Ironsides Take all Comers

[admiralvorkraft]

I'm brand new to Malifaux so I don't know to what degree this even applies, but generally in other mini's games I've played I have preferred to field a general take all comers list rather than tailoring my builds for a specific opponent or scenario. I've toyed with a few different leaders and come up with what I think are decent generalists lists.

 

Now Ironsides seems like a leader that can do well with most strategies and schemes so I've knocked together a few lists and I'd like some input.

 

Here's the general idea;

 

The Picket Line - 50 SS

 

Ironsides - Arcane Reservoir, Challenge the Crowds, Message from the Union

Mouse

Mechanical Rider

Soulstone Miner

Gunsmith

Willie

Union Miner x2

 

The idea being Ironsides and Mouse can hold down most areas, backed up by the Union Miners if I don't need them as schemers, the Soulstone Miner and Mechanical Rider provide mobility, Willie is wildcard area control and the Gunsmith is there for the things that need to die.

I've toyed with dropping Willie for a third Union Miner (False Claim is great and multiple Miners together can put out a surprising amount of damage up close). I could trade Willie and the Gunsmith for two Oxfordian Mages (throwing Warding Runes on Ironsides of course) OR I could trade Willie for another Gunsmith.

Thoughts?

 

[Fetid Strumpet]

You're going to get told this alot so ill start it up. MALIFAUX is designed on the concept of list tailoring. If you're just starting out its totally cool and it can work, generally, but you really need to hire your list to achieve the specific jobs you need to do.

That said you seem to have a plan with your intended list, so give it a try. I really can't offer any advice because I don't know the faction you are squaring off against, nor what objectives you might have to accomplish.

[admiralvorkraft]

Alright, so can you tell me how you go about getting better at the game? Do you just play as many leaders as possible and find the one that you like the best for each strategy? To you try and work on a specific faction so that you have the most possible options after you've declared? Right now I'm playing paper-faux, just getting the feel for the game and waiting for the leaders that I'm interested in to come out in plastic...

[rythos42]

I started last year, here's what I did --

 

I picked a Master that looked cool. Or sounded cool. Or whatever. Just pick something without knowing anything about it. (You could also go to http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/ and do a ton of reading).

 

Your chosen Master will come with a selection of "in theme" models that work well with her. Play a couple games with her, and yeah, just play with those 6 models you have and you won't be optimal for a lot of different Scheme/Strategy combinations, but you're learning and that's great.

 

As you play, you'll realize that your set of 6 is terrible at X. Whether that's staying alive in the face of your friends models, or running around dropping markers, or whatever, you'll find something. Go back to the Wiki and find some model that covers that problem.

 

 

Rinse and repeat until you find yourself owning 5 Masters and models spanning every Faction.

 

 

I guess the end result is...yeah, you can build an "all comers" list, as a start, but don't go into the game with the idea that that's how to do it. The only thing that stays the same between my Reckoning list and my Reconnoiter list is my Master.

[osoi]

You can keep with a certain Master and learn them, you vary up your crew choices with that master. Sometimes you will find that you take a stable core ste of models with that master and then add on models taht ar emore geared towards your strategy and schemes.

 

Most tournaments are organised around you picking the faction you want to play at the event, some masters ar ebetter suited towards some stratgies and schemes over others but all have tools available to them to copmplete the job, the methods just vary a little.

 

For example I was running Mei Feng as an Arcanist pretty well solidly for all my games for several months and got pretty proficient with how she played and tackled the various strategies and schemes. I played other masters as well during this time but you can defiantely stick to a master for a while and vary your crew up. I am now starting a long trek into Marcus and going to be playing around with him for the forseeable future.

[asrian]

As was said prior, you tailor your list after you draw your schemes. In the above list, yeah, I think it'd do well in a Reckoning game (seems killy enough). You go into a Recon game though (and through in something like Breakthrough as a scheme) and it might become problematic to split your forces so much. Basically start with the themed style crew, play some games, then decide what weak points you have in the crews.

That said, having played a few games against Ironsides I can tell you that Oxfordian Mages and the Captain are wonderful with her (and speculation here, but seeing as they are Themed around her, her future crew box will likely contain: Ironsides, Mouse, Captain, and 3 Oxfordian Mages....no guarantees, but that seems consistant to how Wyrd typically boxes Themed Crews). Oh Blood Mage...how my Neverborn loathe thee!

[admiralvorkraft]

Alright, so it sounds like I've got a decent  base to build from. Now to get more games under my belt, and then all the money in the world to buy models with (broke college student checking in).

[asrian]

Also, the order of operation is: Set up board and define terrain -> Announce Faction -> Draw Strats/Schemes -> Build Crew -> Pick/Announce your two personal Schemes (or don't announce). So basically you tailor your crew to the available scheme pool, then, after you see specifically what the opponent is fielding, you have a last chance to finalize your Scheme selection.

Case in point: Assassinate is in the pool. You build your list, keeping it as an option. Your opponent Announced Outcast Faction, and when he revealed his crew you see he's playing Leveticus. You then decide Assassinate might not be optimal.  

[asrian]

Alright, so it sounds like I've got a decent  base to build from. Now to get more games under my belt, and then all the money in the world to buy models with (broke college student checking in).

Play some. Understand though that Ironsides and Crew are unreleased atm (no models for her and the crew as she's a new master). So you still have until at least January before she's even available (if not longer unfortunately as she's a master I want to play too once she's released). If you like her though, and like other Arcanist masters, then start with one of the others that are available, so that when she is released and you get her then you already have complimentary models to go with her box set.

**Edit: Play some Vassal Games to get the feel for the crew is what I meant to say at the start of this post.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Well, what you can do is what you have, create an all comers list of a master you like, and play the crap out if it, getting used to what works when, and what doesn't work, and when.

Just remember that if you opponent is tailoring you might get beaten like a baby seal. And that's alright, as long as you don't come into the game expecting to create an all comers list that always works. You'll did that often people with favorite masters will develop a strong core of models that almost always get brought, and then other models fill out the ranks depending on the goals of the game.

Ultimately the only way you are going to get better is to play the models and see what works and what doesn't, for you. Its totally cool to play a list with the intention of learning, just don't play it thinking that is what the goal is.

[brdparker]

I'm brand new to Malifaux so I don't know to what degree this even applies, but generally in other mini's games I've played I have preferred to field a general take all comers list rather than tailoring my builds for a specific opponent or scenario. I've toyed with a few different leaders and come up with what I think are decent generalists lists.

 

I've toyed with dropping Willie for a third Union Miner (False Claim is great and multiple Miners together can put out a surprising amount of damage up close). I could trade Willie and the Gunsmith for two Oxfordian Mages (throwing Warding Runes on Ironsides of course) OR I could trade Willie for another Gunsmith.

Thoughts?

 

Ditto all the above about tailoring to schemes/strats/terrain/opposing faction. That said, when I was starting out, I would try to get at least one new model in each game so I could understand its role. Wasn't always worth the points, but after a couple of plays, I could generally find a place for it in certain situations. Any model suggestions then would be based on my own positive experiences with a particular model in its context environment. That said...

 

Definitely take a look at the Ox Magi. They almost always are worth the points. Got a combo I wanna try out with the Magi and Willie where he takes a walk and damages the Magi before they activate (2 dg becomes 1 due to their "armor"), and then Ironsides gives them the plus flip to their ranged attacks, which defines the board control for the rest of the game. Man, that sounds fun.

[admiralvorkraft]

That does sound like fun. I'll run the list with a few variations and see what happens. The players in my area have as little experience as I do so I probably won't get the healthy clubbing I really need.

I very much appreciate everyone who says this is a fool's errand. I'm sure that you're right, I just can only buy-assemble-paint so many models and I'd like to get some mileage out of the ones I decide to buy.

[asrian]

Not a fool's errand, just not the optimal way to play.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Agreed, just mentioning what I did because a lot of new players try to do what your original post was about, but they don't do it as a learning experience, or as a simple, I only have this much money, will this crew work a good portion of the time, they do it because they are familiar with other systems and expect to build their one list, and then get upset when they get clubbed over and over head, because they aren't tailoring.

[thebarbalag]

Also, as you're learning to play, don't worry about being competitive. Focus first on having fun, and second on learning from each experience. Set goals for yourself within a given game, like "try to score X points on Y strat or scheme," or similar, so that even in you lose, you're at least accomplishing your own goals, and learning to focus on objectives. Malifaux is an incredibly complex game, and the way list building works is a big part of that. Don't sweat not having money for a ton of models. It's totally reasonable as you're learning to ask opponents to also play from a limited pool of models. I enforce this in my store with learner leagues. The more experienced players enjoy it as well, as it lets them focus on specific aspects of their faction(s). 

[mythicFOX]

Also, as you're learning to play, don't worry about being competitive. Focus first on having fun, and second on learning from each experience. Set goals for yourself within a given game, like "try to score X points on Y strat or scheme," or similar, so that even in you lose, you're at least accomplishing your own goals, and learning to focus on objectives. Malifaux is an incredibly complex game, and the way list building works is a big part of that. Don't sweat not having money for a ton of models. It's totally reasonable as you're learning to ask opponents to also play from a limited pool of models. I enforce this in my store with learner leagues. The more experienced players enjoy it as well, as it lets them focus on specific aspects of their faction(s). 

 

Some of the best advice I've seen in a while.

[admiralvorkraft]

I don't have enough players in my area to even think about playing competitively. I'm trying to recruit more players but right now there's three of us and we're all brand new, so...

 

Thanks for then input everybody! I'll let you know how it goes when I get a game in.

[asrian]

No problem and best of luck. Also, look into the Vassal forum section if your like me and have very few players (I tend to try to get at least 1 Vassal game a week in as there aren't many players at my LGS here either).

[Fetid Strumpet]

If you want I have terrain and many crews if you feel like a trip to scenic Oxford.

[asrian]

If you want I have terrain and many crews if you feel like a trip to scenic Oxford.

I still have my Lynch crew from last time we played here in Memphis.

And now have Pandora, Lilith, and about to have Zoraida finished. Thank you though, sir.

[admiralvorkraft]

Only if by Oxford you mean Oxford, Iowa...

[Math Mathonwy]

You're going to get told this alot so ill start it up. MALIFAUX is designed on the concept of list tailoring. If you're just starting out its totally cool and it can work, generally, but you really need to hire your list to achieve the specific jobs you need to do.

To be fair, the most prestigious Malifaux tournament in Gencon was just won using a fixed list.

[zFiend]

To be fair, the most prestigious Malifaux tournament in Gencon was just won using a fixed list.

Really? that is amazing!

[Godgolden]

I tend to do really well swapping one or two models out, most the time my list remains the same, isn't foolproof but when you get good with a set range of models, they start working outside the typical norm.

[Kadeton]

To be fair, the most prestigious Malifaux tournament in Gencon was just won using a fixed list.

This is slightly skewed by the Gaining Grounds format - with the limited Strategies and Scheme pools, I ended up playing basically the same list every game anyway. It's a small step ("planning ahead") to just playing a fixed list at that kind of event.