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4thstringer

Guild in the competitive scene right now

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16 hours ago, longfanz said:

Do you know the list/lists?

Thanks!

I played this list for all the games. Was my first time playing it for real, after one practice game at home. It’s really strong and I feel someone with more experience can easily play top tables with this.

Declared Faction: Guild 
Crew Name: Sonnia Poland 50ss 
Leader: Sonnia - Cache:(3)
   Cherufe's Imprint 1ss 
   Cherufes Parting Gift 1ss 
   Counterspell Aura 1ss 
Malifaux Child 2ss 
Francisco Ortega 8ss 
   Hermanos De Armas 1ss 
   Wade In 1ss 
Dr. Grimwell 9ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Papa Loco 7ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Brutal Effigy 4ss 
Guild Investigator 6ss 
Watcher 4ss 

 

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30 minutes ago, ttsgosadow said:

I played this list for all the games. Was my first time playing it for real, after one practice game at home. It’s really strong and I feel someone with more experience can easily play top tables with this.

Declared Faction: Guild 
Crew Name: Sonnia Poland 50ss 
Leader: Sonnia - Cache:(3)
   Cherufe's Imprint 1ss 
   Cherufes Parting Gift 1ss 
   Counterspell Aura 1ss 
Malifaux Child 2ss 
Francisco Ortega 8ss 
   Hermanos De Armas 1ss 
   Wade In 1ss 
Dr. Grimwell 9ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Papa Loco 7ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Brutal Effigy 4ss 
Guild Investigator 6ss 
Watcher 4ss 

 

So can we get games recaps?

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1 hour ago, ttsgosadow said:

I played this list for all the games. Was my first time playing it for real, after one practice game at home. It’s really strong and I feel someone with more experience can easily play top tables with this.

Declared Faction: Guild 
Crew Name: Sonnia Poland 50ss 
Leader: Sonnia - Cache:(3)
   Cherufe's Imprint 1ss 
   Cherufes Parting Gift 1ss 
   Counterspell Aura 1ss 
Malifaux Child 2ss 
Francisco Ortega 8ss 
   Hermanos De Armas 1ss 
   Wade In 1ss 
Dr. Grimwell 9ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Papa Loco 7ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Brutal Effigy 4ss 
Guild Investigator 6ss 
Watcher 4ss 

 

Shouldn't be the child 3ss? My core list is pretty similar but I run the Emissary to burn things without line of sight and a couple of stalkers.

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23 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

What kinds of pools or tables do you not like her in?

As other said already - there are very interact heavy pools where you have to interact with your opponent to get any points, an unusal lot of LoS blockers are not your friend, and maybe the most important part - it's maybe not that she can't play them at all, there's just other Guild masters who can do it better / I feel more comfortable with :)

 

 

btw, great to see some discussion again at our board^^

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55 minutes ago, jchrisobrien said:

I played this list at CC Meltdown, except I swapped a Thrall in for Dr. Grimwell.  

You mean the ttsgosadow list? I think that that list is 1ss over what it should be as the Malifaux child should cost 3ss, right?

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Child is 3 yes, but if you count models & upgrades they still clock in at less than 50, so it's all legal.

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9 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

Child is 3 yes, but if you count models & upgrades they still clock in at less than 50, so it's all legal.

I could be wrong but being Sonnia 3 cache that cache can't be used to hire, right? The total ss is 48 so it would be illegal.

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He probably copy pasted it from the app which shows (last time I saw anyway) only the base cache, not actual base+leftover ss. It's a bit dumb like that.

By my math there's 48ss of stuff, so his cache ought to be base (3?) plus 2ss.

edit: no you can't hire with cache. No-one's been trying to make that claim either.

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32 minutes ago, longfanz said:

I could be wrong but being Sonnia 3 cache that cache can't be used to hire, right? The total ss is 48 so it would be illegal.

Uhm, you have 50 ti hire with and Sonnia's cache adds 3ss on top of those left over from hiring so that list is 100% legal and would have a 5 ss cache.

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37 minutes ago, Nikodemus said:

He probably copy pasted it from the app which shows (last time I saw anyway) only the base cache, not actual base+leftover ss. It's a bit dumb like that.

By my math there's 48ss of stuff, so his cache ought to be base (3?) plus 2ss.

edit: no you can't hire with cache. No-one's been trying to make that claim either.

Ah, I see, my mistake then. I tought that that was the cache pool, not the base cache :( 

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Thanks for the kind words, but I must admit this list is heavily inspired by Duncan Blitz. He ran Sonnia very succesfully in Nova, if I recall, some time ago and this list has been pieced together based upon different facebook threads with lots of discussion about the ideal list.

The list indeed almost solely supports Sonnia. I feel there is literally no swap you can make in the list without losing focus. If anything I would like to have something else than Dr Grimwell - he is really weak and/or overcosted, but it's the extra 4" (and a walk to boot!) that makes me just pay whatever he costs.

 

General strategy is to turn one blast three times into your enemy, then repeat top turn 2 as you are almost sure to win initiative. If you didn't do enough damage by then, its very hard to get back into it. But Sonnia can be quite sturdy, so its not all this one trick and lose if your opponent still has something. I discovered that flame wall is insanely powerful, and it makes that Sonnia and this list is actually pretty versatile; either theres not enough terrain/blocking stuff and you can win on blasting your opponent, or theres a lot, and you can seal the deal with good placed flame walls.

Some things I tried/found out:

  • There's no deployment where you can't make your opponent on turn one with 3 shots. had a corner deployment where I even had pushes left! Investigator OP!
  • You can setup the entire thing on actiavtion 2 on turn 1. At first I wanted to out-activate my opponent, or at least see what he was up to, I ended up regretting that mostly compared to the few games where I just burned down everything on activation 2. Your opponent is likely to give you initiative first turn, and then he has one move before his too clustered deployment messes him up.
  • If you can - and mostly in hindsight it was possible - try to have a push or something to pull Sonnia a bit back after she has blasted in the turn. This can help a lot.
  • Your opponent's best chance is to take out Sonnia after the second wave of blasts, without too many losses. Every game where Sonnia wasnt pressured a lot I could win, and the games where I lost there where opportunities that I gave away and my opponent capitulated.
  • Playing Sonnia is fun against Nicodem :):):)
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13 minutes ago, ttsgosadow said:

Thanks for the kind words, but I must admit this list is heavily inspired by Duncan Blitz. He ran Sonnia very succesfully in Nova, if I recall, some time ago and this list has been pieced together based upon different facebook threads with lots of discussion about the ideal list.

I have played against Duncan playing Sonnia. It was a team tournament so his list was slightly different, but not much at all. His brother Dean was playing Hoffman and they power looped in a metal gamin to bring Sonnia up to an insane Ca 10 for her attack. Hoffman also made her a construct for giving fast/machine puppet shenanigans. Beyond that, they brought a Monster Hunter and a Queller for supression markers. 

Granted teaming up with Hoffman made her considerably stronger, but they did manage to completely table my 70ss Raspy/Sandeep team by early turn 2. Rasputina never even got an activation 😶

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On 5/15/2018 at 2:23 PM, 4thstringer said:

So can we get games recaps?

Lets see if I can remember properly ;)

Game 1: vs Reva
Didnt really blast too much, and was just figuring out how the crew worked. My opponent did a ballsy move to hit Sonnia on a charge turn 1 and killed her. I tried to hide Sonnia with her last AP, but didnt work out the ranges from Reva right. This became a theme where I tried to gouge the return strike from my opponents crews all tournament. Overextended Francisco to kill Reva, but lost too much oomph to win. Actually a game I was about to lose, but given ply and that I could get it on both my last models prevented my opponent from winning the game. Draw!

Game 2: vs Yan Lo
I played a lot of Yan Lo not too long ago, so knew what to hit. Everything was hidden really well. The Emmisary I could hit with a stone for plus flip. Then add tome for a burning, and as you can shoot three times of him (htk ftw) I blasted away quite some of his crew. Turn two almost everybody else went down. Yan Lo lived, but given the insane mobility with the investigator I could catch him with Francisco.
For this game my opponent hampered himself too much trying to place everything so that a blast cannot hit more than one model. I think if your opponent does that he is fighting a downhill battle from the start.

Game 3: vs Nicodem (Travis list)
Not seen this variant before. With all the pushes I could draw a bead somewhere in the crew, and from turn one half the crew was in shambles. Sure he draws lots of cards, but nothing can make me miss a Ca 9 shot. I was afraid of him summoning and overwhelming me all game, but he couldn't recover from turn 1. Not much to say - he tried to wall himself off, and almost did that. But the tiniest gap, and then the entire crew clumped up, meant lots of burning meat :)

Game 4: vs Nicodem (Jamie list)
Sadly paired against a fellow dutchman. I feel this list is better, but that's a dicussion for another time. My opponent kept Nicodem away form me behind a big rocky wall. I could only see HtW models (Mortimer popped mlh turn one). But he spent his high cards summoning, and a ca 9 + 13 was enough for blasts with burning on Mortimer, so I could continue shooting away that side. But the flame walls here decided the battle. Blocking LoS between Nico and the corpses/undead meant he had a hard time replenishing losses and didnt get the plus flips where it mattered. Three turns in a row I killed everything he summoned (and some on the side). And the bits of damage he did werent enough to keep Sonnia away. The effigy being the hero there. Tough battle, but after turn 3 I just mopped up everything.

<intermezzo, 4 games against rezzers day 1. The faction I played the most, so that certainly helped! Had a lot of Vodka in the evening, hehe>

Game 5: vs Shen Long
Never played against Shen Long. Was a nice game, where I failed to kill Yasanori in the first two turns. I was a bit overzealous with my focus for dg, thus only just not killing him (miscalced my dg potential because of the armor). Shen was very versatile and able to fill in the role of beater once yas was gone, and the combined pressure made Sonnia fall over. In hindsight I should have focussed more on yas with the rest of my crew, instead of chipping away somewhere else too quick in advance. Also my opponent handling Shen as good, and making the right calls made that he got in the charge/blast/conditions/whatever he does to slay Francisco AND Sonnia in one activation of Shen. Revenge for his brother as well ;)

Game 6: vs Lilith
Here I feel I made a big mistake. First turn I took down the sniper with 2 of the 3 changelings and Iggy. I really needed them down. Gave away take one for the team, which I might have been able to avoid if I wanst so burned upon killing everything. But the big mistake was forgetting about my malifaux child, and thus doing some silly action with another model instead of walling Sonnia off from the countercharge from Lilith. Even then I could have kept her away enough, but my brain was fried. Well played by my opponent - Lilith is really strong!

 

Overall I feel that I could've won more games if I knew the crew better. Saw no pool where I couldn't wield her. Really wonder how she goes against other opponents. I really hated armour, for example, because the blast does almost no dg with that. So for example Sandeep I have no idea if it works.
Sonnia is quite sturdy, with Df 7 Wp9 and soulstones to survive any retaliation on turn 1 I've seen. So I could always get 6 shots in, which in most cases meant I would win the game if Sonnia was still alive turn 3.

 

No idea how usefull this write-up is. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask!

Sadly I havnt ran her since. The Malifaux community is really small in Holland; and I can't run this against my friends, as I will lose them!

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1 hour ago, ttsgosadow said:

The list indeed almost solely supports Sonnia. I feel there is literally no swap you can make in the list without losing focus. If anything I would like to have something else than Dr Grimwell - he is really weak and/or overcosted, but it's the extra 4" (and a walk to boot!) that makes me just pay whatever he costs.

 

Can Grimwell be changed for other models that can push like Mr Queeg? I don't own him and have a match this Saturday in which I would love to use this list.

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45 minutes ago, longfanz said:

Can Grimwell be changed for other models that can push like Mr Queeg? I don't own him and have a match this Saturday in which I would love to use this list.

You should try Grimwell, he’s a little expensive, but he’s pretty good. With all the focus on Sonnia and Frank he’ll be ignored, and once he gets them into position, he is incredibly mobile, allowing him to kill scheme runners and complete schemes himself. Nimble is probably one of the more under-appreciated abilities in the game, but getting a free walk and then a long charge catches so many opponents off guard. 

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Grimmwells biggest advantage in a Sonnia list is that he can walk with nimble, drop a marker to push her 3" with the help of an Investigator, let her move 4" more by discarding a card for his 1ap action - what`s following after that 7" move possibly around a corner is Sonnia chain activating thanks to her new upgrade^^

 

Nobody else can do that because Grimmwell is the only Witch hunter here ;)

 

 

Editet after a brainfart, thanks @skoatz for pointing that out :)

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29 minutes ago, Tris said:

Grimmwells biggest advantage in a Sonnia list is that he can walk with nimble, drop a marker to push her 3" with the help of an Investigator, let her move 4" more by discarding a card for his 1ap action and he still has an ap left - what`s following after that 7" move possibly around a corner is Sonnia chain activating thanks to her new upgrade^^

 

Nobody else can do that because Grimmwell is the only Witch hunter here ;)

I think I'm missing something here.  Grimwell walks with nimble AP, drops a marker for the Investigator push for 1 AP, and then discards a card for his 1 AP action.  Where is the other AP coming from?  Fast?

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8 minutes ago, skoatz said:

I think I'm missing something here.  Grimwell walks with nimble AP, drops a marker for the Investigator push for 1 AP, and then discards a card for his 1 AP action.  Where is the other AP coming from?  Fast?

Sorry, miscounted here in a haste, you`re absolutely right - he can "only" walk, drop the marker and push, with a chain activation following, of course :)

 

Thank you for pointing that out^^

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57 minutes ago, Tris said:

Grimmwells biggest advantage in a Sonnia list is that he can walk with nimble, drop a marker to push her 3" with the help of an Investigator, let her move 4" more by discarding a card for his 1ap action - what`s following after that 7" move possibly around a corner is Sonnia chain activating thanks to her new upgrade^^

 

Nobody else can do that because Grimmwell is the only Witch hunter here ;)

 

 

Editet after a brainfart, thanks @skoatz for pointing that out :)

This feels more reliable than my previous way of shooting her forward (heartsbanes trigger).  I'll have to try it.  It will hopefully really turn on my Melee Sonnia builds :-)

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2 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

This feels more reliable than my previous way of shooting her forward (heartsbanes trigger).  I'll have to try it.  It will hopefully really turn on my Melee Sonnia builds 🙂

oh yeah, I really hate Heartsbanes trigger on an enforcer  - although she shares the possible chain activation with Grimmwell :)

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It's insane how much mobility this crew makes with the pushes from the investigator and Grimwell. Chain activation makes it fast to react as well. With this setup there's nowhere on the board you can hide (bar hiding models in such a way that they wont impact the game in the first place). The trick to making it even better is not just to push Sonnia forward and hit a semi-clumped up part of your enemies crew, but to have some pushes/things available after that to get her into relative safety. 

Would really love other peoples experiences on that, as well on the first turn can be played: wait out your opponents moves so you might need less pushes on Sonnia and can anticipate, or just grab initiative first turn, and try to blast their crew before they could get in better positions?

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I remember hearing on a Flippin wyrds episode that Matt was running a Sanctioned spellcaster with a bunch of our really good henchmen in Nellie.  It made me so happy, as I have run that turret before, but I hadn't heard of anyone else running that.

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