard a card to add a SS to your pool when killing a model.  Levi activates and burns a SS to add the correct suit for summoning to kill said target and summon an Abomination.  Then draw a card for Tally Sheet and discard a card to add a SS to your pool.  At the end of it you have the same number of cards (perhaps replacing a poor one in your hand for a good one) and gain back the SS it cost for summon the Abomination.

[moxypoo]

Was discussing Levi with a mate recently and he came up with a great combination for summoning Levi.

 

Give him the Tally Sheet upgrade that let's you draw a card whenever you kill a model (a pretty easy thing to do with Levi) and take the Hodgepodge Effigy.  Effigy does his (0) action on Levi to allow you to discard a card to add a SS to your pool when killing a model.  Levi activates and burns a SS to add the correct suit for summoning to kill said target and summon an Abomination.  Then draw a card for Tally Sheet and discard a card to add a SS to your pool.  At the end of it you have the same number of cards (perhaps replacing a poor one in your hand for a good one) and gain back the SS it cost for summon the Abomination.

 

Tried this once, and it's really brutal.  For added fun, take Pariah of Iron and the Brutal Effigy for more than twice the brutality!

 

Brutal Effigy can either replace Tally Sheet or let you draw 2 cards for every killed model, which gets out of hand pretty quickly.

[daniello_s]

I have used Levy-Tally Sheet-Hodgepodge combi few times already - works beautifully.

With Brutal Effigy looks more... brutal but the trick is not having opponent run away with his model which is going to die from Levy's hands. With one Effigy is not possible as you activate Effigy, use its 0 action and then Accomplice Levy and kill poor bugger. With two Effigies you need to activate first construct, use 0 action, accomplice second Effigy, use 0 action and hope that the victim will not run away screaming loudly

[Kirby]

Wow.  That's just mean.  Gonna have to try that against my Nicodem buddy...

[SpectreEliteGaming]

The problem with Tally Sheet is that its going to have to replace one of your upgrades. I don't see myself taking the sheet over either PoI or Oathkeeper if it comes down to that. :/

If you're running a base Levy Crew it would be an interesting consideration.

[Kalkris]

I was thinking about taking Leve with PoI, Tally Sheet, and Desolate Soul in a strat like Turf War, omitting To the Earth Return for Tally Sheet. My thought is that triggering Unnatural Wasting interferes with the oft-necessary trigger of Desolate Warping from Desolate Soul, meaning you either kill a model dead or you make an Abom when it is actually dead. Being that the Abom off of a killed model is more important for board presence than the dead model most of the time in the context of a Leve crew, I figure that is sound. However, I'm not sure if I am correct in my thinking here now that it's being brought up... Any suggestions?

 

And, if Tally Sheet isn't a huge deal, is there a better configuration for Construct-Leve's 2 non-PoI upgrades in a Turf War-or-analogue context? If someone PMs me for a list, I would give them my list because if Tally Sheet doesn't work, I kind of want the Brutal Effigy in there too but presently lack the room.

 

Thanks!

 

~Lil Kalki

[Kirby]

I don't feel that To the Earth Return and Desolate Soul interfere with each other.  You will aim for rams when targeting a fresh high-wound model because it deals half of the model's current remaining wounds and aim for crows when you're going to kill the target.  With Channeling for a "free" positive flip on attack and damage, you generally have a pretty good idea of when you are looking to kill something with Unmaking.

[Kalkris]

I suppose that's true, but I like the idea of Tally Sheer as well. Do you think, then, that Desolate Soul should go in favor of Tally Sheet, Kirb?

 

~Lil Kalki

[daniello_s]

Unless you don't care with raising Abominations from Unmaking, then Desolate Soul is not needed and can be replaced with Tally Sheet.

But if you are so hungry of extra cards take Lazarus and one Abomination. Abomination bites Lazarus for extra card and then he heals himself. One extra card per turn guaranteed

[moxypoo]

Another thing you can do for extra cards is to have Abominations use VIle Reclamation on Ashes and Dust and then have Levy sacrifice it to draw 2 cards, only for it to reform at the end of the turn.  You can draw a whole bunch of cards this way to supercharge your hand for the next turn!