Kharnage

The new target sure, but it doesn't make Joss not at one point targeted. If the Guardian had taken the hit for, say, the Brutal Emissary, Terrifying (11) would still have to be tested for before the Guardian decides to Take the Hit. I don't see anything that says the original model doesn't count as having been targeted.

Take the Hit: After an enemy model targets a friendly model within a2 with an Attack Action, this model may discard a card to place itself into base contact with the friendly model and become the new target of the Attack Action (ignoring range, LoS, and targeting restrictions). Obey: This Action cannot target the same model more than once per Activation. Non-Master only. Target model takes a non-F Action that does not Attach Upgrades or list a model by name, chosen and controlled by this model. Zoraida, being the jerk she is, targets Joss to Obey him, hoping to use that Axe into Hoffman. A Guardian nearby takes offense, discards a card and becomes the new target of the Obey action. The Guardian takes a swing at Hoffman, etc, and then Zoraida's second AP comes up. Can Zoraida target Joss "again"? Does she count as having tried to target Joss the first time, and can no longer obey him? What about the Guardian that became the new target of the action, can she Obey him now?

The boxes are enemy only, so.... no.

Just to be clear, you can't hire Masters in henchman led crews. So no Nurse/Lucius combos

Most summoners have one ability that happens to summon a model I think the big distinction is that it's a reward for brilliance-expunging a target rather than just AFK model summoning in the back like most summoners do. If he's looking for a card manipulately monster theme, might I recommend... GOD EMPRESS NEKIMA! Her defensive trigger sees you draw cards whenever a foe cheats to hit you, which when you're Nekima, is all the time! Also, Lelu(s) and Lilitu(s) both have card generation mechanics based on Blood for Blood and Sadistic Glee, respectively. And Nephilim are certainly monstrous. If that doesn't work for you... then perhaps the Elites/Mimics are more your speed. Better card manipulation and there is a subtle horror theme going on within mimicking humanity and living among them.

Being quite familiar with the double-shaman razzle-dazzle, nothing stops me from having Nekima, a much more capable leader, as the master while I do this. Ml 7 3/5/6 is just a more solid track to give focused to. Or Lilith. Or hell, Hayreddin.

You mean there might actually be a reason to take Barbaros as a leader now? For those Mature Nephilim with Servant of Dark Powers? Hmmmm.... Though combat finesse does refer to a singular "duel". Inhuman Physiology is less clear. Either way, FAQ for sure!

Inhuman Physiology: Enemy models cannot Cheat Fate when targeted by this model's Attack Actions. So how far does the rabbit hole go? If he Mimics Jury's Ancient Words, can they not cheat the Glimpse the Void Wp duel because it's part of his attack action?

Zoraida x Pandora, McCabe x Mei Feng, Nekima x Lilith, and Youko x Misaki. It is by no means a comprehensive list, but I think it's at least decently representative of what might be considered the more powerful combinations. Nekilith is of course the most successful of these combinations in my experience, and it can be a surprisingly aggressive, effective pairing, but I don't think it's unbeatable.

I personally don't find dual masters to be particularly gruesome. Every time I've seen a secondary master they just kind of... melt. Having 15-16 stones of person who doesn't put out more than their stones worth of wounds and AP on the table, no matter how much cooler those wounds and AP may be, just takes away some teeth.

I remember asking this question in Beta, but not what the answer ended up officially being. Relevant rules: Relish In Blood: After this model kills an enemy model with higher Cost or removes a Corpse Marker, it gains a Grow Token. After gaining a Grow Token, this model may discard two Grow Tokens to Replace itself with a Nephilim Minion with Sz of 1 greater than itself. Nekima's Hurl Corpse Trigger: R Fast Food: A friendly model within 2" of the Marker may remove it to Heal 2. Grim Feast action: Remove target Corpse Marker. This model Heals 1/2/4. My question is this; does Relish In Blood have the option of interrupting the action in the breaths between "remove corpse marker" and "model heals"? Because if it can, then it means my 7 health Young Nephilim could eat a corpse, get to Mature, and then heal to its new Max HP of 10.

Is Shenlong really that bad of a dude? His kit's cool and all, but assuming that Tempered Steel works against Irreducible Damage, he's chewing through the rough stuff like the rest of the masters, yeah?

In my experience, our perception of what Masters are capable of, are at their height of power, nestled into a crew that works to support them, with free run of the resources (namely, the cards and stones) available to that crew. In a double master crew, that usually falls short of the sum of its perceived parts. If you burn a couple stones and cheat half your hand that you farmed Family Values triggers to have Perdita land those shots, then Justice starts to top deck to resolve her turn, and at that point she can actually fail actions. Multiple actions, purely dependent on luck, instead of those crucial in-hand face cards and stones for triggers. Justice in her own crew would instead be the first stop for those big cards and stones, and her actual power increases because she's not in a resource starved environment. There are masters that can replenish resources burned, Zoraida or Misaki as examples, but stones are finite, and there's only one King of Rams per shuffled deck; Perdita and Justice aren't both getting to use it to attack. So I think double master is an interesting pick, but not by definition the optimal pick.

So, while we're here, Let's say Molly uses her One More Question attack action on an engaged Goryo. She declares the Debt of Gratitude trigger. Would the Goryo reduce the 1/3/4 flip AND the 2 damage from Debt trigger because they're two separate instances of damage, or only once because it's the same attack action?

I am interested in the Goryo!

I played a Redchapel game, bringing the dreaded do-not-take Belles, and managed to tie out the game. I'm not sure I've actually lost a game on Nephilim yet but the edition is young. Non-Nephilim games I play can go either way, but I don't ever feel shut out at crew select, so that's always a good sign. I think most of the time that I win games in M3e handily, I think to myself "why did my opponent do that and not this other thing" a few times during the game. Honestly, Redchapel players (to summarize the keyword, not the players) always seem to be the most vocal about how hard their lives are, but I haven't made any sense of it as to why. I'd say keep playing until you get the hang of things, or seek out successful players of your kind and see what they're doing to make it work. The game itself I would argue is fairly balanced, moreso than M2e ever was, though there will always be gaps here and there.

Yeah, if it says "the model takes damage from the burning condition", then I would say Incorporeal would not stop the damage. It's taking damage expressly from a condition, which is relevant in other ways (Like if you're flameborne, for example, then Sonnia's Scorch the Soul would have no effect) EDIT: Though one might argue that in the same way that a model can either suffer damage from triggers or actions, but there are triggers that are within actions, that Scorch the Soul damage qualifies as both damage from a condition and damage from an attack. Thoughts?

I don't think there's any reason to believe there's a queue of that nature. Magic the Gathering basically has a whole doctoral thesis on "the stack" and card resolution, but Malifaux does not currently. Let me run through a scenario. A 2 health Nekima attacks and hits the 2 health Drache Trooper. 1. He can give it a neg to soulstone (nope) 2. Nekima flips for damage, dealing 3 damage. 3. His armor reduces the damage. 4. He lowers his health to 0. 5. He has no after damaged or specific health effects. 6. He has no health, is "killed", then resolve the following. 6a. Drache has no Eternal or whatever, nothing happens. 6b. Nekima doesn't declare Feed the Young. 6c. Nekima places her healing into the "resolution queue"? The Trooper explodes, but for some reason this goes "on the stack"? 6d. The model dies and is removed. Step 7 that now exists because we decided there was a resolution queue: Nekima heals now, the pulse from the Drache trooper is measured from nowhere, nothing happens? That's the issue, if the reading of Sequential Effects of "Sometimes, an effect will create additional effects as it resolves. In these cases, fully resolve the initial effect before moving onto any additional effect. Additional effects are then resolved in the order they were generated, after any effects which had been previously generated have resolved." means that the Demise isn't resolved until after the model is removed from play, then explosion Demise abilities would never have anything to measure from. Additionally, if I have to "fully resolve" step 6 before I can do anything actually in Step 6, Demise (Eternal) abilities would be put in "The resolution queue", then the model would be removed at step 6d, then would heal, but already be removed from the game. Either Resolve means "completely do this thing right now", and Demise Eternal works, or Resolve means "put it in the resolution queue", in which case it doesn't. It has to be nested.

My brained is fully trained only on Breathing, Fine Dining, and playing Nephilim good, so I'm not able to quite follow what you're saying @santaclaws01. Are you saying that my original interpretation of "we said no nested effects, but JK this a nested effect because we have to resolve each step before moving on" is correct? That is to say, it's possible to heal out of death by killing people with Demise effects with heal-on-kill abilities?

Nothing about Oyabun's Command supersedes the Once Per Activation restriction. The fact that it addresses the "while engaged" if Last Blossom is a good hint that all restrictions would otherwise normally apply.

The fact that Incorporeal ignores hazardous terrain aside, a better example would be "a trigger gives you stunned, and Pandora uses Misery to damage you, did the trigger damage you?" The answer is no, because there is an outside effect, not in the words of the trigger, that damaged you, Misery in my example. But there's also no text in Stunning Strike triggers that says the model suffers damage. The Trigger, the words inside of the Trigger text, say that the model can choose to suffer damage. That is pretty straightforwardly suffering damage from a Trigger. A Trigger, that is part of an action. The "Actions or Triggers" verbiage on Black Blood is so that things like the Amalgam "Unmade" defensive triggers, despite not being actions, still provoke Black Blood. Ergo, Incorporeal can reduce damage from attack actions, including the part of their own attack action, the Necrotic Decay Trigger. At which point, he can choose to suffer 2 damage, reduced by 1, to 1 damage actually suffered as per Page 24, which is all he pumps into his damage track as bonus.

But he didn't ignore it. He dealt damage, and even if that construct had been analyzed for weakness, he would still deal damage, reduced by 2, to the target. Then, completely separately, the model dies to execute. Just because the model died doesn't mean armor was ignored. In the same way that if it had 2 HP left, and Howard Langston dealt 4 damage, and then killed it, it wouldn't be "ignoring" the armor either. All that armor needs to do to not be ignored is to reduce the incoming damage. That's it.

"I don't ignore armor, I ignore the effects of armor" is the essence of the argument here, which I think is silly. Irreducible damage is in clarified under Damage Reduction, of which armor is damage reduction. "Irreducible damage ignores damage reduction from all game effects" is what it says, but you're saying it should have said "Irreducible Damage ignores all game effects that would reduce it" which would have been super awkward and I think more confusing. Any Hoffman at a table of mine will be reducing Irreducible Damage.

It does matter. Because demise "when this model is killed" and Teach Them Fear "when a friendly model kills an enemy model" both occur simultaneously in step 6c, so the active player resolves their step 6c effect first.

So from my earlier Demise related damage healing a model out of death questions, Joss has the electrocution Demise ability and can get hired into Guild for the On the Prowl ability to do the same thing as the servant of dark powers on Drache Troopers. My question is about timing. Page 25 "There are some game effects that can Heal a model after it has been killed. If a model is Healed after it was killed as a result of being reduced to 0 Health, it no longer counts as killed (and is not removed from the game). Any other effects that would happen as the result of the model being killed do not occur. " Page 34 Under Damage Timing. "When a model suffers damage, it follows the timing structure below. If multiple models suffer damage at the same time (such as from a Shockwave or Blast), resolve each step below on every model being damaged before moving to the next step. " If a model kills a model with Demise and heals out of death, does it stop exploding, and ergo stop resolving effects that would happen as a result of death, i.e. the rest of the explosion from Demise? Additionally, If a 1 wound Joss attacks a 1 wound Mature Nephilim in range of Teach Them Fear aura, and gets splashed on to die, what happens? Is it: The Mature suffers damage, causing black blood damage to Joss during Step 5 of Joss's Attack, who dies. Joss is the active player, who resolves his Demise now while the Mature is still at 0 wounds, and then the mature, being the non-active player's, would now resolve the effect that occurs when Joss is killed, healing 1 for Teach Them Fear, causing the Mature to basically survive the explosion? This seems to be a nested effect, since we completely resolve Joss's step 6 death sequence before we even get to the death sequence of the Mature at all.