Wong - I don't get him

[Math Mathonwy]

I've now played a couple of games with him and he seems awfully lackluster to me.

The good things are that he is really durable and What Goes Up is an excellent ability. Also being able to Ca damage is nice among Gremlins.

But then we come to the negatives. His Upgrades seem really expensive for what they do. Explosive Solutions is two triggers that, though rather nice and giving the bonus of having a trigger for all suits still aren't utterly spectacular. The trigger has very good potential and is my favourite by far but still, 2 stones is a lot, I think.

This is probably due to the fact that you need to hit moderate or severe damage with Lightning Jump and since most of your enemies are always in cover, you need to Focus. Which means that you will get one spell off per turn if you don't need to move much.

Rasputina doesn't have this problem due to the Ice Mirror mechanic and Sonnia has longer range, Visions of Flame and Confiscated Lore, which make the girls a lot better blasters than Wong, I think.

The mechanic of Lightning Jump is cute but ultimate not very big. Maybe it's the fact that my enemies don't cluster but I think I've done a grand total of two points of damage with it even though I've taken Gremlin's Luck every time.

Finally, Three Demon Bag, again, very costly for what it does, IMO. If you find yourself using this one a lot, then you're probably doing something wrong. The Condition is a fun idea but since it only lasts until the end of turn, it won't be of much consequence ultimately.

Finally, the big thing here is that Wong is competing with Somer and Ophelia for ranged Master. Somer can do blasts and Ophelia does way, way better single damage. You need to consistently get three or four enemy models affected by each Lightning Jump to have a chance of outpacing Ophelia in the damage department. Or be blasting at half-dead Spider hordes or something.

So yeah, any ideas?

I do like Wong's resilience, though, as already noted. He is one of the most durable Masters, crazily enough. Counter Spell, Squeel, Armor, a nice amount of Wounds and access to Stubborn. And Gremlin healing on top.

[thebarbalag]

I've found him worth the price of admission just for Magical, but then he's a very durable, very threatening (even if he's not damaging 6 guys at a time, the fact that he has the potential dictates enemy behavior), and has great scheme marker manipulation. So far I've only had a few games with him, but Magical on Burt pulled the weight of a whole Master as far as I'm concerned, allowing Burt to rather easily take out Hank, and on the following turn, one-shot Joss, who is always a thorn in my side.

[wizuriel]

Generally I think you want Wong when you have a lot of marker based schemes but a killing strategy. While Wong doesn't do as much damage as Sommer and Ophelia can do, I find he is better at marker manipulation than them (though a summoning Sommer is also really good for this). 

 

A super glowing Gracie, Killjoy or Burt is pretty fun. I also tend to like putting demon bag on Sammy and having her run interference on my enemy's schemes (turning markers into stuffed piglets or bacon cursing scary stuff). 

[Uktena]

Ride the pig. Take Gracie, put a saddle on her, and ride her like a lightning spewing APC. Instant 4th of July (its a holiday with fireworks for the other colonials).

Ride the pig.

[Dumb Luck]

Why do I play Wong? Mainly because Som'er and Ophelia are still a little like their V1 selfs, which I played to death.

 

Wong adds a bit of variety. But not too much!

 

I am also partial to the paintjob on my Wong model.

 

It seems you have had a few games where he has been very lacklustre. I had the same. Wait until he works. And he'll work wonders. I do agree that he does need people to group up though.

[thebarbalag]

Had my third game with Wong tonight, and my third win. Magical Burt, further enhanced by Ooo, Glowy!  took out dismounted McCabe and Sidir in one activation. Wong killed Luna by blasting/pulsing off of Sidir after taking out a Wastrel in a single shot. I can see the cards not working for you, or not having the right circumstances, but the tiny wizard can get a lot of work done. It doesn't hurt to have Burt with Magical, backed by Lenny, with a flipped Ram for 6 Weak damage.

[rgarbonzo]

Don't forget Crackerjack Timing on the Assistant and Burt, really helps to clump up models.

[hypoking]

I play Wong because Collodi and his whirling ball of a thousand puppets needs to learn that it's not ok to be a freshman.

[zFiend]

I play Wong because Collodi and his whirling ball of a thousand puppets needs to learn that it's not ok to be a freshman.

Amazing.

Anyway I think you might get more out of Wong if you didn't play him as a Ophelia substitute. I think you could benefit greatly from the Lovely Assistant, Burt and sure, why not, Lightning Bugs.

At least that way you wouldn't probably compare Wong to Ophelia or try to fill out the role that Ophelia does in that crew of yours. I know I have done this easily when played a master with a familiar core crew of another master (Lucius / Lynch).

[Math Mathonwy]

Anyway I think you might get more out of Wong if you didn't play him as a Ophelia substitute. I think you could benefit greatly from the Lovely Assistant, Burt and sure, why not, Lightning Bugs.

At least that way you wouldn't probably compare Wong to Ophelia or try to fill out the role that Ophelia does in that crew of yours. I know I have done this easily when played a master with a familiar core crew of another master (Lucius / Lynch).

Aye, this is most likely true. I don't have a suitable proxy for Assistant and I don't own Burt (to be honest, I'm not really feeling his model and it is quite expensive) - they would help for sure with their Crackerjack Timing. And Burt is a good candidate for Oooh Glowy Magical.

Lightning Bugs I'm kinda not sure about. They seem like they would actually work better with Somer and his card draw shenanigans. Somer can do blasts as well if needed and you probably don't want to be blasting your Bugs too much since they are so squishy. But this is wholly theory.

[Adran]

This is probably due to the fact that you need to hit moderate or severe damage with Lightning Jump and since most of your enemies are always in cover, you need to Focus. Which means that you will get one spell off per turn if you don't need to move much.

Rasputina doesn't have this problem due to the Ice Mirror mechanic and Sonnia has longer range, Visions of Flame and Confiscated Lore, which make the girls a lot better blasters than Wong, I think.

 

 

The assistant is the answer to this. If you know your next 4 cards, you are much more likely to get your moderate despite being on negative flips. You know if you need to spend a stone to negate the cover and allow you to cheat. You also know if the next action is gooing to be a wash out.

 

That does really make  a huge difference to Wongs first action.

[zFiend]

The assistant is the answer to this. If you know your next 4 cards, you are much more likely to get your moderate despite being on negative flips. You know if you need to spend a stone to negate the cover and allow you to cheat. You also know if the next action is gooing to be a wash out.

That does really make a huge difference to Wongs first action.

Yeah this would be my reasoning as well.

We need to get get Wong on the table and just proxy with whatever to see how it goes. I think there should be potential there. We can do that in the Gremlin Civil War. If you don't mind proxies that is.

[Malal]

This is probably due to the fact that you need to hit moderate or severe damage with Lightning Jump and since most of your enemies are always in cover, you need to Focus. Which means that you will get one spell off per turn if you don't need to move much.

 

 

Chuck a stuffed pig into whatever you're targeting, with A Gremlins Luck, you can be more likely to hit the piglet so you can cheat down it's defense to get to straight or better meaning you can get the blasts off on your target + hopefully the pulse + the explosion from the piglet and because it's spread over 3 separate events, it's harder to stone to prevent.

 

Also, try glowy Pere, it's not necessarily the best tactical choice, but if you get it to work it can be devastating AND hilarious! 

[Dumb Luck]

Magical Lazarus is soooo damn good though.

[Falhurk]

I found Wong to more than carry his weight in terms of forcing my opponent to reconsider how he moves and how close he gets to things.  Also, glowey Burt Jebsen killed 5/6 of my opponents guild crew. But hey, it's all in the reflexes.

[D6Damager]

I think I remember hearing a podcast about how Wong was the top Gremlin master in the UK tournament scene? I can't seem to find it now....

[Malal]

I used him for the majority of my tournament games while using Gremlins (think only 1 game with Zoraida and maybe 2 with Ophelia) and held the Big Hat for the majority of the year.
There was a turning point around March where the podcasts stopped with the "not a real faction" jokes and started with the "Gremlins/Wong's broken" jokes   

Iirc, Proximocoal, the stinkin', theivin, ba&$*rd that stole the Big Hat from me using Ulix mostly

[wizuriel]

So had a few more games with Wong and this is my experience so far:

 

1) Not been having much luck with the Lovely assistant. I find with Wong I tend to jam my opponent with anything that moves and those 4 cards just guarantee who I hit in combat. I just find Old Cranky to be a more useful totem with the card discard and df bonuses (and Wong can usually get a few stones from Cranky). 

 

2) While Sammy with the demon bag is fun, I find it it too expensive .

 

3) I apparently have terrible luck flipping crows for the pulse trigger, even with Gremlin's luck.  So generally take glowy instead

 

4) Glowy Burt is probably my favourite Glowy target. Reckless and Regen is a fun combo, Burt is pretty good at both range and in melee and can be surprisingly survivable slippery. Also Glowy Burt and Cranky can making targeting him pretty dangerous 

 

5) Still not sure on Lightning bugs. I find they go good damage and are fast, but just seem super fragile for 6pts. I've been having fun though tinkering with the unknown for the interact action. Had great success with that for some schemes like cursed object or distract. 

 

Been looking at this as kind of my default list (depending on schemes)

Wong -- 3 Pool

 +Explosive Solutions [2]

 +Ooo Glowy [1]

 

Old Cranky [4]

Burt Jebsen [7]

 +Hide in the mud [1]

Gremlin Taxidermist [7]

Lightning Bug [5]

Lightning Bug [5]

Slop Hauler [5]

Stuffed Piglet [2]

Stuffed Piglet [2]

Trixiebelle [8]

 +Gun For a Lady [1]

[Malal]

 

So had a few more games with Wong and this is my experience so far:

 

1) Not been having much luck with the Lovely assistant. I find with Wong I tend to jam my opponent with anything that moves and those 4 cards just guarantee who I hit in combat. I just find Old Cranky to be a more useful totem with the card discard and df bonuses (and Wong can usually get a few stones from Cranky). 

 

2) While Sammy with the demon bag is fun, I find it it too expensive .

 

3) I apparently have terrible luck flipping crows for the pulse trigger, even with Gremlin's luck.  So generally take glowy instead

 

4) Glowy Burt is probably my favourite Glowy target. Reckless and Regen is a fun combo, Burt is pretty good at both range and in melee and can be surprisingly survivable slippery. Also Glowy Burt and Cranky can making targeting him pretty dangerous 

 

5) Still not sure on Lightning bugs. I find they go good damage and are fast, but just seem super fragile for 6pts. I've been having fun though tinkering with the unknown for the interact action. Had great success with that for some schemes like cursed object or distract. 

 

Been looking at this as kind of my default list (depending on schemes)

Wong -- 3 Pool

 +Explosive Solutions [2]

 +Ooo Glowy [1]

 

Old Cranky [4]

Burt Jebsen [7]

 +Hide in the mud [1]

Gremlin Taxidermist [7]

Lightning Bug [5]

Lightning Bug [5]

Slop Hauler [5]

Stuffed Piglet [2]

Stuffed Piglet [2]

Trixiebelle [8]

 +Gun For a Lady [1]

 

 

2. Try Sammy with Oooh Glowy, so you can get the benefit of both Wong's limited upgrades. I love Sammy, I end up spamming Jinx with crooked legs most of the time on the opponents big melee hitters/anyone that might threaten Wong (she's a good choice for Frame for Murder too because you can wind up your opponent over a few turns so when they finally win initiative (read, let them win because you've also got Trixie) the big hitter comes looking for revenge)

[wizuriel]

I do really like Sammy with Wong (lots of good options), but not sure where to free up the points for her

[Malal]

I'd drop the taxidermist, gun for a lady on Trixie (Gremlin lure is brilliant, that + Wong's   trigger and Sammy's Jinx can keep an opposing crew away from you while you dismantle them, and the Slop Hauler, admittedly this one is personal taste and I'm in a minority when I say I don't rate them but by keeping the enemy away, you're not getting hit so don't need the heals as much in my experience.

[thebarbalag]

I don't just bring the Hauler for heals, personally. His attacks, or more specifically, his debuffs, are fantastic.

[Webmonkey]

^{( I still think that putting your Wong on the table is just plain rude to the other player,..  )}

[Jeebus]

The most important reason to play Wong: he actually has a model!!