What would you want to see in a Malifaux 2E Starter Set?

[Far_Traveler]

Many games have starter sets to introduce players to the game. They have also included special items not found elsewhere or only after time has passed. Why hasn't Wyrd come out with a starter for their new edition of Malifaux 2E rules?

 

My questions to the good (and naughty) people and entities of the forums are:

 

1. What two crews would be a good match for a Malifaux 2E starter set? Both to demo and expand upon. Perhaps two new crews?

2. Would you have more than one starter for different matchups and variety?

3. Besides a mini rulebook, what else would you include: two decks for the starter (themed for each crew perhaps), paper or plastic terrain, playmat (2X2, 3X3, 4X4?), tokens, story based scenarios to introduce players to the rules, or something else?

4. What should the cost be versus the value of the contents (IE: if you bought each thing separately)? 100%? 90% ?%

5. What would make existing players of Malifaux 2E want to buy it if they already have one of the crews in the starter? A new figure? A special edition sculpt of the crews?

 

I don't work for Wyrd, I have just seen other starter sets of different companies (GW 40k and fantasy, Spartan Games Firestorm Armada and Dystopian Wars, and now Infinity 3rd edition) and wonder why Wyrd has not done the same.

[Ausplosions]

1: It would need to be a Fluff based match up. So Sonnia Vs Raspy, etc. The other option is you purchase the set, and you can choose any two scaled down crew boxes to go with it..

2: Absolutely. Unless you do the "choose any two" option above then one will work. Otherwise 2 seems a decent number.

3: 2 decks, 1-4 terrain pieces, 2 tokens and marker sets (not cardboard). Definitely a scenario. Strategies and scheme decks, and a LE starter box only models (Maybe a Mister?) I would include a guild scrip, and some sort of letter or similar from a Malifaux citizen.. Something fluffy..

4: No idea, probably a question for someone more qualified. But I'd pay a good amount for it.

5: the fluff additions and the "choose any two" option.

[therat]

What about some way to make the set sort-of custom? That is, there's a box for the starter set that includes two decks, mini rulebook, maybe some terrain, etc. Instead of coming with models the cost of the starter could include the cost of two box sets that would be grabbed to go along with it. So someone could grab a starter set along with No Shelter Here and Open Graves.

[Rameses]

 

1. What two crews would be a good match for a Malifaux 2E starter set? Both to demo and expand upon. Perhaps two new crews?

2. Would you have more than one starter for different matchups and variety?

3. Besides a mini rulebook, what else would you include: two decks for the starter (themed for each crew perhaps), paper or plastic terrain, playmat (2X2, 3X3, 4X4?), tokens, story based scenarios to introduce players to the rules, or something else?

4. What should the cost be versus the value of the contents (IE: if you bought each thing separately)? 100%? 90% ?%

5. What would make existing players of Malifaux 2E want to buy it if they already have one of the crews in the starter? A new figure? A special edition sculpt of the crews?

 

1) I believe that a scaled down version of Lady Justice and Seamus crews would be a good starting point say an alt sculpt of both Lady J and Seamus plus 2 each of thier minions. This would give a fantastic starting ground for Malifaux. (Sure the buyer would have to buy the full Box sets to get totems and Henchman. But Wyrd is a for profit company)

2.) Realistically yes. But some Masters don't lend themselves well to starter boxes. IE: Summoning Masters would be right out.

3.) Two Fate Decks that would be unique to the Starter Box. A fold up paper 3x3 play area. A mini rules manual and Quick Start rules: ending with a tiny Story Encounter that can be played 1 player or 2 player (using University of Transmortis style rules for the one player)

4) Well that would be up to Wyrd. I have no idea personally how much it costs for all this jibberjabber.

5) HELLO MCFLY. Alt Sculpts of Masters and Fate Decks themed only for the stater set. This will be enough to get the average compulsive collector (read: Malifaux player) buying at least one Start set.

[Justin]

What about some way to make the set sort-of custom? That is, there's a box for the starter set that includes two decks, mini rulebook, maybe some terrain, etc. Instead of coming with models the cost of the starter could include the cost of two box sets that would be grabbed to go along with it. So someone could grab a starter set along with No Shelter Here and Open Graves.

 

I...don't think this is feasible at all, really.

[Eldarion]

I'd agree that a fluff-based pairing would be good, and probably based off of an iconic pairing, such as "Seamus vs Justice" or "Sonnia vs Raspy"

 

Start with one set, and expanding if sales warranted.  The problem with expanding this is that most of the classic pairings involve a guild master, although with 10T annoying everyone some new ongoing rivalries may form there.

 

I'd definitely include some training scenarios that exercise the rules, with increasing complexity.  Then a couple of "full crew" scenarios.  A few cardstock buildings that match the scenarios would be a good idea, but I don't think I'd do any "real" terrain. 

 

Unlike a GW game or (to a lesser extent) PP game, coaxing existing players to buy a set would be tough, since we don't have an endless appetite for more grunt troops.  Ponders for a moment  Maybe if they did a Nicodem vs Freekorps or vs Gremlins intro box, since about the only "generic troops" i can think of are mindless zombies, freekorps troopers, and bayou gremlins.  Possibly guild guards for a Lucius crew, but even that's pushing it.

 

[Edit] - As Rameses pointed out, alt-sculpt masters may pull in a lot of existing players, thanks to our OCD Collecting tendencies, but it might tick people off as a blatant abuse of the loyal base.  Unless it was someone who you could use more grunts for, as well.

[DeleteAccount]

Frankly, I just don't really see how you could make a starter set work on Malifaux. The factions are a bit of a loose thing and in the end people chose a master, not a faction and go from there. Using only 2 of the 39 masters to make a starter set just doesn't seem that compelling. Also, how much would it cost? I mean, 80$ gets you two starter boxes, so it has to be a similar price, be cheaper or have more value so it's not just blatantly ignored, because why would I bother buying with a buddy a starter with Lady J vs Seamus for example when I could just go for Nicodem and Perdita which are the ones we like?

[Mister Monkey]

Why does it have to be a Master?

 

A starter box is just that, a starter..... a couple of Alt sculpt henchmen and a few basic troops would probably suffice.

[Tuttleboy]

Interesting. To me this screams that it needs to be 2 full crews that can be taken up to 50 SS, including upgrades. A small rule book would be great and an introduction rules set. Take a look at Corvus Belli's Infinity 3rd edition starter box (Operation: Ice Storm) for what seems to be a good set of introduction rules.

What would encourage me as a guy that's been playing and a henchman buy it? 2 crews that are specifically constructed with noobs in mind. I don't care about alts, I want crews that let me show how the game works to new folks.

[Roleand]

Maybe a Guild Marshal and three guild guards vs a generic Reserectionist and three guild autopsies. Make sprue of tokens and some simple terrain, throw in two decks and a mini rule book and you're set.

[necroon]

1: I agree with Ausplosions on the crew choices. I saw a Henchmen do a demo last weekend using Sonia and Raspy and it just hit me as being an amazing demo crew for a multitude of reasons. 

2: Not to start with, no. I think taking it slow and gauging a response is a good idea. 

3: All the tokens and terrain are a good idea - as is a small 4 x 4 mat to play on. In addition a story encounter between the two, maybe based off some exclusive included fluff, would be an excellent idea. 

4: 80 - 90% I would think but I'm not strong in this area of things. 

5: I'd buy it for the terrain and Mat alone, myself. Plus it's a Malifaux thing that I don't own so... yeah. 

[Mason]

If I were going to do a starter set, I'd have it be brand new Henchmen and Minions on each side, specially designed to make sure that they showed off the game without getting weird with it.  Then it's good as a starter, and still has a use for already existing players who want the new models. 

 

Sort of like a "double" Transmortis box, only the second crew would be different from the first.  

 

 

EDIT:  For instance, Guild vs Arcanists, Henchman, Enforcer, and two Minions on each side.  One minion on each side could be Living, the other a Construct, just to demonstrate the scrap and corpse dropping of models. 

 

Then just pick a minor theme to tie everyone on each side together - for instance, the Academic Characteristic - that makes them cohesive to play together, but also tie the models back to the various Masters in the Faction proper, so that they work well outside of the starter box, but also to give a bit of a "chocolate sampler" of that Faction's themes to a new player.  You really like the way that Guardsman model works?  Well, Lucius specializes in making Guardsmen better!  The Construct really drew your attention?  Let me tell you about Hoffman!  And so on. 

 

Toss in some cards, a small rulebook, some counters and a few pieces of punch out terrain.  Maybe a coupon for $5 off the webstore just to get players logging in and checking out the website. 

[AverageBoss]

I...don't think this is feasible at all, really.

Agreed. Different crew boxes cost different amounts of money. so this would not work.

 

Looking at Warmachine (the other big skirmish game), thier starter set is 2 (crew?) boxes, 1 add on box for each group, 2 sets of game components (dice/templates), and 1 mini rule book. They have two different such boxes.

 

It's an easy formula to copy and can encourage players starting the game to invest in more than one faction/leader. Sonnia/Raspy works. I would not mind seeing a Lynch vs. ??? box though (I really like Lynch ).

[rgarbonzo]

A Malifaux "Battle Box", if you will should include the following

 

2x Starter Boxes
2x Fate Decks
1x Mini Rulebook

 

Depending upon the box either an extra henchmen or enforcer. 

 

The Crew should line up as follows

1x Master

1x Totem

1x Henchmen

1x Enforcer

3x Minions

 

 

Or similar to the Transmortis box where you have

 

1x Henchmen

3x Minions

2x Fate Decks

1x Mini Rulebook

2x Story encounters specific to the box.

 

This way you can incorporate models that can be grouped together i.e. McTavish and Gators (or Boars). 

Oh and incorporate the hardcore rules cuz hardcore rocks.

 

 

$99.99 is the magic number to sell these at

[entropolous]

To keep it in typical 2 player starter box price range (~$100), I would look at each side having 1 henchman and one pack of minions/enforcers that are not currently in or planned to be in master starter box (along with 2 fate decks a mini rulebook, and some terrain).  Something like Snow Storm and some acolytes, McTavish and some gators, Toshiro and some Komainu, etc.  I think you'd have to limit it to a setups like this to keep the cost of the box in line with other game's starter sets.  If you include a henchman and minions in the box that are also included in a master box, there is going to be some bad blood about having to re-buy the models you got in the starter, just to get their thematic master.  Also with a set-up like this, you are a master starter box away from being able to field a 50 stone crew with options.

[some_scrub]

One challenge with Malifaux is that already very inexpensive to get started with. One of the biggest selling points in my opinion is that $40 buys you a 'real' starter crew that is very close to the ideal size for a game. This is in contrast to a game like Warhammer ( my second favorite game) where the relatively affordable 'starter boxes' give you between 1/3 and 1/4 of a normal tournament size army. 

 

In games like that, the goal is to provide a very cheap starting point for 2 players to entice them into the game. For Malifaux, the advantage of a 'starter' set' would mainly just be that there's a single thing on the shelf to buy. It's a way to lower the barrier to entry in terms of 'research' effort rather than time.

 

That's why I like these 2 ideas: 

 

To keep it in typical 2 player starter box price range (~$100), I would look at each side having 1 henchman and one pack of minions/enforcers that are not currently in or planned to be in master starter box (along with 2 fate decks a mini rulebook, and some terrain).  Something like Snow Storm and some acolytes, McTavish and some gators, Toshiro and some Komainu, etc.  I think you'd have to limit it to a setups like this to keep the cost of the box in line with other game's starter sets.  If you include a henchman and minions in the box that are also included in a master box, there is going to be some bad blood about having to re-buy the models you got in the starter, just to get their thematic master.  Also with a set-up like this, you are a master starter box away from being able to field a 50 stone crew with options.

 

Why does it have to be a Master?

 

A starter box is just that, a starter..... a couple of Alt sculpt henchmen and a few basic troops would probably suffice.

 

The box I'm envisioning could have 2 henchmen led crews and some appropriate enforcers and minions (targeting 25 ss games) , 2 special fate decks, a mini rulebook, and a starter box pamphlet. Ideally these would be models that aren't in any crew boxes (or are something like Bayou Gremlins where we could use more unique sculpts ) so that new players would have obvious next steps: After you buy the starter box and get a few games under your belt, you can choose your favorite master from the corresponding faction. 

 

The pamphlet would include a few things: 1) Basic introduction to the story of Malifaux, 2) Quick start rules with some examples that use the models in the box 3) Some little bit of fluff describing an encounter between the models in the box 4) A 'next steps' section describing how people can expand their game, with special emphasis on describing a few different crew boxes that people could pick up next.  

[Arli]

I like the idea of a Henchmen with some minions.  This would work well with the size of the box while keeping the costs down.  That would allow the players to play smaller games at about 25SS.

 

While it could include an enforcer for each side, it would work well without it.

 

Throw in some terrain pieces and a mat and you have a good box that won't break the bank.  I bet something like that could come in at about $60-$75.  With the cost of most other games, that fits reasonably well within the budget.

[Roleand]

Maybe throw in 3 upgrade cards per side, as part of the advanced rules, to show choices in customizing the characters

[rgarbonzo]

In addition to my above ideas you could always include a plastic play mat with a layout for where cards and such go (already have an idea for this). As for markers depends on what box you get, could throw corpse, scrap, etc, one thing though is soulstones. Official Wyrd SS YES PLEASE!

 

So for a total of 99.99 you could get 2 full crew boxes, 2 decks, a rulebook, trinkets, playmat and soulstones. That may not be financially viable but it may be at the henchmen led level...

[Gorbad]

I think you would be better off with a 'starter kit' containing all the extra bits needing to play and then you add a crew but I'm honestly not really sure it would work. With the Warmachine ones if you are going to play one of those factions you are going to want some of the stuff in the starters. Maybe not all of it but it will go into many lists. On the other hand if I'm doing Arcanists and there is a Raspy box in the starter bit I really want to do Colette and Kaeris odds are good I'm not going to want any of it. You would have to think quite hard about offering all-purpose utility models and double so if its supposed to be narratively based. In addition to that it would have to, IMO, not be redundant with buying anything else. So no including half the content of a crew box and then force them to buy the whole box anyway. That's just going to annoy people.

Ultimately though, you can get rules, cards, card deck and a crew for £40-50. And that gives you everything you need and a force close to standard size. Its going to be really hard to improve on that in a sensible way.

[AverageBoss]

Well the thing about starter boxes, is that they are usually cheaper than the sum of their parts, even GW gives a discount on the models bought through its starter box. The Warmachine starter I mntioned before is composed of 2x $45 boxes, 2x $50 boxes, templates, dice, and mini rule book. All these things (save the mini rule book) can be bought seperately for $200+. The starter set however costs $99.99.

 

Given this, and several other reasons, I would much rather see full crew boxes in a potential Malifaux 2 player starter box, rather than just a Henchman and 3 minions. Doing so also means that Wyrd would not have to make new models or even cut sprews any differently than they do now, thus saving some expenses.

 

Now it should also be pointed out that Privateer did not create their 2P starter kit until well into their 2nd Edition.

[AverageBoss]

I think you would be better off with a 'starter kit' containing all the extra bits needing to play and then you add a crew but I'm honestly not really sure it would work. With the Warmachine ones if you are going to play one of those factions you are going to want some of the stuff in the starters. Maybe not all of it but it will go into many lists. On the other hand if I'm doing Arcanists and there is a Raspy box in the starter bit I really want to do Colette and Kaeris odds are good I'm not going to want any of it. You would have to think quite hard about offering all-purpose utility models and double so if its supposed to be narratively based. In addition to that it would have to, IMO, not be redundant with buying anything else. So no including half the content of a crew box and then force them to buy the whole box anyway. That's just going to annoy people.

Ultimately though, you can get rules, cards, card deck and a crew for £40-50. And that gives you everything you need and a force close to standard size. Its going to be really hard to improve on that in a sensible way.

Doing specific crews and forces in a starter may create limited appeal, however that is why starter sets tend to have much more value than their price tag would suggest. For example if you played only one of the factions in the Warmachine starter, and had so little interest in the other that you threw it in the trash, you still come out spending less money than you would have. As a bonus you have an extra $100 worth of models you can give to a friend or trade for something else.

 

In other words, you make the starter seem like too good of a deal to pass up, even for those who might not be interested in its full contents.

[Roleand]

I still think a generic henchman and some minions would make a better starter than a full crew, that way you could pick up any of the crew sets for that faction and have it work with your starter set and be at or close to 50ss

[ProximoCoal]

Personally I think that Rgarbonzo hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the transmortis set. Having henchman lead crews means you can put something completely new in the box, which would appeal to existing Malifaux gamers. The benefit of having only henchman lead crews is that people could then put the models from the starter box into any master in the faction, increasing the ability to customize. 

 

 I think having background and story encounters is important as that helps get people into the game and broadens the appeal. When I have chatted to people before they have said that they buy into the world and not just rules etc. so the box needs to contain all of that.

 

 I also don't think it's worth having terrain or a mat etc. I'd have fate decks in the box but that's it and maybe a funky measuring stick. At that point you have what you need to play the game, any more than that will push the price point up. As far as I am aware Wyrd gets other companies to make their products so the more different products you put in the administration of making this box will push the price up exponentially.

 

 The price is important. One of the main selling points for Malifaux is the low price point for getting started. I couldn't name a price though. 

 

 Definitely not more than one starter. You're essentially making competition with yourself. 

[nogoatsnoglory]

What if instead of including miniatures at all, there was like a beginners kit that was more of a companion rather than a choose all end all.   Imagine a player looking at a Warhammer starter set and seeing that it were Elves and Skaven, they want the starter set because that is where they think they will learn the game, but they are truly more interested in Dwarves.  To a perspective player this would be discouraging buying in to an army that you wouldn't really want.

 

Yeah the Malifaux starter could do a more neutral unit, but it might be better to just have a kit that includes some of the things listed.  A couple decks, some simple terrain, measuring do-hickeys, counters, etc.  If a new player were to look then, their purchase would be somewhat simple.  Pick the crew box that you have interest in (something similar to how players start now), pick up the starter kit companion, and finally the (most likely) slim rule book.  This keeps it cheap to entry (35/40$ for crew box, 15$ rule book, 25/30$? for kit - around $80).  The price is close to what a starter should be, but any crew could be played.