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Sandeep: Considerations for Errata

How Would You Like Sandeep Errata'd?  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. Choose as many as you'd like, how would you do the errata:

    • Reduce Beacon's range
      12
    • Increase Beacon's Ca penalty
      20
    • Increase Beacon's Ca penalty by more, but also increase Sandeep's base Ca's
      4
    • Limit who has access to Beacon
      9
    • Increase his actions' TN's
      9
    • Reduce his Wds
      5
    • Reduce his Soulstone cache
      30
    • Replace Student of All
      11
    • Replace Impossible to Wound
      16
    • Give Arcane Storm a [Projectile]
      31
    • Remove Arcane Storm's Mantra of Unraveling trigger (the +'s one)
      9
    • Replace The Path to Salvation (the place one)
      1
    • Replace As Your Deed, So Your Destiny (the interact one)
      3
    • Nothing, he doesn't need a nerf.
      13


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Hey all, so as I'm sure some of you have seen there are threads popping up all over on Sandeep: how to fix him, how to beat him, why is he winning, etc.  However, it doesn't take long for those threads to devolve into arguments, so I was wanting to pull some thoughts aside, ask that people think about them and share their own, but most importantly keep things civil (I'm sick of reading 6+ pages of bickering for the few suggestions on fixes hidden in them).

Just to remind you all what it is we're talking about here, this is Sandeep's card (as per Wyrd's site):

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For my own critique I'm going to be essentially ignoring his upgrades, since I haven't heard anyone complaining about them at all (when's the last time someone even mentioned he has a 0 to make Howard Langston Incorporeal from infinite range?) and there's already plenty to discuss here.

When I hear criticisms about Sandeep, it comes in the following flavours:

  • He makes his crew too good and/or flexible (Beacon + his Actions)
  • He has too much AP (Student of All and Beacon, kind of)
  • He's too tanky (ItW, Arcane Shield, and Healing Mantra trigger)
  • He has too much in his kit (his Tactical Actions)

There have been some legitimate criticisms towards any one of these, let's go through it all.

FLEXIBILITY

  • I'll be giving suggestions for both minor and significant nerfs, just to show off what could happen here.  Just looking at Beacon, there are already three things we could do to weaken Sandeep: lower Beacon's potential range (say, 10" or even 8"), increase the Ca reduction (-2 is a common suggestion, could even be -3), and lastly we could restrict who has access to Beacon (could make it only available  to Academics and Gamin, and/or only Minions).
  • Starting from the top, reducing the range on Beacon would restrict his playstyle, but I don't think it would answer any of the criticisms he faces, so unless it's a minor nerf (10") I'd skip this.
  • The second is a legitimate choice - most other "borrowing" abilities have a much higher penalty than what Sandeep provides.  Hell, he could even get a bit of a buff here if we were feeling spicy, in increasing them all to Ca 7 but have Beacon at -3 (so a +1 to Sandeep and -1 to the rest, from current).  I think an alternative to this is increasing his TN's, instead.  IMO one of the biggest problems with Sandeep is just how easy all of his Beaconable abilities are to use.
  • The third option could help in focusing exactly who can Beacon in the first place.  The benefits to this is that there is far more control over *who* your opponent needs to think about.

SO MUCH AP

  • I hear this one a bit, but when you actually look at it Sandeep gets 4 AP and a 0 each turn, not exactly a ton when we look at other Masters in-faction like Raspy, Ironsides, and Mei Feng who can each get 6+ actions in an activation.  This extra AP also only occurs if someone successfully Beacons an ability (fairly simple, as mentioned above) with a :tome and if he discards a card.
  • So, I don't see how we could possibly do anything to "fix" Student of All except by flat out replacing it with something else.  However, nerfing Beacon inherently nerfs Student of All as well, so that might just take care of itself.

TANKINESS

  • Let's be blunt here, one of the Arcanists' big selling point is tankiness.  When you play against Arcanists, you're probably taking some anti-Armor (or anti-triggers if you're expecting Colette).
  • I think the big complaint here isn't that he's tanky, but that he's a kind of tankiness that 1) has little-to-no counterplay, and 2) is nothing like the rest of the faction's tankiness.  So, what would I do here if I had to change something?  Just change ItW to HtW.  This would only really affect models that get access to positives to damage or ignore HtW, but it does fix the counterplay issue.
  • Arcane Shield and his stats aren't exactly blowing people's mind on their own, I don't think either of those need any looking at (except maaaaybe reducing his Wds slightly).

ACTIONS

  • And here I think is the crux of the issue.  Sandeep has a good, Cover-ignoring attack, a pull with a heal trigger, a moderate range place, and an interact with optional Don't Mind Me-like trigger.  The fact that his crew can only borrow one of those once doesn't seem to be seen as a problem so much as that there is just SO much he gives out.  So, the obvious choice here is nix one of his abilities.  I'm against this, but... I also get what they're getting at.  One of the Tactical Actions would be the obvious ones to change I'd say, but I don't have the first clue what they should be changed to.  We could just move one of his abilities off of one of his upgrades and onto his card, but this would be a resounding weakening of his kit no matter what gets cut.

Okay, so let's take a look at an overview of what we could do:

  • Reduce Beacon's range (8/10")
  • Increase Beacon's Ca penalty (-2/3)
  • Restrict who can use Beacon (Academics/Gamin/Minions)
  • Increase the TN's of his actions (+1/2)
  • Replace Student of All (with... something)
  • Reduce Wd (-2)
  • Replace Impossible to Wound (with Hard to Wound?)
  • Remove/replace a tactical action (with... something)

I sure as hell don't think even half of these should actually get used, picking a few of these are legitimate options.  Personally, I think restricting who can use Beacon and/or increasing the TN's, and replacing Student of All would be the best ways to do this.  You'd have less models you need to keep track of for Beacon (and less reliability on it working) and you'd get less AP on Sandeep, both of which I think are the real core issues people have with this Master.

So what do you all think?  Do you think something else should get changed, or do you think something else is the issue?  Let's talk this out and see how we're all feeling on this.

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Responding in no particular order.

If you limit Beacon to just Academics and Gamin then you make the Mages even more of an auto-take for Sandeep crews then the already are. Even if something was done to make taking something like 2 Gunsmiths instead of 3 Mages a viable choice, being able to Beacon is a huge plus for bringing the Mages.

If you want to make Beacon actions harder for the models borrowing them to pull off raise the penalty to Ca instead of raising the TNs. Raising the TN also makes it harder for Sandeep to use his own actions. 

I’m not sure what you mean by “less models you need to keep track of for Beacon”. It’s the actions that need tracking, not the models.

If he does catch nerfs, it might be cool if A Moment of Weakness gets an errata to essentially give you a pre-nerf Sandeep. That upgrade needs a lot of help.

I’d almost be willing to bet that if Arcane Storm got a :ranged and Beacon got an 8 inch range instead of 12 that that would be enough of a nerf to knock Sandeep down a few pegs.

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I do not know if I’d want ALL of these changes to his card, but here are some ideas I have thought about.  As far as I know, I am (currently) the only person to play Sandeep in our local meta, so I somehow always find myself getting caught up in these discussions.  😜

 

-Replace Impossible to Wound with Concentrated Shielding.  (Just like on the Thallarian Queller, you can discard a card to keep Arcane Shield up after his activation)

-Remove Student of All.  Or at least, how about making it grant Fast instead of an out-of-activation AP?  It would give a similar effect, but would be more predictable and contained (and thus managable for the opponent).  I hear complaints about how Sandeep is incredibly reactive and hard to predict/counterplay.  Having an out-of-activation Master AP which you can use at almost any time probably doesn’t help with that.

-Change Beacon to Academic/Minion only.  Maybe include Gamin as well, for the sake of Kandara and future-proofing.  This would cut down on his dizzying amount of tactical angles without breaking his core gameplay.

-Reduce his soulstone cache to 2, or at least 3.  This could also help clip his wings a bit without throwing his gameplay totally out of whack by more drastic changes.  Personally, my Sandeep games have always left me hungry for suits, so I tend to allocate him more soulstones than I would my other masters.

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`Personaly if we talk to nerf Sandeep and it will happen i would offer to change two things 

1) Remove Mantra of Unraveling trigger - without it its totaly OK attack. There is not need to nerf damage/range/make it projectile or put TN on it.

2) Change the wording of Beacon to - *Gamin models summoned by Sandeep Desai within 12'' and LOS may take ......*
 2.1) or - * Gamin models in this crew within 12'' and LOS may take ....*

 

 

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10 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I’m not sure what you mean by “less models you need to keep track of for Beacon”. It’s the actions that need tracking, not the models.

A complaint I've heard from my own LGS is that basically every angle has to be considered: anyone from Howard to that Gamin can basically get Don't Mind Me, and the push angles from The Mind Among the Senses can be a bit hard to keep track of.  I don't know of any ways to restrict the number of actions without flat out removing them, so I figured restricting who can do them is the next best thing.  I do agree Ox Mages are a problem, but I'm kind of hoping they get their own nerfs at the same time (I've mentioned elsewhere I think Temp Shielding should be Rare 1, give the -1 cost once [so 17ss for 3], and let it be discarded for damage reduction by any of them but only once ever).

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Why propose nerf for Sandeep? i've tried play him and he have a tons of tn, and on top of that, i.e. apart.. arcanists don't have many tricks for drawing cards..
I'm not saying, that should not be nerfed..
But don't seems to me that Sandeep wins all tournaments..isn't it?

 

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2 hours ago, retnab said:

A complaint I've heard from my own LGS is that basically every angle has to be considered: anyone from Howard to that Gamin can basically get Don't Mind Me, and the push angles from The Mind Among the Senses can be a bit hard to keep track of.  I don't know of any ways to restrict the number of actions without flat out removing them, so I figured restricting who can do them is the next best thing.  I do agree Ox Mages are a problem, but I'm kind of hoping they get their own nerfs at the same time (I've mentioned elsewhere I think Temp Shielding should be Rare 1, give the -1 cost once [so 17ss for 3], and let it be discarded for damage reduction by any of them but only once ever).

The nerfs to Oxfordian Mages could make the trio a worse choice than a pair of Gunsmiths or Acolytes in most crews and they still might be the go to model in Sandeep crews if they were the only ones that could use Beacon.

Limiting Beacon to just Gamin and Academics is also probably not going to have much of an impact on the table. The models in what they are reporting as almost a fixed list amongst Sandeep players that would be unable to use beacon are almost always going to be choosing to use their own actions instead of using an action through Beacon.

The impact of the suggested change is going to be almost completely felt in crew building. Either models will be able to use Beacon, have actions that they’d rather use than Beacon, or get left in the case.

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14 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I’d almost be willing to bet that if Arcane Storm got a :ranged and Beacon got an 8 inch range instead of 12 that that would be enough of a nerf to knock Sandeep down a few pegs.

I see you liked my suggestion from the other discussion about adding the :ToS-Range: to the Arcane Storm ability. lol.

I honestly do believe adding this and increasing the TN's on his base card by one or two could make a huge difference.  It would allow for the opponent to at least try some counter-play with using cover and requiring at least a 7+ on Beacon'd abilities would make a decent change in how cards are used by the Sandeep player. 

For survivablity, Sandeep can still go down to sustained assault from a heavy beater and forcing him to use his soulstones extremely limits his summoning and what-not.  

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My preferred considerations in no particular order:

  • Increase Beacon penalty to -2.
  • Restrict Beacon to Academics, Gamen, and Minions. Id greatly like Beacon to use some sort of Conditions or Upgrades or something that others uses to track this sort of thing (Collodi and conditions, McCabe and Upgrades) but I'll concede to balance being more important. Hopefully in the future abilities like this can be more easily tracked using existing game state things like conditions and upgrades. 
  • Reduce cache by 2.
  • Remove Student of All or require a soulstone to be discarded for it to be used. Perhaps have it only trigger when an action is used via Beacon targeting an enemy model: that in conjunction with other changes would seem alright.
  • Add :ToS-Range: to Arcane Storm.

I also really like @joediamond's suggestion about replacing impossible to wound with concentrated shielding. Good discussion points and good summary, @retnab.

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46 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

I see you liked my suggestion from the other discussion about adding the :ToS-Range: to the Arcane Storm ability. lol.

I honestly do believe adding this and increasing the TN's on his base card by one or two could make a huge difference.  It would allow for the opponent to at least try some counter-play with using cover and requiring at least a 7+ on Beacon'd abilities would make a decent change in how cards are used by the Sandeep player. 

For survivablity, Sandeep can still go down to sustained assault from a heavy beater and forcing him to use his soulstones extremely limits his summoning and what-not.  

Of everything I’ve seen suggested adding the  :ranged to Arcane Storm seems like the most straight forward thing to do and the most likely to have the intended effect dialing down the power and flexibility of a Sandeep crew without really changing the way the crew plays over all. 

In general, I think that probably a few other attacks thoughout the game ( Collodi’s for example) that could stand to get a :ranged added to them. I think it would be good for the game as a whole. 

Sandeep has a few tools that will help to mitigate the disadvantages from the :ranged but now he’s spending resources or playing around needing to be in position to have a good shot.

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37 minutes ago, necroon said:

Restrict Beacon to Academics, Gamen, and Minions.

I fail to see what this would really accomplish. The crews that Sandeep typically brings aren’t really going to be impacted by this much in practice. Thinking back to games I’ve played, it’s rare that I have a model that isn’t a minion, Academic, or Gamin use a Beacon ability. 

The real effect that I think it will have is that it eliminate some models from consideration in a Sandeep crew during crew building. One of the common complaints I see about Sandeep is that he always brings more or less the same crew. This change might make that worse.

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31 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I fail to see what this would really accomplish. The crews that Sandeep typically brings aren’t really going to be impacted by this much in practice. Thinking back to games I’ve played, it’s rare that I have a model that isn’t a minion, Academic, or Gamin use a Beacon ability. 

The real effect that I think it will have is that it eliminate some models from consideration in a Sandeep crew during crew building. One of the common complaints I see about Sandeep is that he always brings more or less the same crew. This change might make that worse.

 

6 hours ago, retnab said:

A complaint I've heard from my own LGS is that basically every angle has to be considered: anyone from Howard to that Gamin can basically get Don't Mind Me, and the push angles from The Mind Among the Senses can be a bit hard to keep track of.  I don't know of any ways to restrict the number of actions without flat out removing them, so I figured restricting who can do them is the next best thing.  I do agree Ox Mages are a problem, but I'm kind of hoping they get their own nerfs at the same time (I've mentioned elsewhere I think Temp Shielding should be Rare 1, give the -1 cost once [so 17ss for 3], and let it be discarded for damage reduction by any of them but only once ever).

This explains it just fine so I'll just paste it here. I see plenty of Howard and Joss with Sandeep. This is a change that should be accompanied by other changes. Beacon (and other abilities or actions) being restricted by characteristic and/or station just seems good for game health and Minion would allow him to benefit from other/future models without specifically neutering his available hiring pools.

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17 minutes ago, necroon said:

 

This explains it just fine so I'll just paste it here. I see plenty of Howard and Joss with Sandeep. This is a change that should be accompanied by other changes. Beacon (and other abilities or actions) being restricted by characteristic and/or station just seems good for game health and Minion would allow him to benefit from other/future models without specifically neutering his available hiring pools.

Joss, Howard, Myranda; those models typically aren’t using Sandeep’s actions through Beacon. It happens but it’s pretty rare. You’ve maybe gone from having to worry about 8 models using an ability through Beacon to 6 models doing it. That isn’t going to change the perception or the complaints that Sandeep’s crew is unpredictable.

That unpredicatibility is part of what Sandeep does. Doing away with it because people complain about it would be like gutting the Viks’ alpha strike or McMourning’s crews ability to deal out huge damage from spreading poison around.

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5 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

That unpredicatibility is part of what Sandeep does. Doing away with it because people complain about it would be like gutting the Viks’ alpha strike or McMourning’s crews ability to deal out huge damage from spreading poison around.

Or like how Collodi is Puppets / minions or Lucius is Guardsman/Mimics / minions. (Keyword) and (Station) limitations are hardly uncommon or unheard of.

1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

I fail to see what this would really accomplish. The crews that Sandeep typically brings aren’t really going to be impacted by this much in practice. Thinking back to games I’ve played, it’s rare that I have a model that isn’t a minion, Academic, or Gamin use a Beacon ability. 

So then what's the point of arguing against it?

 

5 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Joss, Howard, Myranda; those models typically aren’t using Sandeep’s action through Beacon. It happens but it’s pretty rare. You’ve maybe gone from having to worry about 8 models using an ability through Beacon to 6 models doing it. That isn’t going to change the perception or the complaints that Sandeep’s crew is unpredictable.

But you said it won't change him being unpredictable. I quite literally don't understand how to separate these points from one another. I'm not trying to be difficult here but I don't understand what you are trying to express to me and I don't agree with what you are equating. I'll leave it at that as I'd rather not argue and don't really feel like much will come of our back and forth judging from past interactions other then "we clearly don't agree". 

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1 minute ago, necroon said:

Or like how Collodi is Puppets / minions or Lucius is Guardsman/Mimics / minions. (Keyword) and (Station) limitations are hardly uncommon or unheard of.

So then what's the point of arguing against it?

 

But you said it won't change him being unpredictable. I quite literally don't understand how to separate these points from one another. I'm not trying to be difficult here but I don't understand what you are trying to express to me and I don't agree with what you are equating. I'll leave it at that as I'd rather not argue and don't really feel like much will come of our back and forth judging from past interactions other then "we clearly don't agree". 

 

I’m against it because I’m against making changes just for the sake of making changes. That is what this sort of change appears to be to be. 

If the intent of the change is to appease the people that are complaining that Sandeep is too unpredictable because of Beacon it’s going to fail to do that. The models that make up the bulk of his crew will still be able to use Beacon actions, the ones that can’t use them weren’t likely to use them anyways. 

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1 minute ago, WWHSD said:

I’m against it because I’m against making changes just for the sake of making changes. That is what this sort of change appears to be to be. 

 

6 hours ago, retnab said:

A complaint I've heard from my own LGS is that basically every angle has to be considered: anyone from Howard to that Gamin can basically get Don't Mind Me, and the push angles from The Mind Among the Senses can be a bit hard to keep track of.  I don't know of any ways to restrict the number of actions without flat out removing them, so I figured restricting who can do them is the next best thing.

Again: I will just repeat this because I agree with it.

This is/was the goal of that recommended statement. The goal was not because I like adding text to cards for no reason it was because the pool of "all the models" that can use beacon should perhaps not consist of "All the models". Your welcome to not have this opinion I am, however, done defending my opinion from you as I feel like I have made my points clearly enough and would rather not continue to do so as the discussion has become cyclical.

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37 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Joss, Howard, Myranda; those models typically aren’t using Sandeep’s actions through Beacon. It happens but it’s pretty rare. You’ve maybe gone from having to worry about 8 models using an ability through Beacon to 6 models doing it. That isn’t going to change the perception or the complaints that Sandeep’s crew is unpredictable.

Personally in my games I regularly use Howard or Joss and Tutored as a constant threat in my game, because my opponent knows I can always make them into an Academic and suddenly they need to keep that extra 6" place into consideration with their threat ranges.  It works a lot of the time, because Howard moving 11" (16" if you spend IE) before charging is hard to stop.

I've put in a poll from my own suggestions and others listed here, I'm curious to see how many people match up on certain things they'd like changed.

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30 minutes ago, retnab said:

Personally in my games I regularly use Howard or Joss and Tutored as a constant threat in my game, because my opponent knows I can always make them into an Academic and suddenly they need to keep that extra 6" place into consideration with their threat ranges.  It works a lot of the time, because Howard moving 11" (16" if you spend IE) before charging is hard to stop.

I've put in a poll from my own suggestions and others listed here, I'm curious to see how many people match up on certain things they'd like changed.

The 6 inch place is the one action that I can see Joss and Howard regularly wanting to use. There are already restrictions in place to keep them from using it. Tutored gives you a way to work around that. 

Restricting Beacon to Academics, Gamin, and Minions wouldn’t stop you from doing what you’re doing now. Your opponents are still going to have the same complaints because you’re going to keep making the very scholarly Howard Langston teleport on top of them and blend them up.

You should probably add a “I don’t really think Sandeep needs a nerf” choice to your poll.

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I'm gonna try to keep it short and sweet.

I back my thoughts up as the UK meta's #2 ranked player (behind Jamie Varney & his Nicodem) and best in faction Arcanist for around the past 20 months (though others have held it briefly during this time). I nearly always run Sandeep when playing Arcanists competitively. I genuinely believe he is the best option in every situation (except possibly public ex, raspy).

 

I have had a few ideas for a while but not really found the forum to air them. I think these small changes would bring him into line in a fairer way, though it may need some playtesting

 

I think arcane storm needs a projectile this seems to be the big one... 2/4/5 CA dmg that doesn't randomise and ignores cover is ridiculous and too aggressive. Alternatively change to 2/3/4 dmg.

Beacon could be once per activation.

Beacon should accessible by academics and gamin only.

 

Beacon should also raise the target number of actions to by 1. This will put it akin to master obeys needing a 7 to succeed. You could even push the TN up by 2 or 3 so an 8 or 9 is needed to succeed. Copying a masters action should be difficult to do. This won't make arcane storm and Mind among the senses  "uncopyable " against opponents as the CA is the same but reduces the number of cards the crew has access to to succeed with the copying. 

 

I would like to hear anyone else's thoughts. I think the number one complaint I hear about Sandeep is that he can always react to whatever situation he is put in and everything in the crew is doing whatever is needed at exactly the right time. From my experience, making beacon harder to achieve will go someway to finding a sensible balance.

 

 

EDIT: Oxfordian Mages also need to return to 6SS, but should keep the reduction part of temporal shield.

 

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18 minutes ago, Hollingydale said:

I'm gonna try to keep it short and sweet.

I back my thoughts up as the UK meta's #2 ranked player (behind Jamie Varney & his Nicodem) and best in faction Arcanist for around the past 20 months (though others have held it briefly during this time). I nearly always run Sandeep when playing Arcanists competitively. I genuinely believe he is the best option in every situation (except possibly public ex, raspy).

 

I have had a few ideas for a while but not really found the forum to air them. I think these small changes would bring him into line in a fairer way, though it may need some playtesting

 

I think arcane storm needs a projectile this seems to be the big one... 2/4/5 CA dmg that doesn't randomise and ignores cover is ridiculous and too aggressive. Alternatively change to 2/3/4 dmg.

Beacon could be once per activation.

Beacon should accessible by academics and gamin only.

 

Beacon should also raise the target number of actions to by 1. This will put it akin to master obeys needing a 7 to succeed. You could even push the TN up by 2 or 3 so an 8 or 9 is needed to succeed. Copying a masters action should be difficult to do. This won't make arcane storm and Mind among the senses  "uncopyable " against opponents as the CA is the same but reduces the number of cards the crew has access to to succeed with the copying. 

 

I would like to hear anyone else's thoughts. I think the number one complaint I hear about Sandeep is that he can always react to whatever situation he is put in and everything in the crew is doing whatever is needed at exactly the right time. From my experience, making beacon harder to achieve will go someway to finding a sensible balance.

 

 

 

I think that the whole “copying a masters action should be hard to achieve” is kind of built in with Sandeep. Overall, his actions don’t tend to be as powerful as those of other masters. It’s the ability for his crew to use those actions that make them powerful.

I do think a lot of the ranged attacks in the game that aren’t projectile attacks could stand to be made into projectile attacks. I do feeling that if that was done to Arcane Storm it would have a much bigger impact to Sandeep’s performance than it would seem at first. Sandeep and his crew will be spending more AP to get into position for good shots and doing other things to mitigate the negatives of Arcane Storm being a projectile attack.

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21 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

 

I think that the whole “copying a masters action should be hard to achieve” is kind of built in with Sandeep. Overall, his actions don’t tend to be as powerful as those of other masters. It’s the ability for his crew to use those actions that make them powerful.

I do think a lot of the ranged attacks in the game that aren’t projectile attacks could stand to be made into projectile attacks. I do feeling that if that was done to Arcane Storm it would have a much bigger impact to Sandeep’s performance than it would seem at first. Sandeep and his crew will be spending more AP to get into position for good shots and doing other things to mitigate the negatives of Arcane Storm being a projectile attack.

If you are saying beacon is fine, I just plain disagree. 

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11 minutes ago, Hollingydale said:

If you are saying beacon is fine, I just plain disagree. 

Nerfing Beacon in any meaningful way combined with making Arcane Storm a projectile attack would amount to a huge nerf to Sandeep. Far above what would be needed to bring him in line with the other top Arcanist masters.

I suspect that Arcane Storm not being a projectile attack is a much bigger deal than most people think.

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20 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Nerfing Beacon in any meaningful way combined with making Arcane Storm a projectile attack would amount to a huge nerf to Sandeep. Far above what would be needed to bring him in line with the other top Arcanist masters.

I suspect that Arcane Storm not being a projectile attack is a much bigger deal than most people think.

Nah this is just not true. 

If a player is reliant on arcane storm to make the game a success then they will just need to adapt their play style, which should be easy enough. Perhaps using commands to get +ve to attacks, perhaps using sandeeps long forgotten Gada, perhaps not using it at all and using sandeep for other things just as moving models or summoning. Or maybe just targeting models out in the open.

The biggest and most broken power is the beacon and that needs looking at. It should still exist but not in its current state. 

 

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I wonder if Beacon requiring a discard to use could help tone it down a bit?

 

And I agree with @Hollingydale that Ox Mages should be put back to 6ss while keeping the damage reduction on the upgrade.

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