Best Guild master ...

[mcmourning san]

I know there has been a great deal of discussion on which is the most "competitve" master, but I'm more interested in which master people would be most interested in taking for fixed master, given they had access to all of the guild models and which models they would bring to cover their bases. The tournament is fixed master 35ss with a 25ss model sideboard so a total of 60 stones

Perdita

Lady J

Sonnia

Hoffman

McCabe

[NeuroFire]

Personally, if I had to play a fixed master tourney, I'd go with Sonnia. I like all the masters for different reasons, but I play Sonnia the most and I think she's the most versatile. She was designed to fight Arcanists, but she also does well against Resurrectionists because a lot of them are high Ca, plus all the magic can devastate spirits. I haven't played against Neverborn as much, but Sonnia can counterspell a lot of their tricks, and her far-reaching blasts can be a great way to hit some of the trickier masters. Blasts can also be a good way to take out some of Hamlin's friends, and Flame Wall (or Pyre) can be a nice way to divert just about anything. The main thing she struggles against is the Viks, but I almost always struggle against them no matter what. I think her Avatar would fare better, though I haven't actually taken it against a Vik crew yet. That's me, though, a lot of people would probably say Perdita was your girl.

[Jewomie]

I'm certainly not countering NeuroFire here but i have always been partial to Lady Justice. She is tough as nails, and she is the bane of corpse counters everywhere.

I haven't played Sonnia before, so i don't know what she can and cant do, but i have only heard good things. However, i've always been a Lady J fan when it comes to guild. Perdita would be a second option, but i'd leave the family behind more often than not. lol

Good luck!

[Ozz]

Personally i would be one of the Perdita fans.

probably taking:

Santiago - 7

Nino - 7

Francisco - 5

Executioner - 7

Enslaved nephilim - 2

Brutal Effigy - 4 just in case you happen to not be an obey fan or decide healing is more important.

Then not so sure, i guess it depends on play style. For me i would probably go with cheap models:

2 Witchlings: 8

3 Death Marshals: 12

1 Austringer - 5

1 Watcher - 3

Think that adds up to 60.

---------- Post added at 02:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 AM ----------

Lady J with a similar if not the same list (for my play style) would be second option, but Perdita being so fast and high Def, and the guns just makes her feel the best to me for a fixed master event.

[Omenbringer]

Personally, if I had to play a fixed master tourney, I'd go with Sonnia. I like all the masters for different reasons, but I play Sonnia the most and I think she's the most versatile.

I would definately agree with this for all the reasons giving in the full post and add in that she is also the only Guild Master that can replace lost models during the game. Her Avatar as well introduces some absolutely nasty potential.

[13th Warrior]

What Ozz said, pretty much.

The only changes I'd make to the model pool would be to take out the Austringer and a Death Marshall and add in an Exorcist and a second Watcher, but that's just me.

I just find Perdita to be the most versatile Guild Master because she can support her crew, she can dispel effects on them, and her Obey tricks work on almost all Guild minions, but if needs be she's fast enough and hits hard enough on her own to be a significant threat to pretty much any model in the game. Plus a well timed Companion chain can be devastating.

[PokiePrawn]

Perdita for sure. All the other masters have a chance at a 'bad matchup', but Perdi does not really match up poorly against anyone.

A honourable mention should go to McCabe, although I have never played him, his mobility is useful in almost any match up. He can also customize his load depending on the mission which might give an edge over other crews.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Perds all the way. I can field her with an army of cheap Guild models and steamroll an opponent, or focus all my points on making her into Perdita Godhand.

After that, it's C. Hoffman. I've played him long enough that I have to mentally "Un-Hoff-Motize" when I pick up a different master.

McCabe is the Wild Card in all of this. I need to figure out the ins and outs of Family 2.0 before I really place him.

Sonnia is just someone I feel really limited by, but she's not awful.

Lady J is a finally sharpened blade in a game that takes a lot more to win.

[Argentbadger]

I think that the answer here is going to be the ‘one you have the most experience with’. The Guild masters all have lots of little tricks to get the most out of, and you’ll get a lot more mileage if you know them well rather than picking the master that a bunch of strangers on the Internet say is the best.

For my part, I would (and did) choose Sonnia Criid as she has answers to a lot of problems in the game between blasts, Advanced Counterspell, magic weapons, healing tricks, card discard tricks, creation of new models, creating cover etc. If you’re interested in my experience, it can be found here. Part of my rationale for that choice was that I know Sonnia much better than any of the other Masters.

Overall, I think that a case could be made for any of the six options.

[Bacms]

I have never played Sonnia so I can't really comment on her, neither have I played the man on the horse yet. I play mainly L. Justice but have also wondered into C. Hoff and Perdita domains.

As much as I like Justice she can have some pretty bad match ups. So I would recommend you pick either Perdita or Hoff. Perdita is really good on her own and you don't even need to pick the family to be honest. Take some fast models like the watcher (Card Manipulation) or Hounds and you will be able to do anything with her.

Hoff can also be quite good but it is less straightforward so unless you have loads of experience with him I wouldn't recommend him

[Adran]

I would echo the view that the one you knew the best is the best to pick.

On the assumption that you don't really know any of them then I would say that Perdita is the most versitile and forgiving of the masters to cover the complete range of stratergies. Largely becuase of all the extra action modifiers, Fast doesn't tie you down and is always useful. That and the raw speed she has means she can single handedly complete most stratergies.

Me personally I would probably buck the trend and Pick Lucius.

I would lament the loss of the witchling stalker, but could pick plenty of options.

My 60ss pool is probably

2 Austringer

Guard Captain

Ryle

Warden

3 guild guard

2 dogs

2 riflemen

Drill sergent

I don't think its the "best choice" but its what I would probably pick.

[mcmourning san]

In general I haven't seen guild win any big tournament I always see neverborn followed by arcanist/ outcast for second and third place. Is there a reason out faction does not take home first place? I love dita I have the most experience with her over any other master in the game and have won many times with her I just don't understand what has gotten us behind?

[Bacms]

From a non competitive player and still newbie and based only in what I read it seems the problem with guild is it is the true paper rock scissors faction. So in a tournament with fixed masters they tend not to do very well. Neverborn is seen as the best faction at the moment followed by Outcasts. I actually have read several discussion where people point ressers and arcanists as the weakest factions at the moment. Curious to see what is the opinion of the more experienced people

[Odin1981]

I think it in my humble opinion can be summed up to two things. Guild is pretty straight forward. It is kinda a double edged sword. It is good in that guild crews for the most part aren't complex so that the # of user errors are limited compared to complex crews. But every guild list you use for the most part as soon as you plop down your figures on the table the opponent will know what you plan on doing with the models you have selected as long as the opponent isn't new/unaware of what guild does.

The second part of my answer is the lack of a break in case of emergency glass fire extinguisher. I often play in local tournaments in my area. I don't travel much so no idea about national meta but next year I aim to make it to adepticon due to family living 20 minutes away from where it gets played. But anyways I digress, the thing with guild is that they are a momentum based faction in my eyes you get a snowball rolling and it turns into a avalance at a certain point. However if the other player can steal your thunder it really hurts are faction in that we often don't have a way of turning the tables and getting momentum back.

Often times nowadays if I feel like going to a tournament and doing well (top three finish if 16+ or top two if 8 or less) I would rather go with another faction due to the break if needed button. Nothing wrong with guild at all but we lack that as a faction compared to others. For me this means in any tournament that I feel like doing well in I go with arcanists. I really like the combo of two masters currently (mei+colette) because both crews no matter what I take in a game both have break if needed options. Where as with guild I personally feel outside of dita we don't (imho obviously I'm sure some people will come in chiming I'm incorrect) have a reliable option. Also I don't like being shoehorned into just running one master in a entire event.

[PokiePrawn]

I don't want this to turn into a what is the best faction debate because I am sure it is in this forum somewhere, but any faction with Dreamer and Zoraida will do well. These 2 masters are well rounded, powerful masters who can do it all - well! To make matters worse, the Guild tend to match up poorly against the Neverborn. Terror causing fast crews do well against the Guild, and all of the Neverborne fit into that catagory.

[Odin1981]

Zoraida is mitigated by not deploying models in los turn1 and largly ignoring here if you aren't playing claim jump focus on her crew and if possible try to not take many melee options for suboptimal obey targets. Dreamer is nowhere near the level of wtf that he was pre errata if you have a good deployment plan and don't send off models unsupported to get eaten to chumpy. Companion if advanced correctly on turn two will wreck a chumpy crew.

The best we can do on the wp front is a crap ton of effective ortegas, possible addition of sue, stalkers, + any model that can buff crews wp. Outside of dita guild has crap defense however they have great wp stats + dispel magic/shrug off. The best thing that can contend with neverborne in guild is a high wp for their screw off effects/abilities + we are fairly even with them on the damage front. Often times guild vs neverborne matchups turn into damage races where generally guild brace for impact, borne hit first, then guild retailiate and get after everything in range of companion activation. But outside of 4 twin matchups (whoever thought up they should have been rare 2 each I really pray is no longer working for the company) they lack the amount of activations of their alpha to wreck the capability of a guild list in one swoop.

[i_was_like_you]

I opt for McCabe, but I'd run him as 10T instead of Guild to give him the Guild options and all of those wonderful new 10T toys to play with.

In second, I'd go for Sonnia for the model replacement and magical damage with blasts.

'Dita's great, unless you go avatar, then she's gotta change tactics completely. Her best df in the game drops to the level of a Mature Nephilim. Easy to hit, even with ss use.

[Omenbringer]

In general I haven't seen guild win any big tournament I always see neverborn followed by arcanist/ outcast for second and third place. Is there a reason out faction does not take home first place? I love dita I have the most experience with her over any other master in the game and have won many times with her I just don't understand what has gotten us behind?

Aside from what has already been posted by others I would also add that Guild doesn't have access to the more insane movement shenanigans or easy methods of combating Attrition based tactics.

With that said however, Lucius had a pretty good showing at GenCon a few years ago. Though not un-beatable it is difficult to counter 3 strikes at Cb 9 with a flip on the strike that ignores LOS at range 12 followed by up to 4 more at Cb 7 with all the other stuff as well.

[PokiePrawn]

It is interesting to see Odin1981's opinion of the Guild, and would love to see how some of the battles played out.

I have only played against the Neverborne with Guild once (I did win against Lynch), but my local group Guild players do not do well against the Neverborne, be it the Dreamer or Zoraida. The Stiched fog is a nasty defense against most shooting, and they get out moved and out melee'd. Last weekend Zoraida 8-0ed a solid Guild player in turn 3, and I saw Dreamer wipe out 8 of 9 Sonia models by turn 2 on route to another 8-0 win.

It just seems that all Neverborne abilitites focus on living models (terror, blood, etc).

[Jonas Albrecht]

I don't think it's a matter of Guild being bad, I think it's a matter of Neverborn just being a more competitive faction.

[Odin1981]

It is interesting to see Odin1981's opinion of the Guild, and would love to see how some of the battles played out.

I have only played against the Neverborne with Guild once (I did win against Lynch), but my local group Guild players do not do well against the Neverborne, be it the Dreamer or Zoraida. The Stiched fog is a nasty defense against most shooting, and they get out moved and out melee'd. Last weekend Zoraida 8-0ed a solid Guild player in turn 3, and I saw Dreamer wipe out 8 of 9 Sonia models by turn 2 on route to another 8-0 win.

It just seems that all Neverborne abilitites focus on living models (terror, blood, etc).

I would never in my wildest dream use sonia against neverborne unless it were a fun game (lol neverborne and fun game) maybe just maybe if I knew the player only had dora I would use sonia but that is the only time I would. If they play stitched dita kills them fine in melee for no reprisal. However if they play doppleganger that is the first thing you must kill. You will normally have to win initative to kill stitched so they don''t 2 for 1 activation with them. Against ortega's (ie the good ones not the entire crew) stitched due about nothing unless they have been hit by a madness first. Also the wp duel they have since you are the defender is wp 8 against the base lowly attribute for stitched which is 6 (good luck on not hitting yourselves with that wp-wp duel stitched).

I personally would not use hoff against borne but you could but the blanket i2i on hoff models can be removed fairly easily or entirely by their master choice (pandora). Dita hard comps dora unless the dora player is damn near pro level (if you run up to a great dora player its a coinflip basically who gets in first 3 shots with dita or mental anguish trigger from dora). The one constant with the borne faction is wp related abilities and effects (slow, poison, paraylized) if you build a a crew based around contesting that type action (austringers, ortegas, sue, stalkers and such forth) and don't go a route that often has been common in the last few years heavy i2i + nonliving options you will find surprising results. Also we are the only faction with both dispell magic as well as shrug off and it really helps against neverborne.

A while back pokie I and a few other vets to guild did a collaboration thread I made on playing against neverborne put a search for it or start checking pages in guild forum from like page 14 or farther back. It is outdated (back from the book 2 days) but most holds true still. The majority of neverborne lists I face normally have a sizeable point limit % of book 2 models. Book 3 gave them dolls + tuco. I would make a gander book 4 gave them beckoners but it is still too early to see what else they picked up.

Also in reply to the poster (mcmorning son I believe?) in the book 1 days guild (perdita), leve, pandora, and if I remember correctly viks where the masters most often you would see place in big events/complained about. Since then the placings with guild have dried up. But if I ever where to get involved in a pick your masters irregardless of faction and play I guarentee you one of the three lists I would use would be my often favored dita list (colette and more than likely a coin flip of either a viks crew build or my newly picked up aZoraida crew would be my other two). I lurked on these forums for around 6 months before joining but I started playing around a similiar time that joe from cheated fates started playing so I have seen the game change quite a bit (half the games I play I'm often scared I remember a rule incorrectly due to a previous version existing of it lol).

Edited March 6, 2013 by Odin1981

[i_was_like_you]

Off topic, but:

That mis-remembering of previous versions is why I had hoped the Rules Manual would have had an index clarifying old way vs new way of a rule or ability. Instead, go to look for a rule, it's not there. Hunt through the forums, still no luck. Did the rule change or get deleted or what?!

That's why I'm glad all of the errata and clarifications have been applied to actual stat cards for Dreamer and Hamelin. It takes a lot of the guess work out of them.

[Trevelyan]

I don't want this to turn into a what is the best faction debate because I am sure it is in this forum somewhere, but any faction with Dreamer and Zoraida will do well. These 2 masters are well rounded, powerful masters who can do it all - well! To make matters worse, the Guild tend to match up poorly against the Neverborn. Terror causing fast crews do well against the Guild, and all of the Neverborne fit into that catagory.

I beat Dreamer with Hoffman only a few nights ago. I wouldn't fear Zoraida with a construct crew either. And the last tournament I played in (actually the only tournament I played in) saw Hoffman on top.

I think the real issue with tournaments is that a lot of them seeme to be fixed crew, or at least fixed master with limited crew selection, when Malifaux works best at a faction level.

Plus, of all the factions, the Guild is by far the most predictable. Guild does gunlines with a little melee. Hoffman's constructs are about as different as a guild crew gets. Individual models tend to be good value for the ss cost, but they rarely do anything other than walk and fight. Contrast that with Neverborn which have a reputation for speed and good melee damage, but can drop a disturbing number of other tricks on the table. And Outcasts (my other faction) don't even have what you'd call a defining playstyle (Levi is practically a faction to himself!).

[Odin1981]

Leve, Pandora, and hamelin are basically a game within a game due to their mechanics in how they operate.

In reply to I was yeah that would have been nice, something like every change wyrd does when the rules get updated put what changes first show old then show new version so old players don't think they are too old skirting around worring about alzeimers lol.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Odin1981

[i_was_like_you]

@Odin, 'Faux-zeimers?

I remember when I started playing Malifaux, all the models were metal, and ya had to buy yer totem separately. You whippersnappers have it easy.