M2e Colette

[MR TORGUE]

I like the idea of Soul Stone manipulation, but at the same time find it rather uncomfortable that it costs Colette 1AP. It costs 1 stone to get the upgrade, so you have to do it once just to break even, at which point it really is an ability that costs 15% of the AP she will have during the game just to get a single extra stone. 

She can do so much more with that AP, and you can get surge on prompt for free basically. Once you factor in dove summoning, I think she's way too limited to also spend AP on stones or cards.  

I would rather use her with recharge soul stone and keep her in the thick of things.

I think it may be dependent of if you have more than one henchman in the crew; If Reckoning is flipped as the strat you can effectively shut down scoring for the opposing crew by taking 4 henchmen; joss, cassandra, captain/merc taelor, snowstorm etc. colette sits at the back with a soulstone miner just farming stones for damage reduction while the opposing crew try to kill 2 models a turn. Trust me its harder than it sounds to kill two henchmen a turn depending on whom they are. 

I suppose this could be a use for the upgrade but i totally see your point as its a huge investment for 1AP and two cards. 

[MR TORGUE]

What do people think about the Shell Game upgrade? Specifically the Surge trigger (the zero action seems rather niche), you will Prompt a lot after all.

Surge is great when it comes up naturally and the zero is prob just a small bonus - if you need to push that dove/mannequin into range for colette's defence trigger or into engagement with another model... extremely dependent on taking the aforementioned models obviously. 

I suppose its worth just playing a few games and seeing where it could be used..or where it would of helped if you had taken it - there's always a moment in games where your like 'If only i had X upgrade at X moment I could of done X'

[Sordid Strumpet]

I like the idea of Soul Stone manipulation, but at the same time find it rather uncomfortable that it costs Colette 1AP. It costs 1 stone to get the upgrade, so you have to do it once just to break even, at which point it really is an ability that costs 15% of the AP she will have during the game just to get a single extra stone. 

She can do so much more with that AP, and you can get surge on prompt for free basically. Once you factor in dove summoning, I think she's way too limited to also spend AP on stones or cards.  

I would rather use her with recharge soul stone and keep her in the thick of things.

I think it may be dependent of if you have more than one henchman in the crew; If Reckoning is flipped as the strat you can effectively shut down scoring for the opposing crew by taking 4 henchmen; joss, cassandra, captain/merc taelor, snowstorm etc. colette sits at the back with a soulstone miner just farming stones for damage reduction while the opposing crew try to kill 2 models a turn. Trust me its harder than it sounds to kill two henchmen a turn depending on whom they are. 

I suppose this could be a use for the upgrade but i totally see your point as its a huge investment for 1AP and two cards. 

But then you have lots of henchmen so you might as well stick recharge soul stone on two of them (Joss and Cassandra maybe?). Same effect, and you can use Colette to prompt and make them kill more things, and get even more soul stones. I'm actually very keen to try that. Could be outrageous!

What do people think about the Shell Game upgrade? Specifically the Surge trigger (the zero action seems rather niche), you will Prompt a lot after all.

It can be very neat to maximise disappearing act. It has a maximum placement of 14" and a summoned dove can go 10" so a 4" push could be handy. If you then teleport in a Coryphee, you can stick something in melee that is 23" away. So basically anywhere. Another Coryphee can then be prompted to push and walk, then dance partner up. Then finish the target of the first Coryphee, reactivate off the prompt trigger, hit something else nearby, push out, dance together and your opponent has to deal with a bloody duet in their deployment zone on turn 1 that still has 2 AP and can self heal. Dirty.

[MR TORGUE]

Completely forgot about that upgrade; good idea! -- Will be giving that a try myself next time i'm running colette. 

I'm always unsure about taking coryphee as their just so fragile/expensive but it would be fun to see a opponents reaction having a duet up in their face at the start of the game.

[Adran]

I've seen some Colette lists prompt 5 times per turn. The trigger then is good. You can always get one card draw with her free stone, and then she ought to get one more from flips. Plus it allows you to change mid level tomes into a different card. 

Surge isn't essential, but it can give you quite a bit of card draw/cycling. 

[entropolous]

I've seen some Colette lists prompt 5 times per turn.

Only five?  Sounds like some people need to be introduced to the Malifaux Child...

That said I think only Colette can take advantage of the surge trigger due to the wording of the upgrade.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Completely forgot about that upgrade; good idea! -- Will be giving that a try myself next time i'm running colette. 

I'm always unsure about taking coryphee as their just so fragile/expensive but it would be fun to see a opponents reaction having a duet up in their face at the start of the game.

It does depend rather a lot on your opponent not figuring out what you're up to (so it'll probably only work once against each opponent). Otherwise it's really easy to stop as Coryphees are fantastically easy to kill with the right tool. Jumping them that close to your opponent in turn one means if the opposing crew has the right model to kill a Coryphee, it's likely it will be able to do so. Assuming terrain goes your way, you can probably do it especially if you are out-activating your opponent. I think it's more of an opportunistic thing to do when you need it - smack a scheme runner, get breakthrough etc. 

I would also probably try to use Practised production on Angelica to get a scheme marker near the Dove so it's harder to remove and you don't have to sacrifice the dove (plus it can then buff whatever you teleport in). Then bring in Cassandra instead of the Duet, she's far more self-sufficient.

 

I've seen some Colette lists prompt 5 times per turn.

Only five?  Sounds like some people need to be introduced to the Malifaux Child...

That said I think only Colette can take advantage of the surge trigger due to the wording of the upgrade.

As far as I can tell the Malifaux Child can use the trigger as the upgrade is worded no differently to any other upgrade that adds triggers, and I'm pretty sure added triggers from upgrades just count as being on the original model's card. Abilities that copy actions which can't declare triggers specifically say so in the ability.

However, the child may only copy an ability once per turn. So 5 is indeed the maximum - unless you understudy to prompt Colette to prompt Cassandra which technically gives you up to five prompts but only four of those really matter - except of course you get the surge trigger. But that would require you to hit 5 out of 8 tomes worth 6 or more which is unlikely to say the least. 

Mind you, taking the MC would mean you can't use Doves, and in a Colette crew there are so many tricky to pull of and yet absolutely awesome combinations that I love the doves to give me activation control. I don't see the extra prompt off a Child which then needs a 9 to cast as terribly useful.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Sordid Strumpet

[4554551//]

So the consensus on the oiran is don't waste your time? 

[Kirby]

So the consensus on the oiran is don't waste your time? 

Yep.  For the stones and opportunity cost to other options, the Oiran stay home.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Which is a shame because I rather liked painting them. I suppose I'll have to buy Misaki now.

Damn you Wyrd

Too many awesome, much bad.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Which is a shame because I rather liked painting them. I suppose I'll have to buy Misaki now.

Damn you Wyrd

Too many awesome, much bad.

Oiran do in fact shine brightest when fighting with Misaki and Yamaziko.  I don't play them primarily for their "Lure" ability, mind you, and only consider it when I happen to have an average crow card (7-10) in my hand.  When I have them, they always come in pairs though, and Yamaziko is always the one with Smoke and Shadows.  

That said, the Performer's "Lure" isn't bad either.  Not as good as the Rotten Belle, but few really are.  You're not getting the WP buff, but being able to make another Showgirl "Fast" when they die (ideally Colette), is a reward in of itself as well.

I've seen some Colette lists prompt 5 times per turn.

Only five?  Sounds like some people need to be introduced to the Malifaux Child...

That said I think only Colette can take advantage of the surge trigger due to the wording of the upgrade.

As far as I can tell the Malifaux Child can use the trigger as the upgrade is worded no differently to any other upgrade that adds triggers, and I'm pretty sure added triggers from upgrades just count as being on the original model's card. Abilities that copy actions which can't declare triggers specifically say so in the ability.

However, the child may only copy an ability once per turn. So 5 is indeed the maximum - unless you understudy to prompt Colette to prompt Cassandra which technically gives you up to five prompts but only four of those really matter - except of course you get the surge trigger. But that would require you to hit 5 out of 8 tomes worth 6 or more which is unlikely to say the least. 

Mind you, taking the MC would mean you can't use Doves, and in a Colette crew there are so many tricky to pull of and yet absolutely awesome combinations that I love the doves to give me activation control. I don't see the extra prompt off a Child which then needs a 9 to cast as terribly useful.

I agree on the Malifaux Child.  The Doves work too well with Colette to give up, IMHO.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Thankfully Oiran do seem great with Last Blossom crews, so I'll be looking forward to getting those eventually.

The great thing about the performer's push is how well it works with Willie and his "set charge" ability. There should be scheme markers everywhere anyway. How much more awesome is it when they all blow up when your opponent gets near them?

Now wouldn't it be even more awesome if you could make your opponent get near your scheme markers?

Plus, Mannequins can help get a scheme marker right where it needs to be, and then a performer can lure your opponent near it and BOOM 2 damage for everyone. Edit - no DF duels, got his abilities mixed up.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Sordid Strumpet

[Bengt]

What defence duels?

[LeperColony]

I would say that Oiran could be situationally useful.  If you expect to face a lot of WP duels, replacing a Performer with an Oiran could be worth it.

 

How do people feel about the Ice Dancer?  I've been looking at her, but she just doesn't seem worth it to me.  Her abilities require suits she doesn't have built in, her attack is mediocre, and her defense ability, though really nice, requires discarding a card.  Maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal in other crews, but I feel in a Colette crew it is.

[Adran]

The Ice dancer is one of the few models in  the game which gets to drop 2 scheme markers a turn. Every turn. She is very fast, and hard to contain. 

i thought her attack was a decent attack for a model in her points cost.

I doubt you will need to use her defence ability very much, but that is because it works by just existing. I'm not going to shoot her if she can just move out of range/line of sight, as I waste 1 AP and let you move. 

[LeperColony]

Colette makes the Interact a (0), and you can't do more than one (0) action per turn.  So in a Colette crew, I thought the Ice Dancer couldn't put down two markers.

Sure, her attack is in line with her cost, but it's no reason to take her.  As for the whole deterrence factor, I feel that's significantly overrated in Malifaux.  If I'm playing against a Colette crew, I want to burn that hand.  If I had an ability on someone that was just (1) Your opponent discards a card, I'd do it.  So I would definitely spend (1) to attack a model that might escape by discarding.

[Shadowfane]

Colette say you *may* take Interact as a (0) action, not that you have to - so you can take it once as a (0) and then, as long as you get far enough away from the Scheme Marker, take it again as a (1)

[Adran]

A large amount of the board is more than 8" from colette. The Ice dancer can walk, interact, and do her (0) for a second scheme marker and then push from taking a walk action Every turn, regardless of any other models. 

 A lot of the time I have some poor cards that I'm happy to discard for effects. And unless my opponent is playing a crew with a large hand destruction possibility, I don't normally find much use for low cards with Colette. (of course if you have soulstone manipulation, then you have another use for them). 

It might be that they don't fit your play style. There is nothing wrong with that. But its a model that can potentially move 16" per turn and drop a scheme marker. Or move 8" and drop 2 scheme markers.  (The silurid can drop 2 scheme markers and move 7", or drop 1 scheme marker and move 12", it it can't place its 2 scheme markers close enough for it to score max points for Protect territory, or in the middle of a large group of enemy models for plant explosives). 

 

 

 

 

[LeperColony]

I certainly don't think she's worthless, but I don't think she's all that useful either.  Like the Oiran, I could see situations where I'd want her, but I wouldn't expect to include one in my core list.  And I don't seem to see them suggested to others as a core component either.

Like I said, a (1) Your Opponent Discards a Card would be an ability I would take, and I think plenty of other people would too, even if it were limit once per activation.  Discard effects, while not common, are also not so rare that you never see them.  And Colette gains a lot of value from low masks.  Which would you keep, a low mask or a high ram? 

If the Ice Dancer's greatest defense is a deterrent to attacking her, what do you do when you're attacked?  Sure, it's better to discard a card than lose a 6ss model, but a lost card for a (1) is not the worst thing in the world for your opponent either.

Edited December 11, 2015 by LeperColony

[Rogue1]

I have found the ice Dancer to be situational with Colette, where she really shines is in a Rasputina crew where she brings fast scheme running to a crew that needs it while still being able to take advantage of her frozen heart synergies.

[angyi]

Another question folks, if you don't mind:

We'll have a small 3-round tournament here just to defuse tensions before Christmas, so the pre-fixed strategies will be Reckoning, Head Hunter and Collect the Bounty. I decided to go with Colette, a master that I haven't played for years, since the previous edition. I've come up with a core list, which is:

Colette 4SS
- Cabaret Coreography
- Shell Game
Cassandra
- Practiced Production
Howard Langston
- Imbued Energies
Joss
- Imbued Energies
Johan
Performer

I might change Johan for an Acolyte (depends on terrain) or a second Performer (particularly for Head Hunter). Or change Joss and 2SS worth of something for Killjoy, if I'm about facing a ranged heavy crew or one with a bunch of support models. But basically that's it.

Would you please point out why this list would miserably fail for the said strategies / vs certain opponents, and how would you fix the flaw? Or, generally speaking, what Colette lists would you prepare for this tournament?

[Sordid Strumpet]

Do you really need that many heavy hitters? Who will do your scheme running?

To face range heavy crews all you need is a dive and Colettes Disappearing act to get Cassandra in there and killing.

You may also struggle keeping Colette alove as your crew won't be placing anywhere near as many markers as the average Showgirl-heavy crew. 

Why not play a quick practise game and see how you go with the crew? They will probably to very well with the Strategies, and if you are lucky with schemes. 

[angyi]

Thanks! 

Do you really need that many heavy hitters? Who will do your scheme running?

I'm expecting Teddies in pairs and Izamu riding a bear, so I'll need some muscle for sure. What do you mean by scheme running? Cassandra, the Performer and the Doves with PP seem to be sufficient to me. How would you include more scheme runners?

You may also struggle keeping Colette alove as your crew won't be placing anywhere near as many markers as the average Showgirl-heavy crew.

Again, how would you include more showgirls? The only viable thing I can imagine is changing Joss and Johan for the Duet and another Performer, but I'd lose so much standing power that way, not to mention condition removal.

Why not play a quick practise game and see how you go with the crew? They will probably to very well with the Strategies, and if you are lucky with schemes. 

Well I had one, that's how I've come up with this list  However this is the "what do you hire" thread, and I'm really interested in Colette crews that you bring to Reckoning and the likes. I understand it's also largely dependent on schemes, but you also need a solid core for the strategy. What's yours?

[Sordid Strumpet]

The questions I asked were to find out your thoughts, not to imply you hadn't thought about the question, if that makes sense  

I must have missed practised production when I read your list. The one problem I see is that for her survival Colette really wants scheme markers around, but yours are in danger of being moved up the field via PP, just something to keep in mind. 

You probably woudln't need more showgirls, just another minion who gets to use Colette's aura for 0-interacts.

I run with Coryphee for hitting power because they have some rather neat synergies with repositioning and scheme marker placement as well as reactivation shenanigans. However it eludes me at the moment if they will count for the strategies you are playing after sacrificing to become a duet.

You're right that you need a lot of hitting power for what you'll face. I'm just womdering if you might be better off with maybe a silent one instead of Johan for healing, for example.

[angyi]

The one problem I see is that for her survival Colette really wants scheme markers around, but yours are in danger of being moved up the field via PP, just something to keep in mind. You probably woudln't need more showgirls, just another minion who gets to use Colette's aura for 0-interacts.

Now that's one good advice, thanks! Which leads us to:

I run with Coryphee for hitting power because they have some rather neat synergies with repositioning and scheme marker placement as well as reactivation shenanigans. However it eludes me at the moment if they will count for the strategies you are playing after sacrificing to become a duet.

Speaking of the Duet: how many hitting power do you think is enough for Reckoning? I mean Prompt makes you want to muster all the expensive models you normally wouldn't consider to hire together. But I understand that reducing Colette to a simple Prompt machine is not necessarily a good idea.

BTW dancing together doesn't give any points to your opponent. It doesn't count in Reckoning and Collect the Bounty, and it doesn't drop Heads in Head Hunter either.

You're right that you need a lot of hitting power for what you'll face. I'm just womdering if you might be better off with maybe a silent one instead of Johan for healing, for example.

It's probably a matter of personal preference, but I value condition removal higher than the once-per-turn 1/2/3 healing spell. Especially if you run a couple of expensive models where 1-2 nasty debuffs can ruin your whole turn.