Patzer Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 On Oath Keeper, I'm not sure you're right, Ezryder. Leveticus' controller gets to pick the order in which his abilities apply, so he can apply Oath Keeper first, I believe. I am not sure, though. Finish the Job: When this model is killed, it may place a Scheme marker in base contact with itself before it is removed. Pariah's Soul: When this model is killed or sacrificed, it is not killed or sacrificed. Instead, bury this model. Remove all Conditions and heal all damage on this model. Pariah's Soul quite clearly says that Leve is not killed or sacrificed, rather, he is buried. Finish the Job only triggers when a model is killed. Thus, Finish the Job will not trigger. This is my reading of the matter. How do you interpret it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben th3 bear Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I agree with what is written there, he can't trigger an event to happen when he dies as he does not die. It makes the difference between dying and "reduced to 0 wounds" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconrider Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Awesome tactica DarkBlack, i learned a lot from it. With Levi being the damage dealer he is a cheap little Watcher could be gold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Finish the Job: When this model is killed, it may place a Scheme marker in base contact with itself before it is removed. Pariah's Soul: When this model is killed or sacrificed, it is not killed or sacrificed. Instead, bury this model. Remove all Conditions and heal all damage on this model. Pariah's Soul quite clearly says that Leve is not killed or sacrificed, rather, he is buried. Finish the Job only triggers when a model is killed. Thus, Finish the Job will not trigger. This is my reading of the matter. How do you interpret it? I could be totally wrong here. But here's how I interpret it: the controlling player picks the order of those two effects. So, right after Leveticus gets mauled by a bear, he can look at his Upgrade card and say "Hey, I've been killed. I drop a Scheme Marker. Says right here on Finish the Job." Then, once the Scheme Marker is on the ground, he can look at his card and say "Okay, I've been killed. I get buried instead. Says rigtht here on Pariah's Soul." If they applied in the other order, the Scheme Marker wouldn't be dropped. But Leveticus's player picks the order. I could be totally wrong on this. I've never taken the Upgrade on Levy before, and it doesn't seem worth the above-the-table headache to try it, but I think that's how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Pariah's Soul quite clearly says that Leve is not killed or sacrificed, rather, he is buried. Finish the Job only triggers when a model is killed. Thus, Finish the Job will not trigger. This is my reading of the matter. How do you interpret it? Thanks for bringing this up, and thanks for including the text in the discussion. I started a new thread for this rules question, since I really am not sure. http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/100841-leveticuss-suicide-mission/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Regardless of the order of things; Leve is never killed, instead, he becomes buried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Awesome tactica DarkBlack, i learned a lot from it. With Levi being the damage dealer he is a cheap little Watcher could be gold. Thanks! Glad it was helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Regardless of the order of things; Leve is never killed, instead, he becomes buried. This seems to be what people agree on the Rules discussion I started, too. Honestly, even if it were true, I don't think it'd be worth taking Oath Keeper. Leveticus gets sacrificed more than killed usually anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I removed the part about Oath Keeper. Thanks all. (Instead, I mentioned Tally Sheet.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Okay, posted most of this to PullMyFinger: http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/M2E+Leveticus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben th3 bear Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 I tried using the Hanged and Dead Doxie tonight and they both performed rather well. Hanged helped out tear apart Seamus and his zombie hoes with terrify being incredibly useful. Dead doxie was useful for moving my own stuff about alongside a rotten belle to manipulate the board position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Nice! I haven't tried with Hanged, myself. It's nice that they can shoot someone up and add to the "soften them up and do Xeno's Paradox damage" thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben th3 bear Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Plus with a reasonable walk and incorporeal he can float around to get objectives and place markers if need be. It was definitely better having the 3 anchors though (doxy,hanged,alyce) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttleboy Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 This is an excellent thread all the way through and the write up that kicked it off is superb. I can't wait to employ it and like the idea of Ryle and Lazarus in his crew. Especially if you can stick it to a Guild player when running them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxypoo Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 Great writeup HD! You make some really excellent points, and it was an enjoyable read. You briefly mentioned using other masters' theme crews, and one I've been liking a lot is taking a portion of Hamelin's crew for a super summoning list. I tend to take a list like this for strat/schem combos where I need to get to a single location and just sit there, such as Turf War/LiTS. Leveticus - From Ash, Pariah of Iron Rusty - From the Aether 3x Malifaux Rats Obedient Wretch 3x Abomination Large Steam Arachnid (then I generally add more to the cache or grab a few more upgrades) Basically, you use the Rats to Blight the Abominations, and then summon a Rat King, which turns into a Rat Catcher. Then the Abominations use Vile Reclamation on each other, and the Large Steam Arachnid kills them, giving you lots of delicious scrap + Rats. You see where it's going from here: summon a ton of Rats and Abominations and Voltron them into Rat Kings and a Desolation Engine to attrition down your opponent's crew. With all the Abominations using Vile Reclamation, I find that my hand is generallypretty full as well. This setup is really, really slow however, so I wouldn't recommend it in games where you need a lot of movement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevelyan Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Nice tactica. It's good to see that Levi is still getting some love after his incredibly difficult M2E birth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Oh, hey, finally figured out how to tag this post. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drool_bucket Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Nice tactica. It's good to see that Levi is still getting some love after his incredibly difficult M2E birth. Hey, hey! Welcome back, my man, your absence has been noted! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben th3 bear Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 First time playing with Ashes and Dust in 2nd ed (yes I realize I am somewhat late to the party here) good lord is that thing nasty! Playing against McMourning he killed Sebastion, Rogue Necromany, took a bunch of wounds off McMourning himself and then gained me a bunch of VPs through breakthrough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted June 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Yeah! Ashes and Dust is amazing that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben th3 bear Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I did read it right that because he is immune to conditions he couldnt be slowed or poisoned or anything like that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSins Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Quite correct (also immune to positive conditions like fast and reactivate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drool_bucket Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 And Scheme conditions like Distract and Cursed Object. I love that he can close on the enemy even if that's their Schemes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropolous Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 He also gains nothing from focus or defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben th3 bear Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Oh good I'm glad I was at least doing that bit right (was going to use Alyce to try and give him reactivate before realizing that would do absolutely nothing except put him to 1 wound) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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