Nagi21

Not sure what the issue here is. Hidden Martyr is that your enemy doesn't know which model is the one that scores when killed. The idea is that if they kill it, you get points. If they don't kill either of the models, you don't get points.

So NC meta has ruled, based on a (currently paywalled) TFW podcast with a designer from before GG1 dropped, that if you fail a GYL flip for any reason, your opponent gets a 3/4/5 straight, cheatable damage flip against your stitched. That's so far the most official thing I have.

So the NC meta has ruled that if you fail a GYL attack for any reason, your opponent gets a 3/4/5 cheatable damage flip against you, that they flip.

Anyone having flashbacks to old Magic where they had cards with "Opponent loses next turn"

Knocking off a point of Df, and changing a main ability to be weaker for you than it is for your opponent is not a minor nerf. Arc, Bayou, Rezzer. Bayou they were very good but Arc and Rezzer didn't have much issue with them. My issue isn't that they change GYL, my issue is that they apparently didn't think it through far enough, and now any reason that GYL fails lets the opponent have a 3/4/5 straight, cheatable flip against me... which is what GYL was prior to the nerf. There's no parity.

I mean it's not rules information per se, it's an interview from a bit back. Problem is there's multiple ways of reading this effect and there's no solid answer, and now we have speculation from interviews with the design team.

Supposedly the playtesters/designers went on TFW and said it's basically if you fail for any reason (terrifying, etc.), the opposing model gets a 3/4/5 straight, cheatable flip against the stitched. I can't confirm this since supposedly that vid is behind TFW patreon wall until later.

I mean people complained and now they get the old GYL cheatable damage, while we have to deal with Terrifying, and accuracy modifiers, and higher TN's. Overkilling something that the community complains about is not exactly new here...

I think the better question is do those strategy markers count as terrain period. Not sure they do.

I mean that kinda does seem to what is implied... Also Lucius isn't hit that bad, just his main enforcers (you still have options like Hina and Thoon).

I mean to be fair, pushing for any benefits for NVB is like trying to climb a waterfall with three limbs tied behind your back XD

They needed a nerf... they didn't need to be run over with a steam roller and be made trash.

Welp... NVB is dead aside from Nightmare and Woe...

One change to Stitched that might seem subtle... if you target a model with Terrifying and fail the terrifying check, you take the gamble damage since the action failed... Nice catch Wyrd

Nightmare, Fae, and Woe aren't so bad with this update because they, unlike most of the other parts of the faction, have defensive tech. Terrifying, armor, and Incoporeal. The other 4 factions relied solely on positioning, and nerfing this has nerfed those 4, 3 of which weren't exactly top tier to begin with. I really have no idea what exactly Nekima is supposed to do with these changes, since now she literally has no defenses that don't rely on her opponent needing to cheat, which for a faction that is df5 on average...

Any non- melee attack within 6". Spoiler, that's basically nothing, and we could already do that from before. This nerf is a complete overreaction from Nekima success at recent events.

The inhuman reflexes thing is going to kill the faction. It was an overreaction to people who don't understand how easy it is to kill NVB complaining about a 3" push because they didn't bring any ranged tech. Nekima is basically dead in the water now since matures get no benefit from it worth its cost and Nekima is not a master that requires much cheating to hit (I blame Kharnage for smashing LVO). Pandora and Candy will love it but that's at the cost of Marcus, Nekima, Lucius, Euripides, and Dreamer. Geryon are no longer very tanky since they can't stay alive reliably vs 2" reach models (ie all big beaters). I'm not exactly sure how wyrd's testing crew managed to keep their NVB models alive during the supposed testing of these changes...

"Hey y'know that upgrade that lets Mature nephilim stay alive? Yea lets make that so it only works on enemy's cheating." "But you can't cheat vs Matures..." *Taps head* "I know..." - Wyrd 2020

Summoning stitched is solely Widow's job, among other things (although I do hire 1 stitched to get the LD protection). 1st Turn Dreamer summon is always going to be Alp + Daydream unless I can't get a 12 or better to hand (with double pact this usually works). RJ is always used to get a pair of alps when it comes around (unless I need it for something else entirely, but that's a very low chance since it's 10 ss of model vs whatever it needs to happen). Can't say I've needed to summon a madness yet, but that usually because the alps are really good for their cost (I'd say they're underrated).

Be mindful that Kaeris's crew is quite good at killing cheap models (6 stones or less). Iggy is almost certainly a trap as he loses to both SS miners and Mech rider at distance, and the crew itself doesn't particularly need triggers to do their damage.

Same with Killjoy. Interesting decision the opponent would have to make if played right.

I think Turf War will probably stick around. It's been around since the olden times and it's a pretty standard, balanced strategy that favors both murder and mobility. Runic binding seems... fiddly and in need of clarifications on release. We're officially in the territory of calculus and trigonometry.

- Dreamer, 1st edition, 2009

I agree the Nightmare crew itself isn't very mobile like some crews, but the spiders are very mobile, and by the same token, very strong. They can't be handled by just sending off some small minions to perturb them, as you'll lose that entire part of the board if on of your models die (because widow = stitched). Slower crews will have to split forces significantly to maintain board control. Hypermobile crews can counter by bringing enough force to bear without sacrificing much on the other end, which is crucial because remember, summoner. I agree on the conclusion though. You really need to play it very front loaded, because there's nothing dreamer likes more than a protracted fight over objectives.

So score points while denying your opponent's points >.> Nice advice captain o7 Joking aside I wanna hit on a few things. This strategy only works with hypermobile crews (which are different from just mobile crews) such as Molly or Nekima. The pair of spiders is actually very dangerous and requires significant investment to stop, because while Bandy is a bit squishy, Widow is not, and if you lose a model to them (any model), stitched are going to become an issue for you, which also means it frees up summons on the part of the board you're not on (i.e. where dreamer is). This strategy can get out of hand very quickly if you underestimate the ability of the crew to put a lot of force in more than one place. Good news, bad news. Good news: Nightmares are not the hardest thing in the world to kill and scoring 2-3 points on this is fairly reasonable for you. Bad news: Nightmares are some of the deadliest and most mobile things in the world, and will almost certainly be scoring as many if not more than you do on this. Claim jump/Prisoner/Outflank all make this a rough, high-scoring ride. Running away doesn't work so hot because the summons pop up off your models, unless you run so far away that wp duels become a non-factor, and at that point how have you managed to kill anything to score? Advice: Bring guns... lots of guns. This one looks better on paper vs dreamer than it actually is. Remember that Dreamer is a summoner. The fact that you can only nuke markers down to neutral means that he's going to have spare models to activate to reclaim those turf markers. He can also unbury Insidious next to your models that have activated markers, and then activate them after scattering you. Also, remember that Dreamer wants you to come kill his stuff, because as you said, that's his castle. Turn 3 onwards you have to come to him to get points. Ancient pact daydreams makes this very difficult as you say, particularly if he gets a good hand early. Turn 3 onwards, unless you're playing as Mah or something, you're not going to be able to control the markers, because the lucid deck will start coming into effect by then. Best bet into this one is to try and pick 2 schemes that don't require any interaction with the enemy to get 4 points off, then try and go all in on winning an early T2 or 3 initiative to score a point off Idols. Dreamer with more than 5 points in this strat nearly always wins.