Disengage vs Horror Duel

[cyenobite]

If a model is engaged with another model that has the Terrifying ability, would they still have to pass a Horror Duel before attempting to disengage? They're trying to walk away (Walk Action), which does not "target" the Terrifying model, yet the disengage is treated like a melee attack, which does target a model.

Thanks!

 

<Edit: I think I just answered my own question... So it seems as though the model attempting to walk away is doing the Walk Action, and it's the OTHER model that then target's the model trying to walk away. So Terrifying would not be an issue when trying to disengage.>

 

Would still appreciate a confirmation on this, that I'm reading it correctly.

[PolishSausage]

You never end a walk action as you never walked in the first place. Not walking is not walking. Terror never triggers as it needs walk action to end (so it must have begun) failing a disengagement cancels the 1 ap spend for a walk

[The Godlyness]

Ring Around the Rosey pocket full of poesys Ashes Ashes we all fall down. 

 

So What is your Stance then on me obeying a model and Taking a Walk action but not Moving the model at all. would it have to take a terror test?

 

Yay Back to the Paradox theory.  its my favorite one so far. You will see where this has been argued up in the thread above. Either we Do it your way and the rules become a paradox or we do it the other way and the rules work. Apparently you guys love paradoxes more than me.

[Fetid Strumpet]

If your argument was correct then as I said all the elements of the FAQ would be exactly the reverse. When a belle Lures you, you move your walk towards her. If you end a move in her melee range she can pounce you. So the way it was understood before the FAQ in many quarters was like last edition. 

 

1) you are moved.

 

2) you move your walk towards the model.

 

3) when you no longer can you stop.

 

4) you end your move.

 

5) Pounce triggers as you ended a move.

 

It didn't matter if you moved at all as you still ended a move. The FAQ has clarified this, and the intent has been consistent throughout the WHOLE of the FAQ. If you don't complete any part of something, it doesn't count as that thing. You must move a little bit in order to end a move. You must cause some amount of dmg above 0 to count as causing dmg. You must be pushed some distance above 0 to count as having been pushed. In your instance you declared a walk action, but the action was canceled by the disengaging strike, the AP was still spent, but you didn't count as having walked, because you never did.

 

And in your obey walk example, no you wouldn't take a terror test. You declared a walk, chose not to move, ended your action, but because you didn't move no terror test would be triggered, and your AP is still spent as you ended an action.

[dgraz]

Ring Around the Rosey pocket full of poesys Ashes Ashes we all fall down. 

There is no paradox. The FAQ clarified it......as Fetid stated. What's the point of an FAQ if you aren't going to use it? I honestly don't understand why you keep saying it's a paradox. It's been clarified.

[Dracomax]

If your argument was correct then as I said all the elements of the FAQ would be exactly the reverse. When a belle Lures you, you move your walk towards her. If you end a move in her melee range she can pounce you. So the way it was understood before the FAQ in many quarters was like last edition. 

 

1) you are moved.

 

2) you move your walk towards the model.

 

3) when you no longer can you stop.

 

4) you end your move.

 

5) Pounce triggers as you ended a move.

 

It didn't matter if you moved at all as you still ended a move. The FAQ has clarified this, and the intent has been consistent throughout the WHOLE of the FAQ. If you don't complete any part of something, it doesn't count as that thing. You must move a little bit in order to end a move. You must cause some amount of dmg above 0 to count as causing dmg. You must be pushed some distance above 0 to count as having been pushed. In your instance you declared a walk action, but the action was canceled by the disengaging strike, the AP was still spent, but you didn't count as having walked, because you never did.

 

And in your obey walk example, no you wouldn't take a terror test. You declared a walk, chose not to move, ended your action, but because you didn't move no terror test would be triggered, and your AP is still spent as you ended an action.

I can agree, reluctantly, with everything except the bolded text. If you choose not to move after declaring the action, I'm not sure you can say that it didn't occur. You can have it fail, but having it not occur seems wrong somehow. an action occured. it just had no effect.

 

It is of course, entirely a moot point, because you can move a fraction of an inch and still be a move.

[The Godlyness]

And in your obey walk example, no you wouldn't take a terror test. You declared a walk, chose not to move, ended your action, but because you didn't move no terror test would be triggered, and your AP is still spent as you ended an action.

 

Let me point a small tency tiny thing out for you:

 

Terrifying (All) 13: Enemy models must pass a TN 13 Horror Duel if they end a Walk Action within this model’s engagement range or target this model with an Action

 

So tell me again how you are wrong

[Soundwave]

I think what The Godlyness is trying to say (please correct me if I'm wrong):

A Walk Action and a Move is not the same thing.

You may spend an AP on a Walk Action and Move 0". You will not count as having moved, but you will still have made a Walk Action.

[Dracomax]

The argument is that since walk actions are a move, and the FAQ specifically says that if you move 0", no move occured, that Wk 0" means that no Wk Occured.

 

Or, to put it simply, all Squares¹ are Rectangles². Alll the rules of Rectangles apply to Squares. Not all Rectangles are Sqaures. Squares have rules that do not apply to Rectangles.

 

In short, Wk actions are a specific type of movement. Therefore, they must follow all the rules of movement. Not all movements are walk actions. Walk actions have additional rules which do not apply to other types of movement.

 

¹Walk actions

 

²Movement actions

[dgraz]

As much as it pains me.....I have to agree with Godlyness on the Obey. The difference there is that you can move as opposed to the disengaging strike where the Walk Action is basically canceled. 

[Soundwave]

The argument is that since walk actions are a move, and the FAQ specifically says that if you move 0", no move occured, that Wk 0" means that no Wk Occured.

 

Walk actions aren't a move though. The Walk action is an action which Moves you your Wk.

 

 

If only someone could listen to us now...

[The Godlyness]

Walk actions aren't a move though. The Walk action is an action which Moves you your Wk.

 

 

If only someone could listen to us now...

up to your WK. i can move zero with my action i am allowed.

[Dracomax]

Walk actions aren't a move though. The Walk action is an action which Moves you your Wk.

 

 

If only someone could listen to us now...

Actually, it is.

Under movement, Wk actions are specifically mentioned in the big rulebook. They are not listening, because you are not correct.

[The Godlyness]

So are you saying i CANNOT declare a walk action and move zero? i must move something?

 

Again Ring around the Rosey this thread is going no where.

i think average boss said it the best.

The conflict comes from these two sentences in succession:

 

"Only Walk Action provoke Disengaging Strikes..."

 

"...model may not perform the Walk Action..."

 

So the strike prevents the action that is necessary to trigger it in the first place implying that it happened before but can't happen after at the same time.

 

This is the source of all the conflict.

 

 

To take a disengaging strike you must take a walk action. for a terror test to happen you must take a walk action.

 

if the disengaging strike stops you from performing the walk action thats fine and dandy, you still took a walk action for me to even try and stop you.

 

So i still cant find out where moving 0 has anything to do with this.

 

taking an action and not being able to complete it happens all the time. (ie manipulative, terror, squealing from the first attack on the charge or from the first attack from something like onslaught, Etc) 

 

Real simple in my mind: A: model takes a Walk action B:Stuff C: model ended a walk action. D: more stuff. eg terror

[Dracomax]

So are you saying i CANNOT declare a walk action and move zero? i must move something?

I'm saying that The rules specify that if you do not move, no movement was taken. SInce Wk actions are movement, they say that if you Wk 0, you didn't Wk.

Wrong. To make a disengage, you must declare a walk action.

Normally, any action which is impossible, as disengaging makes taking a Wk action, would simply fail without spending an AP.

 

Disengaging forces it to fail, and costs an AP, specifically. It never specifies that the AP is a Wk action at this point, which is what would be required for the specific case to override the general case that If 0" movement is made, no movement occured.

 

I don't like it, but the rules support no horror duel. I hate to say it, but since others have repeatedly shown evidence that you are reading it wrong, and the only evidence you can show is a paradox that is resolved if you seperate declaring an action from performing it(which is done elsewhere in the book as well) the only one going in circles is you.

[Mako]

Ok, I think this has gone both far enough and downhill enough for me to call time on it. No purpose will be served by it continuing.