Maniacal_cackle

Nerfs: Stitched as in the other thread. Zoraida's discard hand/draw six should be start of activation and leader only. Not sure a third one is needed. If we have to buff something... Buff alps (partially to compensate for nerfing stitched). Maybe things like increase damage to 2/3/4, or give them triggers on biting insult (on your heels would be perfect). Pandora isn't exactly weak, but buffing sorrows could be good. Increasing range on Misery loves company to 'within two inches of the target' would be pretty sweet, and make them have a role more like crooligans (but less powerful). There seems to be a consensus that Lilitu might need a buff? It'd be great if instead of 'relish in blood', lilitus and lelus could summon their twins. Removing two corpses to summon a missing twin could be pretty awesome.

Exactly! Can be tricky to play around if you have a crew based around it and someone declares Neverborn. Any crew could bring them in.

I'm still getting the hang of her myself, but my hope for them is... Pandora is very much a zone control master (there is a portion of the board where if anything comes to it, her crew will just destroy whatever is there). The sorrows then have a section of the table they can act freely on (either by supporting with auras + stun, or scheming, or whatever). If the opponent comes into that zone to kill the sorrows, something scarier will stomp the enemy for it. As for ranking up sorrows/lyssas/aversions... I've no idea, I've not tried the unreleased models yet, but my first impulse is that they all fill such different roles it would be hard to rank them directly against each other.

Assuming M2E starters... Dreamer needs his minions to summon. Pick up stitched +insidious madness + Serena bowman (she is the best non minion in the crew and used for other crews). For Pandora, she doesn't have that many options past the starter. I'd say Hooded Rider + Iggy + Teddy/Carver (your choice as to which). Not sure about the others, I havent played them directly. Zoraida I have views on, but she has tons of different possible builds. Try to pick some synergies to focus on (such as ambush).

FWIW, a Freikorps player said in the other forum that Half-Blood are the best (Neverborn) keyword against his crew. And given that they are versatile for all Neverborn, they at least have SOME uses.

@Angelshard that still leaves a few unresolved issues, but I think we'll just go in circles. Probably best to wait for an FAQ! I'm likely going to play Dreamer at my next tournament, so it'd be great for my crew if it works this way. But I can't imagine I'd be able to convince the other players/TO that this is how it works.

Loads of models can use their bonus action to take ANY action (reckless grants fast). So the bonus action granting an additional tactical action isn't necessarily a problem. It does seem like a potential oversight, in that you can 'infinite' loop it and repeat the action as many times as the flips allow (for instance, if spamming it to kill yourself with Lethe's caress to deny a point, or spamming it for repeated triggers). But that has nothing to do with general tactical actions. That said, though it is unusual, there still needs to be a rules argument to prevent it from happening. There is the forum guideline "don't break the game", but I think the breaking here is pretty niche. But creating an arbitrary distinction between "a model's actions" and "actions available to a model" is not making sense to me, unless I'm missing something else.

I find her actions too precious to use Despair's Influence on herself. I just use mood swings and keeping her slightly behind the action by a few inches, so the enemies have to go past my primary beaters to damage her. EDIT: though I suppose if you have no other Woe models to care for and she is being moved around with Fly With Me, she might be a bit more flexible?

This line of reasoning doesn't make sense to me. Is there a rules basis for the distinction?

Stoked you like it!

I take it with Molly sometimes, mostly because I wanted to sculpt it. You have to take a grave digger to support it, but that also means more blasphemous rituals which is nice. I like it for claim jump to protect my claim jumper. It certainly isn't the best model in faction, but is sometimes useful. Certain reckoning pools can be good. But never any pools where you have to run around the table (corrupted idols, plant explosives, etc). I'm not sure about specifically with Doc. He has some corpse marker synergies, but overall you'd rather have the stuff he synergies best with (like Rogue Necromancy, Kentauroi). I also just bought the dead rider, so not sure if I'll use grave golem again. Dead rider is just so much better.

He doesn't have Pandora, unfortunately I like Ogid's direction with Dreamer, though am sceptical of Hinamatsu. I like the Dreamer models more, but have to admit lure is good. Terrorise feels better in this matchup for gumming up the super aggressive enemy, however. Widow Weaver seems pretty awesome here, having the mobility to stay alive, ability to summon extra stitched, and terrorise is a great package. Hans is the main ranged I'd worry about (especially with his ruthless), so engaging him with a willpower duel with summons should gum him up. I'd also go with a second daydream +ap, leaving a 5 stone cache. Other than summon suits, you shouldn't have to soulstones too often. Make extensive use of terrain and force them to engage you piecemeal for the first few turns. Your goal is to pick them off as you can, and power up your deck with ~10 lucid dreams removing weak cards by turn three. Don't forget to double or triple summon (stitched + daydream on dreamer + stitched on widow Weaver if able), but also he content with a simple alp summon to ease card pressure. They serve their purpose.

As a Molly player, I can tell you outmaneuvering her is nigh impossible if she goes heavy on the movement tricks. At least for many crews. Your advantage is going to lie in your ranged attacks, of course. On claim jump, for example, if you move into a position to be able to shoot the centre, Molly's dudes will have to move way past the centreline to attack you, or just get shot apart. Don't try to figure out how to move as far as they do. Figure out how to make them have to move up 2/3 of the board while you move up 1/3 of it. Then they have to move twice as far as you! Also note that not their whole crew can move at top speed. If you get them to throw Archie at you before the rest of the crew arrives, you can mow him down without being counterattacked.

In every American or UK tournament I hear of, the top tables are dominated by these three factions. Are they just the most powerful crews? Are those meta defined by special rules (single master?), specific players, or something else that makes them unusual? Am I just imagining this and Bayou are the one true gods of Malifaux? With the big UK tournament results a while back there were calls to hold off on judgements until there was more information. But it seems these factions are dominating a number of tournaments (although it is also possible the same players all dominate the UK tournaments for instance). What do you think? Certainly in my one tournament, Ten Thunders were a nightmare to play against, but that could have been lack of familiarity.

Sounds like you need more terrain 😜 But that seems like a sweet ability! It'll damage 44% of the time at worst. If you can land it on a few models, that is going to add up!

One thought is the Viktorias themselves should be ripped apart pretty quickly by Stitched Together if you spam summon them. Also be pretty careful with advancing forward - they are super good at moving up the board. I'll have my first game against them next month, hopefully, so will know more then.

As an outsider, it seems like the main plan is to get 3+ blight tokens on the enemy crew, then start spamming 3+ damage attacks? Once an enemy model has three blight tokens, you're looking at hitting for at least 3 damage with: Stolen (kinda) Hamelin Nix Obedient wretch (and the opponent can't cheat!) That's a ton of 'min 3' beaters to be fitting into a single crew. And many of them can do it from 10" away! That seems crazy for a crew also full of scheme marker and interact shenanigans. Nix seems neat on heaps of strategies, since he can shut down interacts so easily.

I think changes like that would have been great in the beta, but it is too late to redesign crews without major reason.

I think there is some weirdness happening (that trigger is a good point), but under the current rules you have to take generated actions at the end of everything else. Note however that Hayreddin controls the Butterfly jump, so he could actually move closer using butterfly jump and land the attack.

Black blood pustule can damage a target with black blood, triggering black blood. With a stone for a mask trigger, you can do it twice with one action. Do that with both actions, and you have a total of 4 black blood pulses. You deal four to an ally, but four to enemies as well.

My bad, I read that as swapping the upgrade to Hayreddin the first time. Ignore me xD

Ancient pacts on minions is nuts (for the extra card draw). I'd not dismiss it lightly!

The rulebook mentions "placed into the conflict" only in that single context. Stitched is the only model that I can find that even mentions the 'conflict'. Wyrd could have said "and adds it into the conflict" on the ability and cleared it all up, but I don't think their ability writing is that precise. I'd see these two definitions as identical (changing adds and place) I don't think Malifaux rules are so precise that we can differentiate between 'adding' into the conflict meaning part of the multiple cards, and 'placing' into the conflict as being the final card. Especially as this is the only instance of a model placing a card into the conflict, and accepting your/Solkan's interpretation gives such a bizarre outcome.

@Angelshard, as in the rules forum, I disagree that it works that way, but one thing is certain: Wyrd definitely needs to have a look at the model and see if it is working the way they intend! It is of course useful to know how people have been playing it (if all the people saying Stitched are overpowered have been playing it one way... That's pretty telling!)

I think it reasonable to think that 'a flip' is one instance and can involve several cards... But Fiendish Gamble doesn't replace 'a flip.' It says "when this model would flip a card". Those are two different things (a 'flip' being the instance of flipping several cards, while 'flipping a card' is the act of flipping an individual card). The 'clearly defined' argument in this instance (and many others) is a claim I find a bit dodgy. Malifaux rarely clearly defines terms (it doesn't use a glossary like many games do). You can also look at this page 8 text: You're clearly able to 'add' multiple cards to a conflict, but only one of them is 'placed' into the conflict in this case. However, given the wild variation in the use of terms already in this thread and the rules in this regard, I don't think it safe to draw the conclusion that just because Fiendish Gamble says 'place' it means specifically 'replace all the other cards that might have been flipped.' It seems more likely to me that under such an interpretation, it just stops you from using Fiendish Gamble at all when fate modifiers are applied (as you don't flip a card when modifiers are present, you flip multiple cards. The conditions of the ability are not met). This isn't necessarily how it works (there is also the option of it simply doesn't work with multi-card flips, but I'd answer that by: The Stitched has to decide if they are flipping from outside the game or the deck when they actually go to flip the card. Same as with The Old Ways. The step where you flip the card (step B of duels) is when you have to make the decision. You could also argue the decision has to be made in Step A ("If either player has any effects that resolve before performing a duel, they resolve now"), but same result. Since cards are flipped at the same time as the opponent in duels, you presumably have to decide before they flip. There's probably lots of ways to interpret this one, but I'd think that if you can use it in a mutli card flip, you have to use it before you know what any of the cards are (you flip all the cards simultaneously presumably, so your decision has to be made before you see any cards).