Is Pariah of Bone/Iron really necessary?

[Vermicious Knid]

When reading about Leveticus, you always here about how great (or even necessary) his Pariah upgrades are. Almost every single source I have found mentions the fact that his Pariah upgrades, while adittedly awesome, aren't really necessary, since his thematic crew is good and works for some Strategies.

On the other hand, when you hear PLAYERS talk about Leveticus, it seems like the Pariah abilities are kind of a no-brainer. Basically it looks like they get taken almost every game played, just to get use of the huge hiring pool.

While doing "theoryfaux", I find myself sticking with the good Leveticus options available in just the regular Outcast pool. My imaginary crews seem to include things like Alice, Lazarus, Ashes & Dust, the Engine, with maybe a couple of Abominations or some other non-Construct Outcast as a filler.

I get that lists like what I described would only really be good in limited areas, but still they don't seem too bad. Plus I find it annoying to "waste" an Upgrade slot on a Pariah, unless you have some devious master plan that involves Constructs/Undead from other factions.

So I guess my question is, how often do you take a Pariah upgrade? Is it truly necessary to the way Leveticus works? How much mileage can he get off of his basic Abomination summoning/DE creating mechanics?

[Math Mathonwy]

Icemyn won the Avatar Finals (and got through the Qualifiers) using a fixed list making use of Pariah of Iron:

Leveticus

- Pariah of Iron 1ss

- From Ash/To Earth Return (2ss/1ss) From ash only in the semis

- Desolate Soul 2ss

Ryle 10ss

Mechanical Rider 12ss

Ashes and Dust 13ss

Waif x2 0ss

Abomination x2 8ss

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/102815-batrep-from-gencon-avatar-qualifier-part-1/

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/102850-batrep-from-gencon-avatar-finals-part-2/

[Adran]

I would say that he can run perfectly happily just in the outcast faction.

His Pariah upgrades do allow him to throw a curve ball out there. And to look for combinations that aren't possible anywhere else. (teddy with a metal gamin, Ice golem throwing watchers)

[moxypoo]

So I guess my question is, how often do you take a Pariah upgrade? Is it truly necessary to the way Leveticus works? How much mileage can he get off of his basic Abomination summoning/DE creating mechanics?

 

You definitely do not need to take the Pariah upgrades to get the best mileage out of Leveticus.  His themed crew is generally sufficient to accomplish most strategy and scheme combinations.  They aren't the fastest crew so some schemes such as Power Ritual can be tough.  However, the Outcast faction has very solid minions and specialist models that you can use to tailor to your objectives.  For example, Void Wretches and Ronin (who are surprisingly fast and tough) are solid scheme runners.  Ashes and Dust is really an all purpose model that excels in eating enemy scheme runners while being competent to act entirely by itself.

 

In my experience, the Pariah upgrades should be taken when you want to bring in a specific model or combination from another faction.  For example, if I think my opponent is going to have only a few expensive models (due to something like Reckoning), I might take Pariah of Bone and To the Earth Return on Leveticus and hire 2 The Hanged so I can efficiently eliminate large targets.  Another example is bringing in Joss or the Large Steam Arachnid to generate lots of scrap markers if you're going heavy on the Abomination summoning route.

 

To answer your last question, I think Leveticus can get a lot of mileage out of Abominations and the Desolation Engine.  The DE is a huge beatstick with huge damage output.  It's not particularly difficult to kill, but you can always make another one.  Abominations are easy to kill, but when you mob them together, they can put out a surprisingly large amount of damage (or at least drain cards from your opponent's hand with all the duels they force).  Always remember that they remove suits associated with Ca and prevent (0) actions from nearby enemy models!  They also allow you to draw lots of cards which is always nice.  Essentially, they're hugely annoying and can get out of hand very quickly if your opponent doesn't take time to remove some of them.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

As a powergamer, I would either run Levy with Pariah Iron (pref)/Bone or not at all, honestly. I care about optimal crew choices only and without a Pariah you don't get them. Running Levy without a Pariah is a handicap, imo - his enormous hiring pool is one of his strongest features (especially if you know exactly what crew you'll be playing against). Cheesy as it is - playing against a specifically tailored crew (lol iron zombies) is one hell of a task :/

[Patzer]

It all depends on strategy and schemes. In some cases the Outcast range will work just fine (especially Turf War in my experience, Reconnoiter to an extent) while other pools simply demands models which there are better options of elsewhere.

[jondoe297]

Been using the old guy for a couple of months now, and enjoying him immensely. Taken him to three uk tournaments and used him exclusively in all three. I must admit, every game i used a pariah, specifically pariah of iron. I find the options it brings are to great to miss it. Fleshies, necropunks, mechrider and soulstone miner are so useful tools to add to his crew.

 I have started to play with pariah of bone recently, and at my next tournie am thinking of rocking without the pariah upgrade (mainly coz its a 40stone game)

[SpectreEliteGaming]

I find I take iron in big games and iron/bone in small games. In small games I don't think it matters. As mentioned, I never don't take a Pariah.

If Pariah of Bone was droped completely, I probably wouldn't miss it that much... most of the best fleshies are constructs as well.

[Kadeton]

I take them mostly for fun and interesting combinations of models, and to allow models from other Factions access to the incredible Outcast generic upgrades (which often makes them pretty ridiculous).

 

You absolutely don't need them, but they do open up a host of new options.

[Hateful Darkblack]

You don't need Pariah of Iron or Bone to be competitive.

 

There's a big advantage of just taking the core crew: you'll be playing with models you know. Especially when you're getting started with Levy, it's really advantageous to have a core set of models and know them inside and out. (Really, that's an advantage for any Malifaux Crew.) If you tried to use every model Levy could hire, you'd lose most games, because you'd be playing models you didn't know, looking for clever combinations that didn't help much, and generally wasting your time instead of getting good with your models.

 

You can really field a strong and workable Crew that can win games with the Leveticus box set, plus Hodgepodge Effigy, Ashes and Dust, Desolation Engine, and Lazarus.

 

There are two big advantages of Pariah:

 

1. Objective Runners. Leveticus core doesn't have amazing objective runners. Well, Ashes and Dust is a great objective runner, but that's just one and you may want more. There are some other Outcast models that are decent objective runners (Ronin, Freikorpsmann, and Void Wretch, specifically), but none of them are a match for speedy models like Necropunks, Crooligans, and Watchers.

 

2. Top-end Models. Not all models are worth the same for the points. Some are just at the top end of value, bordering on being worth one point higher. Pariah gives you access to a few more of those. Specifically, I'm thinking about the Mechanical Rider and Ryle on Pariah of Iron, and Belles (and perhaps Students) on Pariah of Bone. It's great to get access to these. Figuring and learning those models can be a way to get really top-end play, especially if you can get them working together. You don't need them, but they help.

 

I tend to go about 50% Pariah of Iron, 25% Pariah of Bone, 25% neither. All of them are fun to play, they all feel very different, and there's maybe a slight power advantage to Pariah of Iron, but it's not as dramatic and winner-take all as people say.

 

Above the table, there's another big disadvantage to taking Pariah: money and bag space. You cannot realistically buy every model Levy can hire, and even if you could, you couldn't bring it to the table.

[Hateful Darkblack]

On a less competitive level, there's a fun thing you can do with Levy and Pariah upgrades: mimic other crews.

 

I've had a lot of fun with making Crew that mimic other Masters.

 

You can do a "Colette Levy" with Performers, Mannequins, and Coryphee.

 

You can do a "Jack Daw Levy" with Montresor, Guilty, Jaakuna, Drowned, and Hanged.

 

You can do a "Seamus Levy" with Sybelle, Belles, and Dead Doxies.

 

You can do a "Collodi Levy" with Vasilisa, Effigies, Stitched, Coryphee, and Wicked Dolls.

 

You can do a "Hoffman Levy" with Peacekeeper, Watchers, Guardian, and Hunter.

 

You can do a "Rasputina Levy" with Ice Golem and Ice Gamin.

 

You can do a "Nicodem Levy" with Toshiro and Punk Zombies.

 

...and so on.

 

It's fun for a non-tournament environment, it's not the same as core Levy or as the model you're imitating, and it's nonstop comedy gold.

[daniello_s]

I'm tinkering now around Levi and I wonder if anyone tried this setup: Levi with Pariah of Iron and Desolate Soul + Soulstone Miner + Freikorps Librarian + Hodgepodge Effigy + Alyce with Desolate Soul?

 

Miner extracts SS and anchors Wife if needed, Librarian heals Miner and anchors Wife if needed. Hodgepodge helps Levi to get extra SS when he kills the model and Levi + Alyce happily use those SS to trigger Desolate Soul and create Abominations

[Dafty]

No upgrade is "necessary" on any master. (Sans Tara God does she need her upgrades) but for one stone you open up a plethora of options to hire your crew from now. So that alone is worth an upgrade slot. But levy doesn't need it no. But if the options are there why don't you use them?

[CreepingDeath]

Some see it as a crux. They need it/ wont do without it as they have issues playing in a certain way and need the assurance.

He can easily be played and win using only outcasts

[daniello_s]

I see it rather as a nice bonus and chance to expand Levi's crew almost to the infinite number than a must have choice.

I was just wondering if anyone tried this Soulstone recycle system I've shown in previous post.