Math Mathonwy

...or Dashel? I do think that Factions still have identities and even though you can bend a Faction to do whatever, they clearly excel and struggle in different areas.

That's a pretty hilarious mental picture of a little gremlin running up to someone and going "Shoot him! Him next!", the guy being befuddles by that and then *boom* with McTavish being all cool afterwards blowing smoke from his gun

The way I see it, you took exception to someone hoping for an LGBT character. If I followed your reasoning, you believed that the character would somehow automatically be a one-note token character with glued upon theme of being gay or something. Now, imagine that someone would've wanted a character with any other descriptor besides LGBT. Let's say that someone would've said that they wanted a vampire character or a resurrected crusader or a possessed gremlin or whatever. Would you have reacted the same way? That there is a chief danger that the possessed gremlin will be a one-note token possessed gremlin and totally uninteresting merely serving to satisfy that fan. So are you taking exception against all fan wishes or just wishes for more diversity? I didn't engage the stuff about stock photo characters because Malifaux isn't a stock photo and the differences between Malifaux and a stock photo are so vast that the whole comparison is IMO useless to discuss so I engaged the rest of your point number one. If I haven't addressed the strongest form of your argument, maybe you could re-iterate it as I have now read your original post several times and the above is all I can get out of it. Which is what I engaged with. I also note that I dislike your accusations of dishonesty.

Good post! I like the concept of "overworked". Just a quick note on the above: Slop Haulers don't need LoS (their heal doesn't target and it isn't a Pulse - they can happily toss their slop through walls).

@Bazlord_Prime great job with the stats! Very well done! Also kinda takes away the premise of this thread, I guess.

Swinecursed are ridiculously difficult to balance due to Wong boosting Magical so much. But if they lost Reckless, I don't think they would be very popular with Wong anymore and absolutely no one would take them with anyone else. Agreed. No one would take LBs over Slop Haulers/Banjonistas in that case. They would be complete trash. Agreed though it would hurt Iron Skeeters so badly that I'm not sure they would be taken anymore.

You said that "Gremlins don`t have as little defensive tech as some people suggest" which isn't a very useful statement. Gremlins also have less defensive tech than some people suggest. Some people suggest all sorts of things! I also think that counting up defensive abilities isn't very useful. Loudest Squeel is massively better than Squeel, Armor +2 is way better than Armor +1 and comparing Armor +2 to Loudest Squeel isn't very easy. On the field Gremlins tend to lose to attrition which leads me to believe that they are a bit more squishy than average. They also tend to hit harder than average so it sorta evens out. Kinda ties into the whole Reckless thing, really.

Maybe just simply "Whenever Ophelia discards an Upgrade with the Limitation of Ophelia during her Activation, draw three cards and discard one." Or even "Whenever Ophelia discards an Upgrade with the Limitation of Ophelia during her Activation you may discard a card to Summon a Young LaCroix into base to base contact with Ophelia." Would give a real incentive to use her guns.

So you're saying that people are free to want whatever as long as what they want isn't more diversity? I'm quite honestly having difficulty following you here. I understood that. It doesn't seem to have any bearing on the above, though.

Congrats on the good performance! Especially nice winning against Perdita with Ophelia! And Raphael is very under appreciated, I feel. He is outshined by Burt but that is a completely wrong comparison. Raphael is an amazing flanker while Burt enjoys a crowd.

You can not use Reckless but then you don't get the benefit from it. Which was my point - people seem to discount that one Wd it causes which is fine when theorizing and always having a Slop Hauler nearby but in actual game that Slop Hauler is in a different place or dies to a lucky Sniper or whatever and then the Wd from Reckless does count. Gremlins look super scary on paper if you count that everything goes their way but it's a different situation on the table. Which incidentally is why I suggested that you try Gremlin for a while. Ah, fair enough in that case, I suppose. Thank you - the feeling is mutual!

Eh, I've just read that Sandeep makes all other Arcanist Masters (maybe barring Marcus) obsolete, Nellie does the same to Guild, and all in all the balance of Malifaux is absolute crap. I mean, you could probably build a similarly short lists of "competitive" models for every Faction were you so inclined. Which is naturally a pretty extreme view. Compared to most other wargames Malifaux's balance is great and unless the players are super evenly matched, taking Moon Shinobis won't cost you the game. Besides, lame0's list is missing quite a few models which I've seen used in competitive environments by people who did extremely well (Sammy, Raphael, Pere, War Pig, etc).

I want something absolutely brilliant for Ophelia which restores her to glory and opens up her playstyle. And makes her Gun mechanic work. I know it's a tall order but I'm hopeful.

I still suggest you try playing a few games with Gremlins. "6 min damage 2 hits" - are you even serious here? What's the relevance of that? A Peacekeeper takes 11 min damage 3 hits but no one is ever going to do that ever. Also, they have 6Wd if they don't use Reckless. Which is the main thing we're discussing here. But they don't damage themselves! This is really the big deal about Reckless. So if a Faction has the highest Tournament point average, then they need to be n€rfed? ...that might not be a good idea in the long run

Yeah, but that's where he shines. Otherwise using him as a healer is weird and difficult. So like I said, "weird". It takes an Upgrade slot, it's limited in number and it requires cheating. That's quite a few limitations, IMO. Yup. Sure. It seems that you aren't really disagreeing with anything I said, though. You keep suggesting across the board changes to Reckless as opposed to changes to the top picks. Therefore I engage with you on that level. And really, Gremlins are squishy. They do lose the attrition game. All that little damage does add up. Dude, I was agreeing with you! You would use him if he was just like he is now but without Reckless?? OK, I really, really suggest that you play Gremlins for a bit as you obviously don't and therefore seem to entertain some really weird views. Raphael was used by the Adepticon winner unless I missed something. He is very underrated. I like him a lot. Let's talk Taxidermists, then. 6 Wd, 4 Wp, 5 Df (and Armor +1). Does this tick the marks for low survivability for you? Where that Reckless damage makes an impact? How bad should they be to be bad enough for you? Wp and Df 3?

Archie can do for Ressers with Hulking Leap...

Thank you! A longer post is easier to engage with (also one of the main reasons why I dislike Facebook for conversations such as this). Gremlins do have good healing. But said healing is often limited (Dirty Cheater), rare (Regeneration - only through Wong, right?), expensive (Fingers), weird (Lightning Bugs), or doesn't have to do with Reckless (various Pigs). That leaves mostly Slop Haulers as a general solution but they are slow when they wish to heal so it puts pressure on positioning and they are also pretty squishy. Furthermore, they lack chain activation so there's always a window of opportunity to take advantage of the wounded state. Finally, many of the Reckless models simply don't have all that many Wounds to begin with so even that one wound does hurt. "the fact is they haven`t" - that is not a fact. It's an opinion. And probably a minority opinion at that. To be fair, even if he costed 1SS he would still be one of a kind and wouldn't make Trikk lose games exclusively because of him. So I'm not sure that that is a useful definition of something being broken or not. Also, Cg stat of eight would certainly be very decent (right?) and I hardly think that would compensate for losing Reckless. Would make Raphael very, very sad. But again, why are you suggesting changes to Reckless when you are actually are concerned about Burt and Merris? Why not simply say that Burt should cost 9SS and Merris should have Drunk and Reckless instead of Reckless? Or whatever you'd consider suitable n€rfs for them?

So you're saying that because a couple of models that you find too strong have an Ability, it should be changed no matter that the change would affect loads of models that you're fine with? That if I find Francisco too strong, it would be valid to suggest a change to HtK, Critical Strike, and Flurry because he has those and if they are changed, Francisco would be fine? I don't understand your line of reasoning at all. Because, you see, I agree that Burt is too strong. In fact, I would think that many, many people would agree. So if you frame it like that, you will not only tackle your actual problem but also probably have something of a consensus. But you frame it as Reckless being too strong and suddenly you have a huge debate and are talking about something else that what you actual problem was. I just don't get it.

If you are complaining about Burt and Merris, please complain about Burt and Merris as opposed to about an Ability that they share with a dozen or so other models!

Ummm...

Entirely possible and indeed I would posit a similar hypothesis. However, it's worth noting that if/when Reckless changes, lots of other things will change as well so it's a bit meaningless when comparing to the current situation or the suggestions put forward in this thread.

I understand your suggestion, I don't understand why you're making it. To re-iterate my argument, to me it seems like it would only strengthen the most powerful actions in the game (like Summons and Triggers with massive effects) - why would you want that? Don't you think that, e.g., Resser Summoning (which almost always requires Crows and is done by SS users) is powerful enough as it is?

You usually burn a Stone for extremely powerful Actions that need a suit like Summoning and such or for very powerful Triggers like Thinking Luck or Loudest Squeel or whatever. I feel that all of those effects are already powerful enough so I'm not sure what your suggestion would be trying to accomplish?

I once played a Tara crew with (Resser) Tara Death Marshall Void Wretch Gracie Angel Eyes ...and some Resser stuff including dual faction TT model or two. Can't remember exactly. And it was missing an Arcanist. Won that game (though man is Angel Eyes lackluster!)

Hamelin and Lucius are individual Masters, not "Faction identity" -level abilities. I also don't agree that "GG17 has shown how undercosted Reckless is". I tried finding the conversation on Facebook that started this but finding it is tricky to say the least and these sorts of debates on Facebook tend to be, in my experience, pretty worthless with two-sentence posts that tend to devolve into "l2p noob" in no time flat. So maybe I'm missing some context here, but there's stuff on other Factions that do Scheme marker Schemes just as trivially like Practiced Production or Titania or whatever. All that said, I wouldn't be averse to changing Reckless into not stacking with Fast (but that's not GG17, it's Iron Skeeters).