creating arachnids with Ramos

[irishdave]

I'm probably being a little dense but what do I need to flip to summon 3 spiders? Is it 19?? And when they appear, are they at full strength?

[i_was_like_you]

Yes, 19 :tomes :tomes :tomes (one is included, spend a stone for another, and flip or cheat the third).

No, they take damage when they come into play. [At work, no book in front of me, but I think they put it back to armor reduces the damage.]

Hope that helps.

[irishdave]

So pretty tricky to get 3 in one turn... how many wounds would a single one have upon being summoned?

[i_was_like_you]

It says on his card. None for 1, 2 for 2, 3 for 3? Unless it changed one last time from the Beta. And they gain slow and cannot interact on the turn they are summoned.

[Fenton Crack]

It says on his card. None for 1, 2 for 2, 3 for 3? Unless it changed one last time from the Beta. And they gain slow and cannot interact on the turn they are summoned.

Armor came back after the beta ended (yay) so now you still have 2 wounds after summoning three spiders.

[r4st4f4n]

It says on his card. None for 1, 2 for 2, 3 for 3? Unless it changed one last time from the Beta. And they gain slow and cannot interact on the turn they are summoned.

Armor came back after the beta ended (yay) so now you still have 2 wounds after summoning three spiders.

If we muddle a simple explanation, we're lost! xD

As Fenton says, Armor is back, and reduces Dg -1, but not below 1, so:

1 Arachnid suffers 1Wd

2 Arachnids suffer 1Wd each (2Dg -1 Armor)

3 Arachnids suffer 2Wds each (3Dg -1 Armor)

Edited September 12, 2013 by r4st4f4n

[loserwithaplan]

Misread bras arachnid nothing to see here

Edited September 23, 2013 by loserwithaplan

[Metalhed]

Brass arachnid can also give him another :tomes for his casting so no need for the stone.

The brass arachnid can only do that to itself.

[i_was_like_you]

Misread bras arachnid nothing to see here

Made the same mistake in the beta. Thought they'd made it take the place of the Mobile Toolkit. We'll see in wave 2 if Ramos and Hoffman keep sharing the Toolkit or if Ramos can still hire any of the Guild's borrowed tech.

[Dracomax]

I'm betting that the mobile toolkit probably doesn't still give out the +:tomes. I think that it by the time we get out of beta, and given the previous beta, that there would be too many complaints about how easy it is for Ramos to summon 3 spiders a round.

I'd bet that the toolkit can either summon a single spider with 9:tomes, or perform construct healing at range. If the devs were really nice, they might give the toolkit the ability to summon something bigger than a spider, (like a large steam arachnid) but unless it costs 6+SS to hire, I doubt it. Still, would love to see upgrades or models for Ramos crew eventually that give you more summoning options.

I just have a feeling that now that the days of "bring the toolkit if you want to be able to use half of his core abilities(summoning spiders was core to Ramos, if only due to his fluff, and you wanted a surge every time if you could help it)" are gone, the Mobile toolkit is going to have to find a new niche to fill. and given how many players consider Ramos to be too good of a summoner already(not for quality of summons, but quantity), I don't see it being "Make Ramos even better at summoning spiders"

[Adran]

I'm betting that the mobile toolkit probably doesn't still give out the +:tomes. I think that it by the time we get out of beta, and given the previous beta, that there would be too many complaints about how easy it is for Ramos to summon 3 spiders a round.

I'd bet that the toolkit can either summon a single spider with 9:tomes, or perform construct healing at range. If the devs were really nice, they might give the toolkit the ability to summon something bigger than a spider, (like a large steam arachnid) but unless it costs 6+SS to hire, I doubt it. Still, would love to see upgrades or models for Ramos crew eventually that give you more summoning options.

I just have a feeling that now that the days of "bring the toolkit if you want to be able to use half of his core abilities(summoning spiders was core to Ramos, if only due to his fluff, and you wanted a surge every time if you could help it)" are gone, the Mobile toolkit is going to have to find a new niche to fill. and given how many players consider Ramos to be too good of a summoner already(not for quality of summons, but quantity), I don't see it being "Make Ramos even better at summoning spiders"

Its worth remembering that the toolkit was a totem for Hoffman as well, so what ever it does ougth to tie into Hoffman as well.

I don't see it adding tomes, but :+flips to Ca actions might well work. I would not be surprised to see healign for scrap on it.

[Dracomax]

Well, the toolkit was a totem for Hoffman. Given some of the changes to the fluff and the models, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ramos only, nor would I be surprised if it was Hoffman. Actually, I'd love to see Hoffman be able to summon some spiders by hiring the Toolkit. Don't expect it, but it would be awesome addition to his arsenal.

[Nephalumps]

Very good points about the Mobile Toolkit, Dracomax. I agree that they probably need to find a new design space for it in this edition, as it's old purpose (letting Ramos actually use his abilities) isn't necessary anymore.

It's one of the models I'm most interested in seeing how it makes the transition to M2E. Especially since I feel like they need to keep it from stepping too much on the toes of the Brass Arachnid (or not being as useful as it.)

[Dracomax]

Yeah, last edition, the brass arachnid was well loved until the Mobile toolkit, and then only really taken by 1) New players 2)players who wanted to try new combos out and 3) tournament players looking for playstyles that were radically different than the normal Ramos playstyle. and most of those didn't do it more than a couple of times.

If Ramos is going to have 2 totems designed for him(and did any master have that?) then they need to both be balanced against each other. I think that needs to be done before we even consider interactions with Hoffman(whose own personal totem needs to be much more useful in M2E) because if it isn't, then Either the Brass arachnid will supplant the Toolkit, or vice versa—with the loser being relegated to the shelf of shame.

I actually think that making it more like Tara's Karina would be a decent alternative. Make it better, but proportionally more expensive. I'd say as an enforcer it could be really cool, allowing it to take Bleeding Edge Tech(which seems made for a mobile toolkit fluffwise) and have some great support abilities(I'd support either giving it a bash, or no attack at all).

Then, make it dual faction—making it so that Hoffman can take it at the same price, because the 1 stone tax never really made much sense when the only person who has to pay it is the second master it was designed for) and ensure that there is at least one upgrade that it can take in the Hoffman suite, and I'd bet it becomes a balanced choice for either crew. Spend 3 SS on your standard totem, which has abilities that are good, but make it somewhat vulnerable/slow, or spend as much as another minion or elite model, but get some real synergies and survivability.

On the other hand, if they just wanted it to be another totem, I could also see them making it closer to Von Schill's steam trunk, allowing constructs to use it's (0) abilities when within a certain . I think that would be harder to balance, and would make design space more limited, but I could see them doing it.

[Ayleron]

Secondary super noob question, is there any way for M2e Ramos to generate his own scrap tokens with out killing something?

[Buddhanutz]

Ramos does not have a way of generating scrap on his own. He has to wait for something to die. This was a good game balance decision given how many spiders you can summon in a game. To make sure I have enough scrap to work with, I just hire a spider and have joss kill it first turn to generate two scraps, and Ramos goes to town for two turns summoning off the two scraps generated by Joss. i then maneuver him mid-field to support his spiders and to get within summoning distance of any newly generated scrap counters. It works pretty well.

If he were to have a way to self generate scraps, than it would have to be AP intensive in order to be balanced. This would put Ramos back to his 1rst edition self- where he was doomed to never move from where you deployed him.

[mythicFOX]

As another scrap generation trick I hire an electric creation, walk it forward early in the turn, then have Ramos case magnatise on it, this kills the EC for a scrap and Ramos gets a free push up the board.

[Dracomax]

Also, If you take the upgrade, you do not need scrap to summon an EC. if they die any other way than sacrifice(so long as you don't blow them up, mostly), they leave a scrap counter.