SanguinaryDan Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I'll admit right off the bat that I'm not working from much Malifaux experience here. I have a hard enough time remembering what my models do, let alone when I can spend Soul Stones to effect the outcome. The primary thing I've noticed is that once one of the faster (i.e. everyone else) factions gets into melee range they tend to do a lot more damage in close combat. Sure, I set them on fire. And I enjoy that immensely. It's why I chose Sonnia in the first place. But it doesn't seem to do me much good if Sonnia or Sammael or the Witchling Handler are dead. This becomes particularly frustrating when I have to take a TN12 Terror test just to target most models in many of these crews. Thus far I own: Sonnia's Crew box 2e Witchling Handler 3x Witchling Stalkers (1e metal) Peacekeeper - Haven't tried him yet (too many SS, or is he?), but he looks SO cool Guild Pathfinder & 4x Traps (tried summoning Traps, EPIC failure) Freikorps Specialist - on order My next game will be 45SS and I'm wondering how I keep Sonnia and other high value models out of reach of the claws/blades/fangs of some of these 2 or even 3 times quicker melee specialized opponents. Should I just field a wall of Witchlings? Is there a model/s I really need? Any and all help is appreciated. Even if you have to be vague. Just not too vague. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I'm liking Ryle and a handler with Sonnia. Ryle can be pretty tanky and with the handler and some rams he can set alot of models on fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb_man Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Francisco Ortega is pretty good since he can give her +2 DEF which brings her def to something respectable and he can pull Melee dudes off her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durza Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Killjoy. Send in a Witchling, hit it with Sonnia to get the blasts, once it dies out pops Killjoy who goes to town. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryDan Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'm liking Ryle and a handler with Sonnia. Ryle can be pretty tanky and with the handler and some rams he can set alot of models on fire Bring Mean Machine Angel with Sonnia? He's awful good at offense. But I don't see him being al that much scarier in melee. Or am I missing something? Regardless, very tempting if I didn't already have the Peacekeeper. Francisco Ortega is pretty good since he can give her +2 DEF which brings her def to something respectable and he can pull Melee dudes off her. Liking this concept. His DF and WP boosts combined with Sonnia's innate abilities and upgrades could push her to impressive stats. And he's actually still human. Plus at a SS cheaper than Sammael he has better baseline skills and is faster. Only issue will be that he's not as synergistic with the rest of the crew since he lacks the Burning buffs. But if I want Sonnia to last longer he's a winner. Just have to make him as Clint Eastwood looking as possible. Killjoy. Send in a Witchling, hit it with Sonnia to get the blasts, once it dies out pops Killjoy who goes to town. No! Bad Durza. Undead Warcraft Ogre thingy is evil. Scary as all hell. But E-V-I-L. How can I maintain my image as one of the "Good Guys" if I bring Killjoy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttleboy Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Take a look at the much maligned Executioner. He can be a fragile at times, but there aren't many enforcers that do melee better. Another one to look at is the Guardian from W2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durza Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 No! Bad Durza. Undead Warcraft Ogre thingy is evil. Scary as all hell. But E-V-I-L. How can I maintain my image as one of the "Good Guys" if I bring Killjoy? Leave no witnesses, which with Killjoy is easy But if Killjoy is a no-no, you can't go wrong with the Peacekeeper, it soaks and dishes out damage like no ones business. I've had one take two shots from the Judge, a charge from lady J, and a charge from an Executioner, with the final attack just being enough to kill it. That's 3 activations from models who aren't slouches in dishing out damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryDan Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 So the Peacekeeper can dish and soak. Check. But I like the way Francisco works as well. My only problem there is I'm not a fan of the model, either plastic or metal. I want a more Clint Eastwood High Plains Drifter vibe than bad stereotype Mexican bandito. Any suggestions on where I can find that model or which 2e plastic would be easiest to convert? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 No! Bad Durza. Undead Warcraft Ogre thingy is evil. Scary as all hell. But E-V-I-L. How can I maintain my image as one of the "Good Guys" if I bring Killjoy? But you didn't bring him! He just popped randomly from a dead dude and went to town. Luckily killing the opposing fighters, but that was just a lucky coincidence. A random happenstance, I tell you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryDan Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 While that is a perfectly viable talking point to use with the press (generally also a class of undead scumbag) I just can't get all that excited about the model to be honest. Sure, he is a truly massive can of whoop ass. But I don't like the model as much as some of the other options. Should the Peacekeeper not live up to expectations, or Francisco prove impossible to find a properly Clint Eastwood-esque proxy, I may revisit that choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 No! Bad Durza. Undead Warcraft Ogre thingy is evil. Scary as all hell. But E-V-I-L. How can I maintain my image as one of the "Good Guys" if I bring Killjoy? Who in Cherufe's name ever said that the guild were the good guys? even leaving aside the fact that the governor killed his own son rather than let him hook up with someone "beneath him" and Lucius, said governor's right hand man is a neverborn spy of some sort, and the way witchlings are made is in a ritual which burns the personality and soul out of a human sorcerer who just happened to not be completely under control of the guild. Even leaving all of that aside. Sonnia is still being possesed by an undead god of destruction whose only aim is the destruction of everything. I'm just saying, her judgement, and morality might not be the most even or rational. Also, I don't think Kiljoy is undead anymore. My DMs didn't get bonuses against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryDan Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 You Sir, should leave a feller his delusions! If I want to think that the Guild are the good guys (compared to the undead and otherworldly horrors of the other factions?) I shall think so. Nyah! And Kiljoy is definitely Undead. At least as of the January 2014 printing of the 2e rulebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoking Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 What's wrong with witchlings? Little bastards hit like mac trucks up close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sklertic Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 The Peacekeeper is excellent at beating up stuff, just look uot for armor ignoring models, as he will go down fast then. Johan, Bishop or Francisco would be good alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 If there are a lot of constructs or a summoning faction is announced, and you don't mind Mercs., Taelor is pretty good, too. Honestly, Sonnia is better than you'd expect in melee, but she just doesn't have the survivability for it. Fransisco and Gaurdian can go a long way towards giving it to her. Ml5 isn't going to win any awards, but if you keep those two close to her, they will add to the meatgrinding. (Fransisco makes engaged models cry, and while gaurdian doesn't do a lot of damage, it's still Ml7 with reach 3.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think the Peacekeeper is the best choice. Sonnia's problem once people close in isn't ability to do melee damage, it is the fragility of the crew. While Frank would help with that some, with the low defenses across the board, a tarpit like the peacekeeper can hold off the enemy longer. I like the Killjoy idea too, but haven't used any mercs to know how well they would actually work. Have you considered a bunch of small minions to tarpit their melee attackers, so that sonnia and sam can keep doing their thing. I'm thinking Guild Guard or Hounds might buy you the time you need. Your damage potential already comes from plenty of other models. I haven't used the pathfinder and traps yet, but why was that a failure. I have considered trying that myself, so knowing it doesn't work before I buy models is really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymore65 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Peacekeeper is solid. It can drag, it can kill, and it isn't even slow. I think you'll do fine with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 What's wrong with witchlings? Little bastards hit like mac trucks up close. Have you considered a bunch of small minions to tarpit their melee attackers, so that sonnia and sam can keep doing their thing. I'm thinking Guild Guard or Hounds might buy you the time you need. Your damage potential already comes from plenty of other models. That's what Stalkers are for. Throwing Stalkers in there....then Flame Bursting into melee and hit either model - who cares which one? Especially if you have Reincarnate....then you can replace the Witchling you just sacrificed to kill that enemy model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I have to ask. If you are looking for a tarpit/model to keep other models away from glass cannons, Why aren't you taking a very close look at the Guardian? Seriously, with disengaging, 7Ml with a 3" range. WIth survivability, throw that tomes down for Armor 3, and protect yourself, which gives healing as well. and while the attacks don't do huge damage, they aren't Wiffle bats, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryDan Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I wasn't looking at the Guardian because I've been playing for less than a month. Is he more bodyguard-ish than butt kicker? I'm in the middle of an Apple recertification class, so I've not got my book with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Well, it was more of a general qquestion to the forums, since a lot of people seem to just overlook him... The guardian is definitely More body/territory guard than beatstick. 8SS, so expensive, with Df 6 and 8 Wds, but Armor 1 and a Df trigger to make it armor 3. The Guardian has 2 attacks, dealing 1/3/4 and 1/2/3 respectively. One has a trigger to ignore armor, and the other has a trigger and a trigger to do damage on a miss. The big reason you will bring guardian though, is the (0) protect, which allows the guardian to give defensive +2 to any friendly model within 4 until the guardian's next activation(and this includes the guardian) So between being fairly beefy itself, the Guardian has a standing threat range of Ml3 with a 7 attack, and makes one model a round really hard to hit. When it comes to holding territory, or keeping other models back so you can blast with Sonnia(And if you happen to get the guardian with randomization, the Armor 3 trigger means that severe doesn't hurt that much, and then blasts), I don't know that there are many in that price class that are as good, let alone better. It isn't great for every game, but I would consider it in most games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryDan Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Sigh. Why do all these cool models seem to fill the same medium high SS cost slots? It really does show me why our local vets say the game plays properly around 50 SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Sigh. Why do all these cool models seem to fill the same medium high SS cost slots? In order to make the choice between them meaningful. It really does show me why our local vets say the game plays properly around 50 SS. Yep. It was actually balanced at that level. and if you don't believe me, bring an elite crew against a summoning crew at 35.... Essentially, the game was built to be playable at lower levels, but balanced best at 50. That's why even weaker models are often 4-5 SS. 8 is about medium cost, and is the bulk of your elites. Which means that in the 7-9 SS area, models have to be balanced, and interesting in different ways. I think guild has some of the neatest models in that range, myself, and already own more of them than I would like to admit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge048 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I personally run Sonnia a fair bit, she is me go to master when playing guild, and I have found that the witchling stalkers alone make for excellent melee monsters. At five stones with MI 6 and 2/4/5 dmg profile (3/5/6 when you add in burning) they are pretty devestating, add in their explosive demise setting things on fire and they don't even have to live long enough to swing their swords to be effective. Tthe key is to use them like grenades. When you see something heading towards sonnia, or something else you want to protect, have a witchling stalker either charge or (if you don't have the range) double walk into melee with the advancing foe. It's MI 6 makes disengaging difficult, and if they manage to kill it they will burn up most of their activation doing it and end up on fire. Then sonnia just uses confiscated lore for a cast of nine, ignores cover and LOS and fries whatever was approaching. Even if the stalker doesn't die I'll usually still shoot into melee with sonia because if I end up hitting my stalker I can usually cheat it's defense flip low and then use it as a focal point for blast dmg, or alternatively hopikins rapid fires on it and with a minum dmg of 4 on a burning target few things will survive that. Add in sonnia's reincarnation aura to replenish your supply of witchling "grenades" and it's a devestating combination. As a side note I'm also a big fan of bringing papa loco with sonnia for the + to dmg flips as it makes it soo much easier for her to pop out the blast markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryDan Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Got to admit I rather like the image of Witchling Grenades. Papa Loco? He's the feller who blows up real good when he dies ain't he? Have to take a look at him too. And I'm really looking forward to playing 50SS games with all sorts of toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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