New to 'the hoff'

[underdog6750]

So i played my first game with the hoff the other night. I got him on ebay for a steal which is the only reason i got him and i have to admit i absolutely loved it. I find he is a great master and well balanced

To this end it has completely rekindled my love of guild and will be putting aside the ressers for a while with a league and a couple of local tournies to play in the near future i will be exclusively using guild.

Has anyone had any negetive experiences playing with him?

Also i was wondering what models are good to use with him. So far ive got the starter box and warden. Ive ordered the peacekeeper. Are any of the arcanist models worth while? If so what ones?

[Iron Skies]

Only one Arcanist model is really worth it. The mechanical attendant. Everything else the Guild has better constructs for.

Negatives wise the crew is really dependent on the Hoff being alive. If he gets taken out about 7/10 times the game is over. He does have a hard time with strategies where you need to split your crew up as well.

[NeuroFire]

Only one Arcanist model is really worth it. The mechanical attendant. Everything else the Guild has better constructs for.

I'm going to assume this should read "mobile toolkit." The mechanical attendant is Hoffman's native Guild totem.

I just got Hoffman myself, so it's all kind of theoretical, but I thought the Mechanical Rider looked great for him. She can get up to Armor +4, which would be amazing for Protected by Machines. She also has Wicked, which I thought would be a good thing to Assimilate. She can also gain a couple other things I wouldn't mind Assimilating. I had a tough time deciding whether she was better than the Peacekeeper (same cost, different skills) so eventually I'll be trying both of them. Was also considering the Arachnid Swarm since they have Melee Master (another potential great Assimilation) and they can do that whole break apart thing if necessary. Also thought about the Steamborg Executioner, because it would be kinda fun to run both Executioners, but I'm not sure I wanna pay 11 stones for the guy.

[Adran]

I think the common view is that the Swarm can be very handy, but its 10 stones. I keep meaning to abuse it and the Mechanical attendent to source a large number of scrap tokens, but haven't managed it yet. Melee expert is a nice think to assimillate, but you probably want a different construct to be Hoffmans Ride, and so yoo are probably spending a lot of points on just 2 models.

The Mechanical rider is mooted occasionally as a different model to act as Hoffmans ride, as it is pretty quick, but its not all that much faster than a peacekeeper, and the peacekeeper is a tougher proposition on the whole as Hoffman ignores its downsides.

The steamborg executioner looks like it should be good, but I've yet to get it to perform to the level its stats suggest.

The Large Spider and the soulstone miner probably round up the list of probable constucts. They can both be good if used well.

My best suggestion would be to proxy/borrow them and try them for a couple of games. Some might suit your style perfectly, and others you might see a great use for in certain stratergies.

[underdog6750]

Cheers for the seedy responses. Like my lucius crew i have a model i want to try make work fpr the hoff. Its the hunter. I like the sculpt how he is sneaking along. I know alot of people knock him but im determined to make him work

I dont think i would get the arachnid swarm. Its alot of stones for a model that woupdnt perform too well for my play style. The soul stone miner could be usefull perhaps? Also another one of my little fads is i dont like using alternate totems. I like using the models specifoc. Call me fluffy or whatever haha.

I have fpund he is great fun to play. Another thing i propose on doing is not taking a watcher as i know alot of people do take him. I just think he does alot of nothing to be honest in a hoff crew. He could be usefull in living guild crews fpr negating terrifying etc?

I think i would take a living model instead of him. As i want to have my own take on running hoff crews and try stay away from the norm

Thanks again for the responses. Im having a game tonight so will let you know how it goes.

[Odin1981]

Take/buy coppelious then, he is still only 9ss with hoffman and he doesn't get talked about much here amongst the hoffman users.

[rancor709]

big fan of Mechanical rider with the Hoffman. Fits my style more so than the smashy smashy of the peacekeeper. And I'm sucker for riders in general. Had a bit of fun with a duel rider Hoffman list.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Are any of the arcanist models worth while? If so what ones?

The Mannequinn.

[Ozz]

Seems a relevant question to put into this thread. But i have always been wondering, how important is a totem for Hoffman? And is it for anything other than a longer protect chain, and which of the two are best for him? Mobile toolkit or mechanical attendant, if taking one is generally a good idea?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Seems a relevant question to put into this thread. But i have always been wondering, how important is a totem for Hoffman? And is it for anything other than a longer protect chain, and which of the two are best for him? Mobile toolkit or mechanical attendant, if taking one is generally a good idea?

A totem is a very good idea for Hoffman, and I am always hesitant to run him without one. The Mobile Toolkit wins hands down, given that it can autofollow C. Hoffman (which is incredibly important in the grand scheme of playing Choffman), give out a heals, and blow up **** when you need to sac a guy.

The most the Mechanical Attendant can boast is an extension of Maintain Machines and a ****ty scrap gimmick.

[osoi]

The great thing about either totem is that they are cheap significant models for Hoffman as well. I have never not run him without a totem (and yes its always the toolkit).

Mannequins are great with him plus if you happen to get a performer who can pull off some nasty tricks when combined with Coppellius.

Hoffman

-Mobile Toolkit

Watcher

Performer & Mannequin

Wastrel

Coppelius

makes for a nice 'wonky' list that has some good mobile elements, hard to pin down and is very atypical of what you would expect when facing Hoffman normally

[underdog6750]

I just cant bring myself to take the watcher. I would rather drop a stone and the watcher to get a decent 4 stone model of which the guild have a wealth

Actually funnily enough we were talking about potentially running copelious with hoffman last night while gaming. I was playing raspi and it ended up a very close 2-0 win. As it was part of the achievement league i was consintrating on killing raspi with one of her own minions (was worth 10 points equal to the points from 5 wins) so was a gamble. I failed at that but still managed to maintain the win. My opponent drew the rj in his hand 3 times that game lol.....

Ive been contemplating taking a rider/peacekeeper list to beat face very quickly. How ever im not a fan of racing halfway across the board turn one to get counter attacked. Also what would the manaquin bring to a hoff crew?

Some interesting ideas so thanks very much

[Jonas Albrecht]

what would the manaquin bring to a hoff crew?

Armor +3

Open Circuit at 5 damage instead of 4

Ca at 8 instead of the 7 it usually is from Empowered

A painless Tap Power target

The look on your opponent's face when you Machine Puppet a Mannequin and kill one of their toys is priceless.

Also, Wp 8 isn't bad at all.

Basically, take the Mannequin when your strategy is "Open Circuit my opponent's team to death." It's not going to work against everyone, but it's a great, GREAT way to take on some hard to his masters. Especially Neverborn.

[The Godlyness]

why stop at open circuit 5?

2 mannis gives you 6!!!!!!!

and since 6 dg kills most minions only need to cast it once!!!!

things you dont try this against. Guild (or just sonnia) being CA8 or 9 some times 10 is the worst idea ever. violation for death kk. (yes it happened to me did not get initiative to assimilate I2I does wounds so by passes his armor) also i would be good against NB except collodi, so it is a gimmick but a fun one when you see it.

wardens are also Great. by great i mean has a paralyze trigger which is great.

[Jonas Albrecht]

2 mannis gives you 6!!!!!!!

If only we could get them cheaper.

Also, Open Circuit is about the only assault mechanism you can spend soulstones on, so I tend to save it for killing the masters that I can with it.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Jonas Albrecht

[Wake of Godzilla]

things you dont try this against. Guild (or just sonnia) being CA8 or 9 some times 10 is the worst idea ever. violation for death kk.

Does this work? I was playing against an opponent who said that the CA was as printed for the sake of targeting, but goes up when the Hof is casting...

[Jonas Albrecht]

Does this work? I was playing against an opponent who said that the CA was as printed for the sake of targeting, but goes up when the Hof is casting...

I think the wording just says +1 to Ca for each friendly construct within 4".

So it's always 5+x. Violation of Magic would get the bonus damage.

[Enki]

Back to the question of who to get for hoffman...

I have been having fun using Ryle as the hoff's ride. It certainly does surprise some people and is hilarious picturing little bro getting a piggy back ride. I use as an alternative to the peacekeeper when I want more ranged capability. You would be surprised how effective having Ryle shoot 7 times from 12" away can be.

Also theoryfauxing some fun things with clockwork traps mainly as cheap tap power, assimilating tiny or harmless to get around low df.

Wardens are good when machine puppeted but are fragile and have to be moved up the field very carefully if not in protect chain.

[underdog6750]

Im planning on including the warden in the hoff chain. A question; can the mechainical attendant cast an assimilated spell ie protect? Do hoff and the attendant loose protect when he assimilates a differnt ability?

Thanks again for all the input though its been a tremendous help. I think i may invest in a performer manaquin blister soon

[Adran]

MY understanding is when he assimilates a (1) spell, he has that spell until the end of turn.

So it can be cast by magical extension as it is a (1) spell on the connected master.

The Protect spell puts an effect upon the model that casts it which has its own end time. So at the end of the turn the assimilated protect spell will go away, but the Protect effect from the cast spell has a different end time so will remain until that end time is reached.

[NeuroFire]

Also another one of my little fads is i dont like using alternate totems. I like using the models specifoc. Call me fluffy or whatever haha.

Just to be clear, though, the Mobile Toolkit is a Hoffman totem. His name is on it and everything. It just happens to be a totem he shares with Ramos, who is basically his mentor in the fluff.

Watchers are great in any crew. I've never regretted taking one. They aren't there for damage output, obviously, but they're one of the best objective grabbers in the game, and looking at cards before you have to flip them is always a good thing.

To the folks talking about the Protect chain, can you explain that a bit? I've seen it come up before, and was unsure about how practical it sounded. Is the idea to spread the damage throughout the crew, or is it to redirect a lot of it to the Guardian? Does it not make positioning a nightmare?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Ultimately, the idea of the Protect chain to to keep your ride up and running. A lot of the time, you're not going to end up with the Guardian as your final step in the chain, because he's slowpants. Yes, he gets a 6" push... at the end of the turn.

Since there's so much pulling along, the setup works best between Hoffman, his ride, and a mobile toolkit. There are able to stay within that critical 3" without having to play positioning chess.

Where I differ is where I put Mobile Toolkit. If he's not in the middle of a Peacekeeper-Hoffman robotchain, he's criminally easy to bump off.

[NeuroFire]

Where I differ is where I put Mobile Toolkit. If he's not in the middle of a Peacekeeper-Hoffman robotchain, he's criminally easy to bump off.

That was one of the questions I sort of had about it. The Toolkit would not make a good damage-soaker at all, and Protecting a Toolkit that is Protecting a Peacekeeper/Rider just means that Hoffman (or the Guardian, if he's in range for it) is soaking wounds off two models, which seems bad. Protecting the Toolkit certainly doesn't seem like a bad idea, since it's a good little healer, but I don't know about one model getting the brunt of wounds put on several models. I suppose I should give it a try to see how it works in real-game setting, though.

Semi-related question: Maintain Machines means the Toolkit is ignoring that whole Easy to Wound thing, right?

And, on the slowpants Guardian, should he be getting the Reactivate for the first couple turns so he can keep up, or is that better spent elsewhere?

[EnternalVoid]

I know that some favor having the Mobile Toolkit at the end of the chain or if they don't think the Guardian will keep up they will just have it be Peacekeeper, Hoffman, Toolkit. That way everyone that is part of the chain can be together and there is no worrying about another part keeping up or having to have it keep up *it can still be part of the chain just out of reach save for those times it gets close*.

The idea we were discussing when we were looking at it from different angles was this. Hoffman is always there with his ride unless something happens, something that should be avoided. Often his ride is important to Hoffman, enough he does not want it dead. Hoffman needs his models and damage output very often if he is with a peacekeeper and such. The idea was to split the damage as you saw necessary between the peacekeeper and Hoffman, possible the toolkit, to try avoid losing any models. But that time where Lilith goes charging in and cheats in a Red Joker, you can pass that whole thing to the Toolkit, blow it up, and take the biggest threat to your chain *high damage model with a RJ* out of equation for a turn.

Our discussion also revolved around when to snap the Toolkit to Hoffman with its Handy Talent. Against most threats Hoffman/Peacekeeper are fine, it is only when you are concerned about that big hitter threat coming in that having it next to Hoffman might be necessary. Or it wanting to activate and heal something. We figured it the threat was lower *IE minions and ones unlikely to do 8+ damage in a single hit* then you would be alright having the the Toolkit staying back to the end of an enemy model's activation, in which case it can snap to Hoffman with Handy and use Welded Together for a healing flip on what needs it. If you heal the peacekeeper then Hoffman can also get one free point of healing.

Once you do blow up the Toolkit to stop a big hit, out of necessity, or because they went after it, Hoffman now has a Scrap counter for either Combat Mechanic or his scrap explosion. It can also snap back to place right before Hoffman activates so you can Companion chain them or so Hoffman can get the extra +1CA from it being there too.

[NeuroFire]

The idea was to split the damage as you saw necessary between the peacekeeper and Hoffman, possible the toolkit, to try avoid losing any models. But that time where Lilith goes charging in and cheats in a Red Joker, you can pass that whole thing to the Toolkit, blow it up, and take the biggest threat to your chain *high damage model with a RJ* out of equation for a turn.

That does sound like a good plan. However, unless I misunderstand the rules, Protect only allows a model to take wounds to its capacity; e.g. if the Guardian's chosen model (let's say Santiago) took twelve damage, the Guardian could take a maximum of nine of those wounds before it was taken out and the remaining wounds would be applied to Santiago. It might be worth clarifying, because if a model can soak wounds beyond its capacity, that is indeed useful against things like the RJ.

So, I was looking at Rising Powers yesterday because a couple people here mentioned that the Mannequin was really worth getting for Hoffman. I didn't see anything there that would make me want to pay eight stones for a Performer just so I could get a Mannequin. Did something change between book and card to make it worthwhile? (Like, for example, did they lose the rule saying they can only Link with Showgirls) Or am I just missing something?