Dafty Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Scale of 1-5 I personally rate it as 4. But in most games it will some times hit 5. And occasionally a 10. As in you lose that flip you lose cards having no bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Rate it relative to what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Scale of 1-5 I personally rate it as 4. But in most games it will some times hit 5. And occasionally a 10. As in you lose that flip you lose cards having no bearing. Huh? *scratches head* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Rate it relative to what? How sexy it is of course! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm guessing that the expanded version of this statement was: "Rate the importance of winning the initiative flip on a scale of 1-5, with 1 being unimportant and 5 being essential". I don't think I can give a blanket answer - it varies turn by turn and game by game. I will say that I almost always have a Doppelganger in my crew so that I can cheat an initiative flip when I absolutely positively have to win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafty Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Importance. To you personally. As an overall. Not specifically that one game it made all the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Scale of 1-5 I personally rate it as 4. But in most games it will some times hit 5. And occasionally a 10. As in you lose that flip you lose cards having no bearing. I'm guessing this is aimed at my comments Play for a few years where you win on average 1 initiative flip a game. then you learn to play without having initiative. One way to counter it is when you know that there is one match up that is going to go with the winner of Initiative, set up another one that would also go to which ever model activates first. (Doesn't work if they have companion liek abilities...) Over all I rate it a 3. Some turns its a 5, some turns its a 1. I try to create those turns when its a one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafty Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Not specifically aimed at you. But just a over all. Tara players like winning so they drop beasties on people. Arcanist got seize the day. Guild with sleuthing. Gremlins with trixxiebelle. Nb with doppelganger. Upgrades and models are about for this flip. Just curious on other people's view points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 How sexy it is of course! Then it depends on the gender of my Master. I just like it when girls take initiative! *Ba-dumms* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I could give you a one week ban for that joke right there. My 2p; Players control how important the initiative flip is through their play. Either player can choose to play in a way that maximises or minimises the importance of the initiative flip. Generally speaking you'll want to play so as to minimise it's importance to you as a player, sometimes you'll want to risk it all. Good play in Malifaux is often about risk management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I could give you a one week ban for that joke right there. YES! Put on that hat and do it, one Guild free week! EDIT: Oh right, something on topic as well.. I am really having fun with Seize the Day upgrade. Man it's amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 And that's what Guild makes the rest of us feel like. "Perdita?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Then it depends on the gender of my Master. I just like it when girls take initiative! *Ba-dumms* *Sigh* Dude... seriously? I could give you a one week ban for that joke right there. Oh lawdy lawd please do it! Back on topic, the initiative flip really is very situational. Sometimes if you are at a critical point in the game you may very well need that flip to save the day. Other times you can take it or leave it. It's dependent on so many factors including faction, your crew, their crew, turn number, VP etc it's difficult to quantify the value of it. For example Turn 1 I'd say it's 1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5 because rarely does anything eventful happen however after that it's anyone's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Oh lawdy lawd please do it! Your allegiance is a fragile thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Your allegiance is a fragile thing. Agreed. Some hours ago, he asked me for support against you. Still, I agree with his on-topic stuff. Sigh. That's politics for you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 most cases its a 1 for me. When I win it, depending on no. of models I'll usually force my opponent to go first. Only when I'm needing to do something critical will it go to 3. I've never burnt a ss to reflip. MythicFox has it, you should minimise the need to get activation order. Most of the time when people are fighting over initiative, its to get the combat on and only occasionally is combat the deciding factor in strategies and schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafty Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 If the initiative flip was a sliding bar. You minimizing the the impact should increase your opponents need to win it. Not always true but again average/generally. But in my experience the enemy ruins most plans. As do cards lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think it really just depends on what's happening in the game. Sometimes intiative doesn't really matter, sometimes it can change the entire game. I lost an initiative flip and lost Johan and Taelor in Activation 1, Turn 2 of a 25 SS game, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The importance varies so much that I'm going to rate it carrot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Agreed. Some hours ago, he asked me for support against you. Still, I agree with his on-topic stuff. Sigh. That's politics for you.... The Guild are as corrupt as the year is long. I'm just channeling my inner Lucius! The importance varies so much that I'm going to rate it carrot. This made me laugh to hard I snorted... right in the middle of my office Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The importance varies so much that I'm going to rate it carrot. I believe "squirrel" is a more appropriate rating. Carrots are too straight and on point for this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I believe "squirrel" is a more appropriate rating. Carrots are too straight and on point for this discussion. Perhaps you are right, but I believe the proper scientific name is Tree Rat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 In all seriousness, the importance of the initiative flip is what you and your opponent make of it. If you play the end of your turn to set yourself up for a big turn if you win initiative, then it becomes important. If you play your end of the turn to mitigate the effect of losing initiative on the following turn, then the importance of the initiative flip should be reduced. Personally, I tend to (if I can) set myself up to not need to win the following initiative flip first. If I can do that an also benefit from winning the initiative flip, then I feel I'm in a strong position. However, I'll shoot for mitigating the effect of the initiative flip first. I know other players are bigger gamblers/more agressive and will try to set themselves up for a big advantage if they win the initiative flip, though that often means they're in trouble if they lose the flip. If you've got rules that modify the initiative flip, then you're more likely to try to set up those big initial pushes. An example of this might be doing a double walk to move into melee range at the end of the turn so you can flurry to begin the next turn. In this case, if you win initiative your opponent will hurt. Conversely, if you've walked into engagement with your opponent's big beatstick, then losing the initiative flip will be painful for you. In my case (where I prefer mitigating initiative over increasing its importance), if I see your big beatstick near my big beatstick, my final moves of a turn might be to move into charge range, but send a cheap throwaway model to engage you. If I win initiative I can still charge into melee with you (though I'll lose out on flurry). However if I lose initiative, your big beatstick is engaged and can't charge my important model, instead you're stuck killing a cheap throwaway model. These are just simple examples, that can have much much more complexity, but I hope that gives you an idea on the importance of the initiative flip and how that importance is determined, in part, by the actions and playstyles of the players of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Most of the time I'd say -1... I prefer my opponent to have it unless it is indeed more advantageous for me to have it - when I play competitively I put a lot of effort into out-activation and do not seem to put myself into situations where the iniative flip will make or break the game. With 2-4 more activations you can pretty much dictate how the next turn will start. From what I've read on the forums and heard on podcasts some people do put themselves in make or break situations though, so the answers you will get will vary quite a bit - especially comparing control to aggro players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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