Tokapondora

Well fuck.

"The whole problem is the 2SS" Also, there seems to be an odd implication lingering in the air that by being a Gremlin player you're somehow unbiased in this matter. I play against Gremlins enough that I have a very good idea of what their faction is capable off. I'll gladly invite you to comment on your experiences with other factions because more feedback is what makes for a healthier gamestate.

The whole problem is the 2SS. 2SS models, of any strenght, will allow for huge leeway in crewbuilding. That is why they're so restricted. These were the only unrestricted 2 SS models in the game. And beyond that, they were very good for 2 SS. At 3 SS they may lag behind a bit because the Bayou Gremlins are even better, but they still have a place in specific lists.

They're not "entirely useless", they just won't be spammed without a specific purpose anymore. They can still be summoned all the same, Wong still likes one or two, if you're feeling pigapulty you can still go with some. It just won't allow you to pad out your list for dirt cheap.

Gremlins 56.41 So Gremlins average out at the highest score? Thank god we got them piggies.

You're quoting a handful of results from 2015, before Gaining Grounds was a thing, a whole lot of models were released and Gremlins and TT were miles below other factions in usage. Not sure what you're trying to get out of that about the results in GG17 with two new books of models being released.

Pretty damn strong.

It fixes 2 SS models being hireable by an entire faction. Which allows them a bit more leeway in the next models they design, it makes it harder for the already strong masters to make use of them so freely, and keeps the game in a healthier place. And Gremlins are pretty damn strong buddy. Not particularly popular, but very strong.

Hamelin and Collodi are specific masters who are balanced around having access to these cheap activations. Giving them to an entire faction is giving an entire faction a huge boost. I wouldn't mind if they got buffed to shit after this, it's still preferable over unaffiliated 2 SS units.

2 to 3 SS makes them decent choices if you have an actual plan and purpose in mind for them, rather than being 3-4 cheap activations for 6-8 SS. In a game where activations are so hugely important, allowing freely hireable 2 SS is, I feel, a mistake. You could cuddle them to 3's across their statline and I'd gladly take them for 2 SS because it allows me to offset other huge beaters.

He's also dual faction though. Can't really repeat the same dual faction.

What the Brewmaster needs is a big step away from poison. His thematic units all revolve around the mechanic of handing out enough poison, getting into position and getting the right activation order, all so you can follow it up with effects that are utterly mediocre. It's just not worth the fuss, especially since not playing on poison means you are much more flexible and free in how you can assemble your list. Imo, the reason why he's generally seen as better in TT than in Gremlins is because TT is pretty much the best faction at making a generic list that you can slap onto any master, meaning you can safely leave the poison behind and play purely staples. And even then all these Tri-chi models are locked behind a shitty 2 SS upgrade; why would you spend 2 SS just so you can take a Tanuki or Fermented River Monk - even if you thought they'd bring something to your crew, do they bring 7 SS's worth to your crew? The other thing (problem?) is that Swill just works. Using Swill on something will often be so much more effective than anything else he can spend his AP on. Obey is good in a pinch, though annoyingly suitless, and giving that suit would be a great way for the Brewmaster to both turn his AP into attacks or disrupt your opponent's units. Binge can rid a hand of its last cards that your opponent seems to save up, completely lock down an enemy unit, and even (with some help from fast and Wesley) drain up to 5 cards from a hand a turn. So with that he has a way to severely lower a model's odds of success, can damage or reposition enemy units, and attack their hand while chipping away at a model. And then there's his 3" bubble, which is like a small scale manipulative that raises its TN and heals you the more you fail it. Meanwhile he has no uses for poison besides that bubble. One attack on an upgrade that rids your opponent off all their poison to paralyze them, which runs counter to how you'd still like poison to exist on models. Why do that when a well timed Swill or two will be about as effective for zero set-up. And with his other actions all being decent by themselves, why would he spend his AP trying to even poison them. And at that point you're left with the crew doing all the poisoning and the crew using all the poison - so why not paste that crew onto a better master and get better results out of all the poison shenanigans. Beyond that 6" aura it does nothing, so why not get a great generalist master while your crew faffs around playing with poison - the answer to that obviously being that there's much more effective models to compose a crew of, and if there's much better crews to compose, why bring a poison crew to the Brewmaster.

I'd like the crewbox henchmen to stay henchmen, so for TT that leaves Fuhatsu (2ugly), Toshiro (plenty masterry already), Ama No Zako (dual faction) and thus falls onto Yamaziko, who could become quite interesting. As her card implies, her gameplay would be largely tactical, perhaps akin to a battle commander. Handing out large-scale buffs, rallying (last blossom?) troops, collective pushes maybe...

Eh, you have Shen, a style, peasant, Emissary+LRM. That's roughly your core. And I almost always make space for a Sniper. So that's 18-25 SS for 5-6 activations. Beyond that you have the TT staples and beatsticks and whatever you feel you might need to win your schemes. Yu I'd love but Shen, Yu AND the Emissary is just so expensive and supporty and I really struggle to drop 3 cards a turn. I have taken both though, and if you go with just Yu you save 3 SS on the LRM. But yeah... 3 cards... The TTB and the Effigy are of course great, as are two-three 8-10 SS beaters - or maybe you'd like another sniper in there. At this point it's really all up to you. As for how to play him - just make sure everything is or can quickly be in range of your pushes, heals and bubbles. Snipers will keep your opponent on edge t1-2 and are ideal for putting constant pressure on them, especially their schemerunners or models you want to chip away at to prep them for the rest of your crew. Shen in turn will have to make sure whatever beatsticks you have roaming around can go to whatever side of the field they're needed. It's important to know when to switch styles, and you'll fnd you're almost always too late at adapting when you just start playing him. Getting good at Shen is about 80% experience, so learn to read the field and your opponent. You get at least two 0's a turn to respond to opposing plays, but you'd be surprised at how narrow that timing can run.

As a 10T player, they are the reason I take McCabe. Standing at 6 activations and all of McCabe's upgrades for 20 SS is such an immensely powerful headstart, especially when "walk, charge, drop scheme" is what wins you points in this game. And as a TT player, I often look upon Guild masters with a fair amount of envy. The numbers are so high and the range is so far and why does half of Guild's roster have a min damage above 2 and yada yada. Every faction has some areas they do better and worse in. TT has very low min damage, lacking defenses and very little in the sense of complex synergy, but make up for that with being rather agile and very consistent. Ressers have numbers and defenses but lack that mobility. And Guild has disgusting amounts of damage and a lot of range options, but beyond that is fairly straightforward. If you don't care for that there's always other factions but realise that ultimately, it is your skill that's largely going to be winning you matches. If it's not your playstyle; fair enough. If it's how you're performing with them; realise that every faction has some inclinations and areas they're lacking in.

What masters would you consider to even have space for these upgrades and what would an upgrade take to make some space? At least for me; Misaki has Stalking Bisento, Misdirection and Recalled Training stapled to her card. Any change would I think have to come from swapping out Bisento, since MD is invaluable for a Melee master and RT too (plus, MD with a from RT and a from no more SS is almost guaranteed to go off). And with a min 2 on her damage, I'd struggle to part with the to damage from Bisento and RT. To really get me to discard the 's to her Bisento it'd need to either make Thunder go bonkers, give Bisento a built in , give a new ability entirely or just a huge slew of triggers. Mei Feng, likewise, is filled to the brim with upgrades with me often wishing I could pop a fourth on there. Misdirection, naturally, since she wants to be in groups of enemies and it allows a 's to do something on success or failure. Add to that Seismic Claws since it's kinda what gets her card rolling and then Vapormancy tends to win out over RT, as much as I'd like RT on her. It's just such a massive AP saver and the possibility to blast into close combat with just a 6 is often too good to pass up. I could probably stand to miss it if we got another piece to trigger Mei into longer and more combos. Perhaps even a new attack. I'd probably still default to Vapormancy but with a Terracotta Warrior I could see the match-up and make my mind up then. Now Lynch I definitely have a spare slot for. With Woke Up With A Hand and Rising Sun you generally have most of what you need from him, and while I never say no to an RT up there I never really need it with him. It's just a nice extra that I wouldn't mind swapping out for anything else. The Brewmaster has Binge and that's it. Anything to fill that up would be more than welcome. Preferably not poison based. And something strong, because he needs it. Desperately. Now McCabe is, as one would expect, filled up nicely. With Promises already glued onto his card and Misdirection such an alluring mid-game swap I'd find it a waste to not have this upgrade be one like his other treasures. Just a new toy he can toss across the room. I might take it, might swap it out, might leave it alone - he's already on top of the TT powercurve so he'd be best off with an alternative rather than something to make up the difference. Yan Lo is, again, filled up. Misdirection is the natural go-to since he tends to dive into enemy crews, and I find Reliquary unmissable since it's pretty much the one thing that makes Yan an interesting and unique choice over other masters - an Izamu and Emissary that I can treat as disposable as I want. And that leaves us with the final upgrade slot which is heavily contended by both Fortify the Spirit and the Khakkhara. I know the Emissary buffs it, but I'm still not huge on it in all honesty. With Df and Wp 5 I find he's still rather vulnerable, just moreso to awkward conditions and control than death. And with that you have a trigger on half your defenses. I think I'd much prefer an Ascendant upgrade to a normal one. At 3 Chi the Bone Ascendant is to me a bit too awkward to take already. I hope it'd be 1-2ish Chi and maybe let Yan give his crew some mobility. Or maybe fill him up with Triggers. And Shenlong is one of those rare masters that actually has space galore for upgrades. I'm quite content with a Style and leaving it at that. I've occasionally gone with a Misdirection if I felt he needed to pull his weight as a beater, an RT is one of those things that seems nice in theory but I never really get much from it. He has loads of space. But he's also, like McCabe, head and shoulders above the rest. I'd be a tad worried about giving him something that would be seen as a "worth the 1-2 SS", since he'll always have space for it and it'd turn into a straight buff. So for him I'd much prefer another Style to give some more options. Ideally one that's compatible with Yu giving him maaaybe some competition over Wandering River or at least gives Terracotta Warriors something to toolbox into. And lastly there's Asami, who I tend to fill up with upgrades but really wouldn't mind swapping out some. A Heavenly Design is the one autotake. Beyond that I tend to have Nefarious Pact since my main group has a habit of stocking up on condition removal, at least against me (something about Lynch and Brewie being my main masters, I'm guessing) and she can always use the extra card. And lastly there's Servant if I suspect Wp-y shenanigans or the occasional Fate of Mortals if I feel the schemes enable it. All very much replacable, though. If anything, I'd like her to get something to ease up on her card intensity. 's to attacks generated on charges around her, maybe raising duel totals of Oni by 1 around her... Just something to up her supportiness and give some relief after the TN's on everything.

Neither of those are new models though. Just alts. It'd be nice if of the 9 previews and 5 other new designs 2 factions were represented in some fashion.

You're forgetting the five or so new designs from the latest Wyrd Chronicles, none of which appear to be TT or Gremlin either.

@Adran At least from the TT side, definitely Ascendent. His upgrade line-up tends to already be filled to the brim with stuff he very much needs. A nice other option would fill him out quite nicely. In an ideal world it'd be something to let him target friendlies with Lightning Dance. It'd turn Yan Lo crews into this teleporty clusterfuck, which is always exiting and would certainly give a strong boost to the Resser side of things.

I wouldn't seperate the two. If you gobble a handful of Burning and then fail to pass it on with your other actions you've just torched your own unit, and on a (1) which can only be done after your (0) which will only work after doing 2-3 attacks since Burning doesn't stick it's too much work and risk to outweigh the rewards. Also at a 7 and now having to discard a card and discarding another card to get that charge started that's a whole lotta cards for one 6 SS model activation. I'd still go for something closer to... (0) From The Ashes (Ca 6 / TN: 12): Remove a combined Burning +4 off of enemy models within 3 to gain the Reactivate Condition. The Phoenix Rises: Heal 3 damage on this model. All Was Fire: Until the end of the Turn, this model adds to all their final duel totals Scattered in the Wind: Place this model within 6" of its current location. Clad in Embers: After succeeding, this model gains the following Condition until the end of the Turn: "Ablaze: If a model deals damage to this model with a attack action it gains the Burning +3 condition." To explain my reasoning... The Enemy only thing is only fair. I rarely play against Burning crews so it very much slipped my mind. Now removing Burning +4 I'd say is a fair cost because it's just tough enough that you require either a lot of luck or a model or two assisting you to get it. Unlike poison you can't build up towards it, it needs to be then and there when you activate this model. If you then take it upon yourself to make 3 attacks and manage to succeed on all of them and get that extra trigger in then fair enough, take that reactivate. can be 3 or 4, doesn't make that much a difference. should be the one built in, since all it amounts to is removing Burning+4 and turning it into Burning+2 if you just hit your attacks to +4 if you can both manage another charge and are fast. 8 might have been a bit much (was possibly set to 8 to keep it 4-4-4-8 but 3-3-6 should do «.« ».»). should really be +3 at the least. With zero defenses they need something to keep enemies from instantly melting them and +2 just kinda lacks that oompf you need to deter attacks. felt more fitting though, giving plenty of space to counter this trigger. And then Call Unto The Flame could be a trigger to their standard attack; Call Unto The Flame: After succeeding, move the Burning condition from the target model to a model within 6" and LoS. It'd synergise with All Was Fire, and you'd need to succeed on a defensive duel, but at the expense of applying burning with that attack and wouldn't get in the way of them being designed as chargey models. All in all I don't think it'd really turn them OP, since it ultimately only buffs them if they can get 4 Burning in. A must-have for Burn-style TT lists to be sure, but with the sparsity of those lists going around in the first place I'd say it wouldn't hurt. Without back-up burning they're still the same old High River Monks with a small chance of a reactivate. I do like the idea of something like these though. Add to them Mei, the Shadow Emissary, NewStatue and some general stuff and that'd make for at least a fun list I'd imagine.

Eh, it's a very rough idea but I'd say unless you were up against another burning crew you wouldn't be spamming this all across the board. You still need your enemies to be in that 3" bubble, you can only gain reactivate once and if you after that want to both apply and remove another 4 burning for a place or a heal I'd say more power to you. Though of course you can always stipulate to take burning from enemy units only. They'd still be severely lacking models for the rest of their card, but it'd allow burning crews to become a somewhat viable direction to go. And wouldn't allow them to become premium schemerunners either, since it takes an entire activation and a bit of luck to even get that +4 by themselves. Or perhaps something simpler that would let you redistribute Burning from an area, so you could divecharge or have something blast into a group, apply a handful of burning, and then hand that over to some enemy with higher defenses or spread in such a way that you can just finish units off.

Maybe let them drain the Burning off of models around them to gain reactivate like an opposite Fermented River Monk? Something like... (0) From the Ashes: Remove a combined Burning +4 off of models within 3 to gain the Reactivate Condition. It'd still require them to make three hits and throw on a tome on one of them to get it by themselves, so it wouldn't exactly be spammable. Though to be honest, I still wouldn't see myself use them, because a reactivating High River Monk is still a High River Monk (and possibly because removing 4 damage is quite a steep cost for what they do). So maybe... (0) From the Ashes: (Ca 6 / TN: 10): Remove a combined Burning +4 off of models within 3 to gain the Reactivate Condition. The Phoenix Rises: Heal 4 damage on this model. All was Fire: Until the end of the Turn, this model adds to all their final duel totals. Scattered in the Wind: Place this model within 8" of its current location. Clad in Embers: After succeeding, this model gains the following Condition until the end of the Turn: "Ablaze: If a model deals damage to this model it gains the Burning +4 condition." It'd be a rather significant boost, but takes 4 damage and an entire activation of heavy condition applying (you'd need to charge or cheat in 2 tomes) and leaves them with all their other weaknesses. Maybe give them HtK to ensure they'll even survive long enough to make that first burning. Or maybe change all the 4's to 3's. As you've probably noticed by now, I do not have a lot of faith in the High River Monks.

If you want the crew to handle the poisoning you might as well get McCabe, the Dawn Serpent and a Performer. The Dawn Serpent can reactivate into giving up to 10 poison a turn, you can take a fair amount of minions who can poison too to give McCabe more options, and while that's happening McCabe and really all models can flutter around the battlefield without your master becoming stuck in a giant melee 5 turns straight.

Wesley is nice, but not Paying 2 SS for a 3 SS model nice. And definitely not Paying 2 SS + a 5 SS model that I would've much rather be an entirely different model -nice. Lets be honest, that upgrade should never have been a thing and at the very least Wesley you should've been able to take without paying that extra cost. As it is now it's far too big an investment just to get your totem on board. @Rugh Z'ull, The problem with that is that you're playing the Brewmaster on poison, and you don't want poison, you want Swills and Obeys and Binges. And after you've handed those out, you are much better off getting models that kill harder than models that poison harder since killing harder just means your opponent has one less threat to activate.

I'd definitely take neither. The Golem requires an expensive upgrade you don't want and isn't that stellar anyways and the Dawn Serpent is stuck with min damage of 2 and nothing terribly exciting. Like ^ said, go with Izamu, Yasunori, and (personal favourite) Ama no Zako. With a or two to defenses, the Ml5 suddenly doesn't hurt as much and at 3/5/7 can be a great finisher. Also you can Obey units into her Terrifying range and cheat in low to essentially permalock them. Yasunori meanwhile can get about 7 attacks off if you choose to obey him with Brewwie as well. 10 if you take Wesley but then you'd have to take that darn upgrade. 13 if you get Ama no Zako too and obey wesley into obeying Yasunori :x. But yeah, Yasu is great, and personally I love Ama. Have taken both on a few occasions and really haven't regretted it.