HtUnliving Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I have now played a couple of matches against Outcasts and although very different lists, the one common factor was von Schill and his cronies. How does one beat that much resilience, Wp and damage, both ranged and melee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 The tongue-in-cheek answer? Von Schill! Now, considering that isn't all that helpful, keep in mind that one of the obnoxious bits of Von Schill is his healing. Keep hitting him with damage, and keep the pressure on. Don't ignore your objectives (if you must ignore your objectives or one model, ignore the model) but Von Schill is an expensive proposition to keep alive if you do it right. Every Soulstone spent in a Slow to Die action is one that isn't being used to kill you, take it as a blessing. Additionally, kill the support mechanisms. Got a Librarian keeping him alive? Go for her rather than Von Schill. Always consider Izamu and a pair of Belles, it's a great matchup for killing things. And if all else fails... Von Schill. *wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darios Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 bete... nothing ssays more "douchebag" to mr. von Schill than paired melee with paralyze... no slow to die for you... sorry lass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtUnliving Posted March 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I've started wondering about the possibility of Izamu + Dead Rider. Link a Grave Spirit on Izamu, then Drag it towards the enemy lines. There are now two models the opponent needs to kill right away or else they are done. Combine w. Mortimer and/or Toshiro and we've got an Izamu in melee on the first turn. That would probably boil the opponent's potatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelante Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 If Von Schil has a Librarian in his pocket make a point of going after it and one of two things will happen. One is that your opponent will be worried about keeping the Librarian alive and divert resources to protect it, including perhaps Von Schil himself. The second is that you succeed in taking down the Librarian and your opponent isn't so keen in placing Von Schil in harms way without a heal button to keep him fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepfan Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Honestly I'd be tempted to burn a soulstone on Molly's "Philosophy of Uncertainty"(assuming he isn't leading the crew, though it might be better to use her totem if you have a red joker/high crows). Anything that can autokill negates slow to die healing so Seamus and Bete Noire can help with that. Hit him with Dr. McMourning and Summon a Rouge Necromancy on top of him. Just a few quick ideas, the man is a pest. I've found Belles are somewhat lackluster against him due to his high WP.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Take Leveticus and laugh in his face when you kill him in one turn with no chance of a slow to die action? No seriously, anything which can paralyse him is brilliant, so thats Bete, Nico, Crooked men etc... Reduce his WP and make him run away with aSeamus? So hanged, dogs, night terrors, aSeamus... McMourning Wracked with pain - no zero actions, no rocket boots, no Hard ass. Then just get him into combat with something nasty, i.e. Izamu or Mcmourning (a couple of dissections will do the trick, as will rancid transplant - ++ to damage flips will soon start to hurt him... Jack Daw - no cheating, no soulstones on starting duels, laugh when he tries to hurt you and then heartstopper... Kirai with Shikome? Point and click at Von Schill - one of the resser models which can keep up with the bouncy moron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryu Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Take Leveticus and laugh in his face when you kill him in one turn with no chance of a slow to die action? No seriously, anything which can paralyse him is brilliant, so thats Bete, Nico, Crooked men etc... Reduce his WP and make him run away with aSeamus? So hanged, dogs, night terrors, aSeamus... McMourning Wracked with pain - no zero actions, no rocket boots, no Hard ass. Then just get him into combat with something nasty, i.e. Izamu or Mcmourning (a couple of dissections will do the trick, as will rancid transplant - ++ to damage flips will soon start to hurt him... Jack Daw - no cheating, no soulstones on starting duels, laugh when he tries to hurt you and then heartstopper... Kirai with Shikome? Point and click at Von Schill - one of the resser models which can keep up with the bouncy moron... While I won't argue against any of these points, a smart Von Schill player will do everything s/he can to stay away from said auto-kill mechanics - so keep that in mind. Even with said mechanics you'll need to lay some form of a trap. Also, I've never had a problem with the Shikome. Since it can't ignore armor I let it catch up, laugh at it, and kill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Honestly I'd be tempted to burn a soulstone on Molly's "Philosophy of Uncertainty"(assuming he isn't leading the crew, though it might be better to use her totem if you have a red joker/high crows). Yeah, with the right cards and setup, Molly and her totem can spam Philosophy twice a turn (or more?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehter Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Nicodem and Yan Lo deal with him the best with Rigor Mortis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClayWeeks Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Yeah, with the right cards and setup, Molly and her totem can spam Philosophy twice a turn (or more?). Unfortunately "Philosophy of Uncertainty" requires you to sacrifice the casting model before the opponent flips to resist. So, they can cast it twice a game if you play it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigkid Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 On a simpler note, I've had great success using a Hanged to cast Whisper from beyond late in the turn when my opponents hand is reduced. At the very least it burns a stone and if you keep a high card for the purpose very often gets through and once tends to be enough to make your opponent worry for their 5wd, no heal superman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierowmaniac Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Yeah, with the right cards and setup, Molly and her totem can spam Philosophy twice a turn (or more?). And a bucket load of luck! Unfortunately the reality is you are lucky to get the right position, cards in hand and set up twice a game, let alone twice a turn .....Not saying it's impossible mind, just very unlikely. Interesting thoughts on Von Schill beating though, a good thread full of interesting ideas for standing up to the evil moustached one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I'm just theorizing, as the Necrotic Machine can cast it, and Molly can summon a new Necrotic Machine. So, if the Machine cast it, then Molly summoned a replacement one, then the replacement could also cast it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Hang work very well against the Terry Hogan err "Von Schill" Additionally cloud effects and paralyze really mess up the hulkersters day as well. As a paralyzed model taht is reduced to 0 wds can't do slow to dies he's paralzyed. But yes hanged really hurt the hulkster. Additionally just getting your models into melee helps lessen Von schills effects as well as having to randomize on his gun as well as the stat boosts for being in melee means he's less effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepfan Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I'm just theorizing, as the Necrotic Machine can cast it, and Molly can summon a new Necrotic Machine. So, if the Machine cast it, then Molly summoned a replacement one, then the replacement could also cast it. True... but yeah. I manage to get this spell off with that totem successfully like half my games. Trying to get it off twice... well could be great, if you have the correct cards it's probably dead(depending on WP, SS use, opponents hand etc.). You still are limited to twice however(totem and then molly or totem and then totem), as a third would require totem, molly, totem like Zoraida's Obey chain but Molly's Totem goes down with her. Still it's a good thing to keep an eye out for, and Seamus' Trail of Fear can help boost that as well. A dead Von Schill is worth a high card and a stone easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Jack Daw - no cheating, no soulstones on starting duels, laugh when he tries to hurt you and then heartstopper... This is why my Avatar in the Forums is what it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntereoVivo Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Pressure is the way you beat him (and pretty much all other tough models). As has been mentioned, paralyze is gold, but the biggest thing is hitting him over and over again. Force your opponent to burn resources as fast as possible and they'll either back VonShill off or he'll go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) To be fair anything that paralyzes, ignores armor, Auto kill (Headshot, Decapitate, Mannequin Replacement, ETC), poisons or stops healing hurts Von Schill. He is resilient but not unstoppable. Try to focus more on his crew unless you have a good model that can put any of those things on Schilly Con Carne. Minions that could help by Faction Guild = Wardens, Nino, Executioner Arcanist = Steamborg, Raspys Freeze Over, LSPA Ressers = Hanged, Shikome (poison trigger), Onryo, Datsue Ba, Drowned Neverborn = Twins, Tuco, Coppelius, Collodi (Death by a thousand cuts) Outcasts = Ronin, Hans (Weird huh), Taelor, Pigapult, Rusty Alyce, Killjoy (Sheer brute force) and these are just from the top of my head. Now I know that I didnt mention 10T and thats because I still dont have enough information to actually mention their answers. But Outcasts models are usually available to them Edited March 31, 2013 by DarcXON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Adding to 10T / Guild, in conjunction with the models DarcXON mentioned, McCabe's spell "Stunner!", that can turn slow into paralyzed, would be a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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