Yan Lo - where's the synergy?

[surly]

I finally got my Crossroads book a few days ago and am almost done reading through it, looking for some new ideas for new masters. Shenlong is definately on my wishlist and therefore I'm also considering getting some of the other 10T masters to have a small starting pool of miniatures once Shen is released.

Long story short I took a look at Yan Lo, and don't really get his synergies with other models. Having said that, I have neither played him myself nor seen him getting played in our playgroup so far, therefore everythinv written here is pure brainstorming and may be completely wrong.

Sure, there's his Reliquary upgrade, but it seems a bit underwhelming tbh. I'm no big fan of the Ancestors anyway (stylewise), but I don't get if it's worth running them just to get use of the upgrade. Yan Lo has quite some cool upgrades beside that available, so you shouldn't have many problems picking some.

So, is this upgrade simply better than I think it is, or are there any other hidden benefits of running Ancestors I don't see?

Next comes his ability to run 4 Retainer. Looking through the book I only found Ashigaru and Onryo, are there any others I missed?

Although it's nice to be able to pick them, I don't really see the point in running them when it comes to synergy. Ok, Ashigaru gets a small trigger when in range to Yan Lo, but (at least for me) it doesn't seem too spectacular.

Onryo I have no idea what to think about.

So ... why pick them instead of some other 10T staples?

Last but not least, the spirit theme. As far as I can see there are 5 spirits available: Onryo, Soul Porter totem, Izamu, Komanu and Tengu.

Among those Tengu and Soul Porter are great inclusions for most crews anyway, so giving them a few buffs through Spirit Ascendant is probay a nice thing to have. The others I haven't seen in play yet, so I have no idea about them.

On the other hand Fury of the Yomi is a (2) action, which is quite a hefty cost for a master.

So as mentioned above I'm no fan of most Ancestors anyway, but without having played them it seems like there's no real "need" to play them, since the synergy between Yan Lo and them isn't that huge anyway.

Would be great if someone here could give me a short rundown if they're better than I want them to be

Thanks, cheers

[Bumpasses]

short rundown;

 

they are better than you want them to be.

 

Lots of good entries on the boards.

I count half a dozen just on this first page...

-Ashigaru

-Yan Lo

-Toshiro

-Yin the Pan

-Izamu

-Chiaki

-Soul Porter

 

thats a list of the regulars, do a search and you will find lots of info.

 

M2e PullMyFinger Wiki is also gold, all the factions and most of the models.

 

I play only Yan Lo and between the boards and PullMyFinger I have been thoroughly edumacated.

 

 

-GB

[Bloodrush]

I think the fact that he _doesnt_ have a lot of synergy with ancestors or his signature crew means that he is highly 

adaptive and can support most crews very well be it TT or Ressers. Hes kind of like an all rounder support master now. 

 

Reliquary is a pretty darn good upgrade though. At first I was underwhelmed as well but the Ancestors are 

all very solid units. Most experienced players would agree that its no easy task to take down any of 

them once let alone twice.

 

For retainer I think its more so he can bring Komainu into a Resser list but the Brace ability on the 

Ashigaru is not something to overlook. Also Onryo give out Adversary which gives spirits positive attack flips.

Both Komainu and the Ashi get their suits from any Ancestors presence, not just Yan. Komainu with the burning trigger 

built in hit pretty hard for a 5 pt model.

 

I agree Fury of the Yomi isnt amazing for TT, probably more suited for Ressers with plenty of spirit options, and even then

it would be a very situational action, but potentially game changing in the right circumstance.

 

Heres an example of how I'd use his upgrades. 

Vs. a casting heavy opponent, Ascend to Ash, giving him Impossible to wound.

Vs. a melee/shooty crew, Spirit, giving him Incorpreal.

Vs. a weenie crew with a lot of weak units bunched up, Bone ascendant.

Using your excess chi for giving your units +2 Armor and making them spirits.

 

If you don't like the theme of his crew though I'd suggest finding something you will have more fun with playing and painting.

I, like many others, chose his crew pretty much all based on the theme and asthetics of the crew.

[decker_cky]

Komainu are retainers aren't they?

[Bloodrush]

They are, and TT only

[Bumpasses]

hmmm

 

I agree mostly with you BloodRush....

but

I guess I consider his ability to rez ancestors a pretty big synergy.

Hey, did you just lose that 10 point Izamu?

Hey, did your opponent just use 3 model activations to kill Yin?

 

rez em back up reeel good and watch your opponent consider seppuku

 

 

free toy soldiers (a stone for suit or a decent card in hand)

to beat face, run schemes, tie up your enemy etc etc blah blah blah

are hard to beat in my book.

 

-GB

[Inquisitor Wall]

I have found Yan Lo to be particularly interesting in the fact that he and the other models in his crew have a number of small synergies that work well in some situations, but nothing that is reliant on any one model. The soul porter can be great at pushing models like Imazu and yan lo around. The summoning is awesome as it allows you to send the ancestors off into the thick of things and then bring them back in a safer location later. All of the ancestors are very powerful models, so having the ability to re summon them, and then heal them is awesome.

The 2 action to give three spirits a 1 action may seem hefty, but the end result is to gain an AP if you have spirits nearby. If I remember correctly, you can use it on the soul porter who can then push yan lo, so if you were planning to walk anyway, or need to push out of combat when lightning dance would not work properly it can be good.

So while there are no massive combos to pull off with him, he certainly strikes me more as a master with many options to synergies with his crew, but thankfully he is not really dependent on specific parts of a synergistic crew.

[EnternalVoid]

The game I had last Saturday is a prime example of where a you got your money's worth out of (2)  Wraith fo the Yomi.  I had two rail workers and Izamu in combat with some of Hamelin's crew at the center of the board due to Turf War.  I also had amassed some chi by this point.  So I used his (1) Trancendance to give Izamu and both rail workers the +2 Armor and make the two rail workers spirits.  I then used Wraith of the Yomi and give them actions to attack with.  As one of the Rail workers had already gone and used his (0) action for the bonus to hit and damage he got this bonus with this attack as well.  As Hamelin also had some stolen involved I was able to kill them with out activating so I did not get more blight on Izamu or the other rail worker.  So I got 3 AP out of my 2 AP, and for 1 AP and 3 Chi I had Izamu at Armor +4 and both Rail Workers at Armor +3 with their Metal on Metal.  So his Bleeding Disease spell was not going to do much to Izamu at that point even with his Blighted +5.  Sure it took all of Yan Lo's AP for a turn but it was still really effective.  Not something I would try every game but effective when you need it.  I suspect its value goes up the better models you have to give the extra AP too.

 

As for Ancestors, they are all good at something.  Yin though has been the most annoying one to fight against as if you are not careful she can pretty much shut a single model down for a turn.

[Bloodrush]

Great point raised with Soul Porter and Fury of the Yomi, Inquisitor Wall. Nice way to push your way out of combat if you find Yan Lo or another Ancestor in a tight spot.

 

And EternalVoid.. makes me realise how good that armor buff really is. Heal something for (0) then give Armor +2 to as many units around you as you have Chi for (1) Then follow up with FotY same activation and hopefully generate more Chi in the process.  Doesn't seem like many other masters can offer that level of defensive support.

 

Hmm I wonder if you can target the same friendly model twice and give them Armor +4 Instead of choosing separate units? Either way I guess you could cast it twice if you really wanted that stack! 

[surly]

Thanks for all the replies, I guess my personal dislike of the other Ancestors made me think worse of them than they actuall are. Thanks for pointing out

It sounds pretty cool to hand out the spirit caracteristic to multiple models if you wish to, that's definately something I haven't seen in the first place.

Also getting back dead ancestors is probably pretty strong, true. I haven't really seen the use before since they're pretty resilent anyway.

Having said that, I'd like to rephrase my initial question.

I like Yan Lo and his ability to use his abilities for whatever is best in the current situation, because this makes him pretty versatile and tricky to figure out what to do best now.

Also I love all the 10T ninja and monk models, basically the whole Misaki and Shenlong crew, the archers and snipers but also the 10T brothers and Tengu.

I don't like the Ashigaru and other ancestors though.

Can Yan Lo be played competitively without these models, or would I simply limit myself when excluding these?

[Dirial]

Can Yan Lo be played competitively without these models, or would I simply limit myself when excluding these?

 

He can, and you would. 

[dgraz]

Also I love all the 10T ninja and monk models, basically the whole Misaki and Shenlong crew, the archers and snipers but also the 10T brothers and Tengu.

I don't like the Ashigaru and other ancestors though.

 

Sounds like you'd be better off playing Misaki.

[chris_havoc]

I think you may be underestimating the effect of summoning Enforcers and Henchmen of the Ancestors' survivability/utility. Honestly though I do think that playing Ancestors they benefit more from the Resser general upgrades particularly Unnerving Aura. Though don't turn your nose up at Chiaki or Toshiro in any list. Toshiro's ability to summon is really useful especially when Chiaki and the Soul Porter can boost his Ca with Chi. Chiaki herself gets rid of conditions which makes her incredibly useful while also not being that big a threat and so she tends to stick around. Izamu and Yin are both very difficult to remove but I would say more replacable than Chiaki and Toshiro. Basically Yan Lo is great because you can make him virtually indestructable with Ascendance and his other (0) Instill Youth can heal models a huge 4 wounds which is complimetned by Chiaki's heal. He is also great with his Lightning Dance for placing models in the line of fire of very scary models. So a model like Ototo would be great in a Yan Lo list as would Kang. With Toshiro the Dawn Serpent is pretty awesome as he can give out Fast to minions. With Hard To Kill he quite likes Yan Lo's heal (Same with Ototo).

[Pyrflamme]

I haven't played Yan Lo yet (will be getting box set in December), but one thing I've heard that's good about Ashigaru is that they can get four attacks out of 2 AP - Lunge, take the trigger of Wall of Steel on the second attack, push the enemy 3" away, if they have sub-3" melee, Lunge again.

[Inquisitor Wall]

While some of the Rezzer upgrades may seem really good, recalled training on izamu can be really awesome (although recalled training on anything is awesome).

.

[Eclipse]

While some of the Rezzer upgrades may seem really good, recalled training on izamu can be really awesome (although recalled training on anything is awesome).

.

Not on Mr. Tannen. He likes his Hidden Agenda better

 Edit: So it seems posting in old threads is frowned upon. Sorry about that. From now on I will abscond from roaming through unopened graves (threads). It's just that I was excited as it has only been a week since I made my profile, and I have so much to talk about.

 On topic: Apart from the little bit of synergy you can find in resurrecting the Ancestor models, there is also the Guard ability on the Komainu and Ashigaru models, which states that the latter gain +tome when they are (3) away from friendly Ancestor models. This could potentially be big. Komainu can stack either Burning+1 or Slow with the tome; Ashigaru can push the model they are attacking exactly 3" away with a tome - and then lunge. So, they work very well if you take Toshiro, and in a Yan Lo crew you can have them all at the start of the game. Chiaki on the other hand can remove Slow from a freshly summoned Retainer model and possible even heal it almost to full, making her a great companion for Toshiro. In addition, Toshiro can give the Ashigaru Fast and +tome from the Guard ability for a total of 3! lunge attacks with a total push distance from them 6" to 9"! Basically it gives you a small melee army of minion with + to attack and moderate damage in tight formations with decent reach. Also you get to replenish the army and even to get back the commander once if you take Reliquary. Yin also has a synergy with Komainus as she can give - to wp and ca duels, and thus let them hit that much easier. The only Ancestor model I would not take with Yan Lo is, surprisingly maybe, Izamu. He is too slow, albeit durable - unless you are against Outcasts, Arcanists, Neverborn... so most of the games for me. He is more flexible with McGabe and I expect with Shenlong.

 This is as much synergy as you will get with Yan Lo, but I find it enough so that he has his own unique crew flavor when you want him to. He also allows for flexibility, so might not necessarily need Ancestor models to make him work. He is good for example with Katanaka Snipers - but who isn't?

Edited September 8, 2015 by Eclipse

[Rathnard]

Ressing an old thread is fine, so long as you have something new to add. I'll leave this unlocked for now, but if you're going to go off topic, it's getting closed. [/MODHAT]

 

I've been using Yan Lo for my past few games and from what I can tell, he's pretty good at buffing his crew (through healing, resummoning and/or armour), putting the opponents models out of position (Lightning Dance) and simply getting in the way and refusing to die (Misdirection helps alot with this). He and his crew (Soul Porter, Ashigaru, Komainu) have some natural synergy with Ancestors so I'd definitely include at least one, but more than two is unneeded. 

 

The only thing I'm struggling with is crew selection - since Yan Lo is mostly about crew support, I've tried to minimise taking additional support specialists (eg. Chiaki, Sensei Yu) in favour of some damage dealers or at least all-rounders (eg. Wastrel!). Basically, I'm still trying to find the balance with what I should be taking with Yan.

[zFiend]

It is usually frowned upon necroing old threads unless you have a solid input to thread itself. And even then usually threads get locked down due to being too old. So it is a safe to bet to open a new one.