Trevelyan Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 So Levi should be with us shortly, and the new minis look pretty good. I'll be up a box even though I have a full Levi crew already and look forward to ending my Malifaux hiatus. One thing troubles me, though; the box by itself looks far from playable. I understand that we are getting a fair few minis (9 in total) which is as much as a box can reasonably hold, but Levi needs more crew than the box contains. In the days of 1E (and 1.5), my FLGS ran several tournaments for beginners based on the starter boxes alone (sometimes with one extra pack for variety). Is Levi valid in that format going forwards? Do Levi's additional hiring requirements mean tat he is less valid as a starter master than many others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 He and Kirai both suffer from this. You need the box plus a couple models to make it starter friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Indeed... pick up Ashes and Lazarus and you have one of the most capable "starters" in the game - and still in faction. "Building" on Levy would be optimizing his trees. This starter box is completely unplayable in the way you describe. I am extremely happy that I will have 8 unique 100% wyrd abom models though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 This was also a concern of mine. I picked up the set in the black Friday sales as my second crew option. Thankfully my first consists of Freikorps so Lazarus can moonlight for levi. I would love to add ashes and dust to my collection but as far as I'm aware he's yet to be released in Wyrd's lovely 2E plastic range. I love the new models and I'm a bit reluctant to buy in metal if a models still in the pipeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 So Levi should be with us shortly, and the new minis look pretty good. I'll be up a box even though I have a full Levi crew already and look forward to ending my Malifaux hiatus. One thing troubles me, though; the box by itself looks far from playable. I understand that we are getting a fair few minis (9 in total) which is as much as a box can reasonably hold, but Levi needs more crew than the box contains. In the days of 1E (and 1.5), my FLGS ran several tournaments for beginners based on the starter boxes alone (sometimes with one extra pack for variety). Is Levi valid in that format going forwards? Do Levi's additional hiring requirements mean tat he is less valid as a starter master than many others? I think there are some plans for changing starter tournements. I'm basing a lot of my views off of Closseaus Lost Love events, where I first saw the starter box and booster format. His next one has a small pool (65) for a 45 SS crew, so whilst a new Levi player may need to buy a few more blisters to get to that 65 stones, they wouldn't be at a disadvantage. And even in the older format, the new box is probably better than the old box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I am slightly tempted by starting Levi as one of my crews..but I have a few questions first that someone may be able to help with? 1) Are Steampunk Abominations absolutely necessary to playing Levi, If so fine..but I am not particularly sold on the aesthetics of the minis. 2) The Hollow waifs look fab and with a bit of work I think could be proxied elsewhere too..beckoners, showgirls etc. Will they be released as a three pack in the future do you think, or is it likely it is a levi box only? Just a couple of queries.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I am slightly tempted by starting Levi as one of my crews..but I have a few questions first that someone may be able to help with? 1) Are Steampunk Abominations absolutely necessary to playing Levi, If so fine..but I am not particularly sold on the aesthetics of the minis. 2) The Hollow waifs look fab and with a bit of work I think could be proxied elsewhere too..beckoners, showgirls etc. Will they be released as a three pack in the future do you think, or is it likely it is a levi box only? Just a couple of queries.. Leve and Rusty Alyce can summon Abominations from triggers via killing targets, so they can pop up with decent ease. As for the Waifs, I doubt they will be sold separately as they are his personal totems, and no other personal totems sold in crew boxes are sold outside of their respective boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeZ Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Hi =) How many abominations he needs? 4 from starter enough? I dont plan to hire them, only summon with the trigger (or when tear apart DE). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Barrows Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Just picked it up.It was fairly easy to put together (at least relative to some of the other box sets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi =) How many abominations he needs? 4 from starter enough? I dont plan to hire them, only summon with the trigger (or when tear apart DE). The answer here is it depends on how you play him. I don't own more than 4, and rarely have had to not summon because I don't have the model. Its not tata common that I summon more than 2. But I might be subcouncously not summonign as much as I can because I know I only own 4. Its not that common that the enemy crew has enough cheap models that you will kill several for the summoning on the trigger easily, yet don't kill abominations off quickly. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but by that stage its possibly only a win more situation. Unless you see a great deal on buying another box (or you have to pay huge postage costs and are doing an order now) I wouldn't bother getting more than the 4 in te starter box. play with that and see if you are limited by only owning 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Indeed... pick up Ashes and Lazarus and you have one of the most capable "starters" in the game - and still in faction. "Building" on Levy would be optimizing his trees. This starter box is completely unplayable in the way you describe. I am extremely happy that I will have 8 unique 100% wyrd abom models though Shouldn't he get a desolation engine too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 You can play Levy and Alyce entirely without summoning if you like. They work very well as straight-up killers. It's worth having a few Abominations in your case for when you decide to go for some summoning. If you play Levy as an opportunistic summoner (take it when it happens, but don't set out to do it) you'll be just fine with four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeZ Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 well guys, thank you very much for your answers =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 @decker - Yeah, you probably need an DE but I usually would rather have 4 aboms than one engine - if I am playing summon heavy I'll be playing core crew in Recon or something when body count is more important. Otherwise, I probably won't have enough Aboms on the board in one area to even try to attempt it + focusing on summoning a DE gets you off task and its not worth it I find. I really only get a DE on the board when I hire it and I would only ever hire it playing a Rusty Henchman-led crew. When I play summoner Levy I feel I would need at least 6 aboms - 4 isn't enough for a summoner list. If you are concerned about cost I would suggest possibly staying away from Levy much like the entire Resser faction - it gets pricey. Eventually you will want to dabble at least in your PoI tree. It's difficult to say "all I am buying are these models and that's it" - if you feel that way don't start with Levy - his options is his biggest asset and expanding your collection is practically inevitable, and I would argue necessary. Uh oh, here comes the obligatory "I play a core levy crew just fine" comment - of course you can, but when this game gets "figured out" and the whole "tier-list" master lists and hyper-competitive tourney scene shows up you're going to have to push yourself to stay on a competitive level. Single master "take allcomers" won't be good enough. When the competitive scene expands and starts to get really fleshed out you're not just going to see Mech-Ryler Levy builds anymore and building to hate is going to become more important. Nothing is better than building a optimal hate list for exactly what you're opponent is playing if he slips up and lets you know what he brought. Nothing's better than "winning on deployment" with a ridiculous hate list in a competitive game. Perhaps not in casual if you actually want to keep friends but in competitive nothing should stop you from wanting to completely stomp your opponent one steps away from ragequiting I know a lot of people are still in the "take allcomers" list building mentality with Levy, and if so you can get away with a very basic (but boring) build but if you really want to play Levy and do crazy cool combos and stuff you might be investing more money than you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Wow. You sound like a terrible person to play against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 In competitive, maybe. In casual I still build to win but I don't care if someone needs to reflip or if the opponent is a mm off a charge or whatever. But no matter what I'm always a real nice guy about it, even though I'm a powergamer through and through. If you're not playing to win you're just wasting time - it is a competitive game after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Levy does this thing that he makes what ever he brings a take all list. (Slight caveat when played with minimal or no mistakes and upgrades) So expanding is just something as a Malifaux player you are going to do. It happens. Things are shiny and you want them. @specter if you can find a hate list for "Mech ryler" I want to see it. Let me guess it involves Tara Taelor and some void wretches. Which means free aboms for levy and a dead not hard to kill Taelor. Also how do you know what your opponent is bringing? All you know is that it is outcasts. Super Mech ryler hate list doesn't look so great when facing Hamelin or Jack. So unless master is being announced (for what ever obtuse reason) you are never going to build a hate list. Or you can try and hope they play that crew. P.s. not playing to win is fine and dandy. I would rather joke around have a good time then crush my opponents spirit and drive them from the game. But if I know the person and they can take soul crushing defeat. Then game on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Game on, indeed. Its playing on the same mentality as your opponent that is important. If I want to goof around I'll play beer and pretzel games like Cards Against Humanity or Zombicide - wargaming is srs bsns Playing someone who is goofing around is a waste of time for me. I have found good success against mech ryler by exploiting its generic build in unfavorable scheme pools and aggression towards the weak flank during the first two turns, whether it is Somer lobbing Gremlins, levy-mirror, or just plain ownage by Zoraida. Levy's allcomer list is not really geared towards achieving schemes very well and relies heavily on summoning. This forces your opponent to counter by trying to redeploy and assist his squishy rider. You can use obey, tarpits and pushers too. When it comes down to it - its all about tit for tat and trying to force your opponent to make mistakes. I've beat Levy with Daw, Dreamer, Somer, Zoraida and its always the same general idea. People are so scared of Levy they play cagey allowing him to fortify his positioning but more than anyone else, Levy suffers to actually accomplish schemes plus many schemes are unfavorable to him. Hit him hard and fast early game and he'll have a whole lot of nothing to do for T3 and on. As soon as you defeat his posiioning you can play avoidance if need be and just let him sit all alone with nothing to do in one section of the board he can't get out of anymore. Perhaps, bring small powerful expendable models and bog him down - stitched, illuminated, swampfiends to the face. Now if you're saying something like "well I play THIS master and THIS master can't beat Levy" then you're probably right and its time for you to expand. Bottom line - if you know Levy you can beat Levy - if you don't you are screwed. Also, if you want to beat Levy like no man's business, start playing Zoraida YMMV ------- About the "not knowing which master you will be playing" - I don't see how people can say this. There are so many ways of deducing what you're opponent will take out that I just don't see how you can't know. Whether its loose lips or peaking inside someone's bag during a walk around or just previous knowledge from pick up games on previous days of the tournament or what have you - you should know or you're not paying attention (willful blindness perhaps?). I don't want to undermine my own powers of deduction... but really its the little things. Did your opponent bring a bag big enough for multiple masters, whats his faction/what's on his tray and of course - what would you play if you were your opponent. Even at tournaments people are not that secretive and travelling normally means its unlikely that they will bring everyhing they have unless they show up with a Hordes bag. Add complacency to that after a long day of wargaming and you will see some consistent gameplay choices. I'm not saying to tool up completely towards a single match up - just make sure that if that match up occurs you have an answer and hopefully a good one. You should know what your good and bad matchups are and adjust accordingly (at least considering your "worst" matchup). While waiting for your opponent to go, look around and see what else is going on and make some mental notes, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 <MOD HAT> Guys, please keep this conversation civil. </MOD HAT> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondoe297 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 ... this skewed off on a tangent. Levy's box would be fine in a beginner box + blister pack/box (whatever they are called haha) tournament, just pick up a couple of anchors. Everyone will have ltd options. Look at Dreamer, poor little dreamer. UK scene is pretty competetive, but I dont think I have seen much/any gameyness or such forth. Competitve doesnt mean being an ass hat (maybe to some it does, not pointing any fingers hear whatsoever) it means bringing your best ability to the table top to give your opponenent the best possible game, both in tactical battle and banter.(well thats how I see it) Levy is fine as a mono master, (imo one of the best masters at doing it) your welcome to know im using him every game, ran him solidly from end of september to mid January and did alright. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 ... this skewed off on a tangent. <MOD HAT> Yep. So I split off the tangent to a new topic. </MOD HAT> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 To release some unhealthy pressure which floats around this topic - I got Levi's box yesterday... It's beautiful... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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