Rezzers.... Overpowered?

[Salteris]

So, here's the story. In my meta, I'm getting a little ostracized. No-one wants to play my crews, calling Overpowered.

I run Nico and Yan Lo (+ Molly if she counts).

I bought the Nico box first, then immediately Killjoy and Bette, some canines (whom I never use anymore), zombies, 2 vultures, and a Flesh Golem.

Right there is where it started. My, as new as I am to Malifaux, friend running Lady J, ran her up into a dead dog, insta killed it, and summoned Killjoy. He died in the ensuing battles with judge and Lady J, but so did she. He called the game soon after. Now I know it simply could be my meta and friends are bad sports, but it gets worse from there.

After buying a few more packs (Yan Lo, Molly, Toshiro, Yin, Izamu, aNico) I've found that the combos and strats I have to choose from to be completely overwhelming to my opponents.

When running Nico I start with 3 models, and soon have far more than my opponent. And Cb9 PZ's are nothing to sneeze at.

When running Yan, I crew Molly, Yin, Toshi and a Pz or two. Just plain powerful.

I've gone against Lady J (many times), Perdita, Zorida, Collette (don't get me started how easy she is), Kaeris, and the Viks, winning all, most of the time. Usually my opponents will get 1-2 victory pts (me 0), while my crew is heating up, then call the game (due to time) or simply give due to "Overpowered."

The time thing is also annoying to me. I try to go as fast as possible during my activations, but with so much going on, it's my opponents that are the ones taking a while, usually to change directives every time I summon or do something new to them. I've not played a game of Mali that took less than 2hrs.

Even more so, I've been feeling bored (due to lack of competition) with the 40+ models I do have and am thinking of picking up a new crew, but I like rezzers so much that Leveticus is the only master that sounds appealing enough to drop another $50-$70 on.

So, with all this, I'm going to the online community to get a bit of perspective of other metas. Is this also the general consensus with you guys? Are the Rezzers actually overpowered? What do you all think?

[HtUnliving]

I play Rezzers and for the last 5-6 matches or so have lost every time to von Schill or Viks, as they are my opponent's main crew. Last match I summoned a total of 3 Flesh Constructs and a Rogue Necromancy and killed almost the whole opposing crew... and still lost.

Why? Because of STRATEGIES AND SCHEMES. Don't play the opponent, play the game. Have your opponent's played their strats and schemes? Do any of them play von Schill?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Ressers are actually, in my opinion in the current state of the game, one of the two least powerful factions as a whole. They can still win, but as a faction they suffer from some major systemic issues that other factions have managed to overcome.

I He hasn't been out long enough for a real feel for how good he is, nor the tricks to deal with him discovered, but Kirai and Yan Lo are probably the most competitive masters Ressers have, and while the addition of Yan Lo is a very large benefit to the faction as a whole, it remains to be seen if this means that with those two masters the resser faction as a whole can now win major tournaments.

[Vanilla_Dice]

My first question was how were you summoning killjoy from a killed canine remains without slow to die.

Rezzers can have a bit of power sure, but in the end it comes down to strays and schemes and what crews you're facing... Face nico with a construct heavy crew for instance and he'll have a much harder time summoning things.

Rezzers aren't that bad, maybe you just need to take the foot off the gas a little with your crew selection and play style and possibly start looking at different "softer" minion options to give your opponents more of a chance?

[Tiemo18]

I find this is more of a debate of your local gaming scene all scenes have some faction they think is OP but in reality they all want to complain instead of adapt. The only thing I reccomend is lose some games get there confidence, Being a henchman i have to lose alot of games just to keep people in the game or not feel they are out matched. help them with there lists and show your weakniss's

[CrouchingMoose]

Also as a word of caution...If your opponents don't want to play against Nico or Yan Lo for being OP, then playing Leveticus will most certainly make them rage quit. There are many times that I've had Leveticus essentially take on the entire enemy crew alone and still come out on top.

[Salteris]

Oh, right that was Bette. No, I ran another canine up and sac'd him for Killjoy. Ah, the failures of memory. :/

[Guy in Suit]

Your friends need to work on their strategy. Ressers are average at best with many hard counters they have to watch out for.

I assume you meant to say you summoned Bete Noir off the canine remains. Killjoy requires the model to spend an AP, and last I checked canine remains don't have slow to die.

Spending an AP from Lady Justice to kill a canine remains is pretty much always a terrible use of a valuable resources. Doing it when Bete is on the bench is a huge blunder!

[Necrofaux]

I think it really comes down to individual differences in skill and playstyles. Many players do not focus on schemes and strategies enough, and ressers are good at forcing opponents to focus on dealing with enemy models rather than objectives. It really depends on gaming communities and metas as well. One meta may be inexperienced or play differently from another. One gaming meta is simply not a large enough sample to make wide-sweeping generalizations from (so it is good that you are making a poll to see if others agree with you or not).

Ressers have abusable combos, but so does every other faction. With that in mind, ressers are not underpowered or over powered, but have some combos that are bad and others that are good. For example, Kirai is considered pretty overpowered because of how durable, mobile, and killy her crew is. However Seamus with some belles like dead doxies and Madame Sybelle are pretty terrible. It is hard to make a statement about an entire faction because there is so much variability within each faction. You can have a terrible faction with a single powerful master, and that faction would be rated as "decent" simply due to the single outlier.

[HtUnliving]

Comping with the others (except that Rezzers are the weakest. Imo this game is so nicely balanced that onecanonly speak of which master/henchman is the weakest but that is moot and ot).

Help them with their games,lose if you must and try new things. Also try playong the underdog,eg.if someone is playing Criid,take ANico if strats permit.

---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

Comping with the others (except that Rezzers are the weakest. Imo this game is so nicely balanced that onecanonly speak of which master/henchman is the weakest but that is moot and ot).

Help them with their games,lose if you must and try new things. Also try playong the underdog,eg.if someone is playing Criid,take ANico if strats permit.

[Paddywhack]

I agree with most of the others. It seems as if your opponents aren't as experienced and are losing sight of the Strats/Schemes. Overall the Rezzers are not considered one of the most OP factions. Hoewever.... Yan Lo, Izamu, Bette and kill joy are all our very powerful models and can sometimes take on entire crews by themselves.

If your opponents aren't as skilled as you (and Collette should not be a cake walk, so I'm guessing they aren't using her correctly), you may want to try taking some of the lower cost models for a while and giving a little advice on how to face the rezzers.

Maybe use the tried and true method of switching factions for a game? You make your list and he make his and then switch. This will give you a chance to see how it is to face the rezzers and them a chance to see how you can stop them

[M_Ruckuss]

Izamu is OP. Spirit and Spam Izamu are....ridiculous. Them aside your opponents just need to learn to play your crews....

[Gruesome]

I personally Rank Rezzers at the moment right in the middle.

IMO, the "tiers" are:

NB, Outcasts

Rezzers

Arcanists, Guild

Mind you this is top to bottom for the factions. There are standouts in all of them...

Book 4 pushed us up quite a bit and was preceded by book 3 in which NB got Tuco, but rezzers got the BEST avatars...

[Dustcrusher]

I can assure you, Ressers are not overpowered. In fact, I'd argue Nico and Seamus are two of the weakest masters in the game. Dr. McMourning can be solid- right in the middle of the pack. Kirai can be nasty but she's hard to run, and I have never played or faced Yan Lo, so all I can say is he has the potential to be brutal, and it looks like you've seen that.

Your friends need to understand that Malifaux is likely a much more complicated game than they are used to, unless they are, say, tournament-level Infinity players or something. It's much more complex than 40k or WFB and they can't rely on powerlisting.

• Try running Molly as a Master if you have the models. She is arguably the weakest Henchman in the game.
  
• If you still win handily after that, swap masters with them for a game. If you play using their masters and still win, that should tell them something.
  
• Play as close to starter vs. starter as you can (you'll need Mindless Zombies for Nico, and a couple of other models. Stick to summoning models that cost 5 stones or less) for a while. That will help.
  

Good luck.

[Jewomie]

I personally Rank Rezzers at the moment right in the middle.

IMO, the "tiers" are:

NB, Outcasts

Rezzers

Arcanists, Guild

Mind you this is top to bottom for the factions. There are standouts in all of them...

Book 4 pushed us up quite a bit and was preceded by book 3 in which NB got Tuco, but rezzers got the BEST avatars...

I think, in my opinion and in my local meta (so take this with a grain of salt) but i would actually switch Rezzers and Archanists. Not because they are better, but if you add the problem areas together, i believe the rezzers come up a little short against the archanists.

Of course, you're opinion is going to vary based on what you've seen.

But no, in no way are the ressers over powered. Wait till your group gets someone who knows what to do with a zoriada or dreamer crew. haha. that is awesome stuff to watch. Not that i think the nb are over powered either, but it's undeniable that they are currently on top of the current power swing.

[Gruesome]

And Malifaux does not have anything like 5th edition 40K necrons...

One formula to beat them with just about any army... Get close, assault, phase them out... Game over.

I had read over and over in the forums about how lame Raspy is...

No one in our area plays her and last years adepticon was literally the FIRST time I ever saw her on the table.

And she nuked the ever-living SNOT out of me. (And red-jokered my Dead Rider off the table... )

And those Ice pillars... <shiver>

I did not see that coming...

I trust the word of many better players that perhaps at the highest level of play she lacks some answers, but thats besides the point.

Its like when I watch a car race and they talk about some new engine that has 5 MPH advantage over its competitors or something... In the hands of the professionals, that 5 MPH is relevant, to the rest of us, they are ALL driving faster than we ever will, so its all the same...

EDIT: @ Jewomie, If I based my tiers on only me, I would CERTAINLY rank arcanists over MY rezzers.

[Mach_5]

I'd argue Nico and Seamus are two of the weakest masters in the game.

This makes me feel really good for winning the Best Gunslinger (ie best general) at Walpurgis with Nicodem.

[Gruesome]

This makes me feel really good for winning the Best Gunslinger (ie best general) at Walpurgis with Nicodem.

Nico also took 1st and 2nd place at Adepticon Team Tourney!

Masters... Not so much.

[Mr. Goggles]

This topic made me laugh. I think your friends are poor sports, and based on how you are describing your battles (and Colette being easy) I'm guessing that they're not playing the schemes/strategies very well, and instead trying to run up and punch face to win.

Malifaux simply doesn't work like that. I sure as hell had to get my head wrapped around that, but I lost one of my very first games when my opponent had no models on the table, and that kinda forces you to step back and look at how you're playing and to realize that Malifaux is a VERY different entity then nearly every other tabletop.

And I hate to say this because it sounds mean, but it sounds like your friends might not be too good at this game. Based on how easily you're saying your matchups have been and who you've gone up against... I'm prone to think that.

Rezzers are definitely not overpowered, but like in any game, if you play against an inferior opponent you can feel overpowered.

Oh, and the two hour time thing, I've never played a single game of Malifaux that took over two hours, and that includes my first several games ever - and my first master was Colette. I had no idea what the hell I was doing, I had to re-read all of the cards every damn activation and it didn't take two hours to wrap up that game.

Be careful though, you don't want to continually steamroll your opponents (even if it's because they don't know what they're doing, which is what it sounds like) because that will dissuade people from the game, and discourage others from starting. That kinda happened at my FLGS when one guy picked up the rules faster then everyone else.

[M_Ruckuss]

This topic made me laugh. I think your friends are poor sports, and based on how you are describing your battles (and Colette being easy) I'm guessing that they're not playing the schemes/strategies very well, and instead trying to run up and punch face to win.

Malifaux simply doesn't work like that. I sure as hell had to get my head wrapped around that, but I lost one of my very first games when my opponent had no models on the table, and that kinda forces you to step back and look at how you're playing and to realize that Malifaux is a VERY different entity then nearly every other tabletop.

And I hate to say this because it sounds mean, but it sounds like your friends might not be too good at this game. Based on how easily you're saying your matchups have been and who you've gone up against... I'm prone to think that.

Rezzers are definitely not overpowered, but like in any game, if you play against an inferior opponent you can feel overpowered.

Oh, and the two hour time thing, I've never played a single game of Malifaux that took over two hours, and that includes my first several games ever - and my first master was Colette. I had no idea what the hell I was doing, I had to re-read all of the cards every damn activation and it didn't take two hours to wrap up that game.

Be careful though, you don't want to continually steamroll your opponents (even if it's because they don't know what they're doing, which is what it sounds like) because that will dissuade people from the game, and discourage others from starting. That kinda happened at my FLGS when one guy picked up the rules faster then everyone else.

+1

[Blog]

Coming from more than a year playing rezzers, I can see them (to some, not all) being OP at times. Izamu is redonkulous. Belles are a steal for what they do. 3ss really fast obj grabbers (NT's and NP's). But you have to remember, the game is the strategy and the schemes. I noticed in the OP that he took pretty badass things to start with. Given the right situation, Killjoy can and will wreck a lot. Kirai and Yan Lo are definitely on top in terms of game power while McM, Seamus and Nico all kinda sit about equal below them in terms of what they do. Granted, what I'm saying right now will probably change entirely once M2E is released. Super excited for that, they are changing a good number of things that should be changed, and it is in a positive direction. inb4 nope.

While your meta may see rezzers as overpowered, you gotta realize that its the player not the game.

[HtUnliving]

Every faction has its peaks and downs. Personally I cannot understand how people can say how Nico is underpowered but he has his moments.

The solution is to play at the masters weaknesses, whoever he is. Nico himself is fragile so threaten him; and he uses CC so destroy them/ sac his crew. McM has WP issues so hit him there.

If anyone wants to enlighten me about Nico, PM please. I want to learn more about him

[Sonova]

The main weakness of ressers is that except for a couple of exceptions, most of the models need high crows to do their signature stuff.

[Soul Puppet]

I've found that the combos and strats I have to choose from to be completely overwhelming to my opponents.

In what way? What makes it so easy for you but so difficult for them to achieve objectives?

When running Yan, I crew Molly, Yin, Toshi and a Pz or two. Just plain powerful.

There are lots of combinations of models across the factions that are considered powerful. What makes this one harder than any other to face?

I've gone against Lady J (many times), Perdita, Zorida, Collette (don't get me started how easy she is), Kaeris, and the Viks, winning all, most of the time. Usually my opponents will get 1-2 victory pts (me 0), while my crew is heating up, then call the game (due to time) or simply give due to "Overpowered."

So, if I'm reading this right, your crew takes a while to get up and running. In a tournament, if the time runs out and your opponent had 1-2VPs and you have 0VPs, that means you've lost. Other than that though, I'll echo what others have already said with regards to other people's experience and, more importantly, expectations of Malifaux. Maybe point your regular opponents in the direction of these forums or the Pull My Finger Wiki to get some help on beating you.

As a regular Colette player, I don't think your Yan Lo list is OP at all.

I've been feeling bored (due to lack of competition)

Then seek a better way to play. Either find another group or help improve the one you are in (or just play Vassal games against the best players you can find).

Are the Rezzers actually overpowered? What do you all think?

Nope. Not at all.

[Math Mathonwy]

I had read over and over in the forums about how lame Raspy is...

No one in our area plays her and last years adepticon was literally the FIRST time I ever saw her on the table.

And she nuked the ever-living SNOT out of me. (And red-jokered my Dead Rider off the table... )

And those Ice pillars... <shiver>

I did not see that coming...

I trust the word of many better players that perhaps at the highest level of play she lacks some answers, but thats besides the point.

Well, to be fair, facing any Master for the first time ever is very, very tough - especially so in a competitive environment where the other player is likely to have lots of games under him with his Master. Play five against Tina and you will see her weaknesses and how to exploit them.