paradox Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm a casual Malifaux player. I play only Guild, and I have the original 3 Guild boxes + a few odds and ends. Mainly Book 1 stuff. It's been awhile since I have last played, and I am far and away a Justice fan. I've dabbled a bit in Ortega's, and maybe used Sonnia once or twice (though I want to play her more). I recently picked up Storm of Shadows and I am interested in McCabe. I have some Guild Hounds still in the blister that I need to assemble, and I like the sculpts. I can't say that I'm super attuned to how things are supposed to fit together. I miss alot of tricks in just reading the rules, probably because I play infrequently. However, can anyone help me understand how McCabe's box and Hounds might work together? Maybe a basic tutorial on his tricks and tactics? I'd much appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 McCabe has a couple of playstyles that he can utilize, but his synergy with the hounds is that he can have them lock down a target and then fire into that melee with abandon, since his netgun doesn't affect Guild Hounds when you take his totem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Assuming I'm running McCabe as Guild*, does Luna's Leader of the Pack count towards Guild Hounds' Guild Kennels for receiving that one additional soulstone for every two Guild Hounds hired? *Although, on dual factions rules, hiring him as either, he still counts as both, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 does Luna's Leader of the Pack count towards Guild Hounds' Guild Kennels for receiving that one additional soulstone for every two Guild Hounds hired? Yes it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 *grin* Nice. Didn't seem to be showing up on the Crew Creator, so I just put in her, one hound, and high point models to make the math easier...It does, indeed, work on there, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Yes it does. I'm not sure that's right. I'll have to check my cards and book in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I'm not sure that's right. I'll have to check my cards and book in the morning. Sure, might be good to get an official ruling on it too. I've spoken with Ratty about it offboards, and it does indeed work in the Crew Builder, but seeing it here will make a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 *Although, on dual factions rules, hiring him as either, he still counts as both, so... On the specific wording, guild kennels doesn't work for 10T crews. While McCabe is both 10T and guild, the crew is not, and it says "Guild crews receive...". Had me excited there for a second since it would be make the hound much more enticing for a 10T McCabe crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroFire Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Assuming I'm running McCabe as Guild*, does Luna's Leader of the Pack count towards Guild Hounds' Guild Kennels for receiving that one additional soulstone for every two Guild Hounds hired? Yes it does. I'm not sure that's right. I'll have to check my cards and book in the morning. Leader of the Pack says Luna counts as a Guild Hound for the purpose of Talents and Spells. Guild Kennels is a Talent and is not listed as an exception, so she counts for the purpose of Guild Kennels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Leader of the Pack says Luna counts as a Guild Hound for the purpose of Talents and Spells. Guild Kennels is a Talent and is not listed as an exception, so she counts for the purpose of Guild Kennels. That's what had me wondering in the first place. Makes me think of her as less of just a master specific totem, and more of a decent low stone model. Luna essentially costing 2ss if there is one more Hound seems good enough. Take enough Hounds (5) and she's essentially a free totem. I'd consider running that many, just to have the potential for more activations on some turns, and a huge alpha strike chain on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Played a game last night with McCabe, and I have to say, that netgun is some serious board control. Locked down Ryle, PeaceKeeper, and Hoffman with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 However, can anyone help me understand how McCabe's box and Hounds might work together? Maybe a basic tutorial on his tricks and tactics? As for just McCabe - he's the king of Slow. Slow is actually an extremely powerful effect to hand out. It limits the options immensely and since it sticks around until the next activation, it's just huge. No more Flurry or stuff like that. No more charges(!). Imagine a melee beatstick with Melee Expert. With some care, Slow takes away his uses almost completely. Netgun is crazy stuff. Take the horse healing and the armor to get the most out of it. Other than that, you can kit out McCabe to be a bit of beast in melee. With Paired Sabre he is very formidable and with Armor +2 he can tank extremely well. All in all, he is an extremely versatile Master with a lot going for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Played a game last night with McCabe, and I have to say, that netgun is some serious board control. Locked down Ryle, PeaceKeeper, and Hoffman with it. Yeah, the Net Gun's Not-A-Blast-Marker gets around Dampening. Having faced this same situation though (minus Ryle), I'm guessing he's a newer Hoffman player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Take the horse healing and the armor to get the most out of it. Other than that, you can kit out McCabe to be a bit of beast in melee. With Paired Sabre he is very formidable and with Armor +2 he can tank extremely well. All in all, he is an extremely versatile Master with a lot going for him. Those are the choices I went with. Odd how the Strange Metal Shirt and his Bearskin Armor extend to the horse. I'd expect it to look more like a Knight's horse, than lawman's, even a corrupt one. My list was all heavy hitters: McCabe, Sidir, Mr. Graves, Kang & Ototo. Ototo traded with a Hunter & a Warden, but died from their scrap being detonated. Kang was also in most of those pulses, so hung on by only 1Wd before healing up the next turn. I'd considered running Yamaziko in there, but McCabe certainly burned through too many stones for a second soulstone user to have been viable. So I was glad I held off on hiring her. Mr. Graves and Ototo didn't quite seem to pull their weight, so Toshiro or Yin will likely take those slots once I have them (or feel like proxying them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaberible Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 towing a ten thunder archer behind with keep up, keeping it out of LOS with McCabes horse and then using the archers ability to shoot through McCabe seems to work quite well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadilon Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) I need to get a few more games with McCabe under my belt to see how this works, but from the cards there is a synergy with McCabe and Guild Hounds. Luna grants all friendly Guild hounds in the game immunity from McCabe's Netgun. Companion McCabe and the hounds. Move Luna to within 10" of an enemy or two. Magical Extension Braying of the Hounds to reduce WP and DF by 2. Charge a couple of dogs in and make some bite attacks. McCabe activates and shoots one of the dogs with the netgun. Cheat down the Df so it hits. The marker is placed, giving slow if they fail a Df->13 (with -2Df). Follow up with one or two casts of "Stunner" to change slow to Paralyzed. Like I said, I want to see it work a couple of times. With the -2 Df it actually might be better just to target an enemy model instead of a hound with the Net Gun in order to get the damage on top of the slow, as well, with the chance of a paralyze in the bargain. ---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 AM ---------- Ah! (I'll just have a conversation with myself here). The advantage to the hound is that it'll let you force the simple duel for slow on the enemy models in the event you have a low hand. You're almost guaranteed to hit a dog if you have some low cards. You can then save the high cards (if you have them) for Stunner. ---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 AM ---------- Also, with Sidir, if he is positioned correctly, he can shoot into the melee. If he happens to shoot one of the dogs, he can cheat to miss or, with the :rams trigger, can do a minimum 2dmg to the dog and then trigger punch through to immediately make another attack on the (presumed) enemy model on the other side of the dog. Add in a Warden for even more slow goodness and targets for Stunner. Edited February 12, 2013 by Cadilon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Sounds like theres some strong potential there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skies Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 If you just want to use McCabe and his box the best way to think of it all is as one big tar pit. Firstly McCabe himself will go around handing out slow to most things with his net gun and if he gets stuck in combat using rundown to push out will net a few DF duels and being a push means no disengaging strikes too. Other than that he's an opportunistic piece that can last a long time. Most people say not to dismount him though I find if you need to tie your opponents crew up and they're close together dismounting with everyone in 3" boosts his defence and will cause disengaging strikes. Luna, most often used to move up and then use braying of the hounds to lower your foes DF and WP by 2 in time for McCabe to go net-gun crazy. Higher damage arc but slightly slower than the normal guild hound. Sidir, I've tried to make him work with the rest of the crew but honestly he either spends his whole time running after them to keep up or slowing everyone else down. Much better with Lady J or Sonnia. Saying that it's best to use him to lock an area down. High powered gun and ripost will allow him to scare most minions away. McCabe can use Keep up to help him move or if you take blinding flash he can use that too. Wastrels, Awesomeness. You have to take the cast off artifacts with them but they can be used to move around quickly and the cast offs can be customised to the scenario. Other than that don't expect them to be your main damage dealers. Guild hounds with McCabe, as mentioned they become immune to the effects of the net gun if taken with Luna. This also means if you randomise onto a dog the shot will fizzle and the AP will be wasted (Just to bear in mind) It does mean though you can lock down something big with them to hold it in place then netgun it (Being height 1 has it's advantage vs a height 3 model) Hope this helps give you some idea's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Don't underestimate Mccabe's -2 def -2wp spell. For guild with a plethora of high combat total models the minus two to a stat can really help out pour out damage with the increased accuracy of your high combat total attacks. Save any 7+ tome card in your hand for a big turn (usually turn two or three) and play it + ss and you prety much guarentee non ss using models are hit with a great almost cryx like debuff when guild basically have a khador like damage dealing focus dox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadilon Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Guild hounds with McCabe, as mentioned they become immune to the effects of the net gun if taken with Luna. This also means if you randomise onto a dog the shot will fizzle and the AP will be wasted (Just to bear in mind) I don't totally agree that the shot will fizzle and that it would be a wasted AP. Its true that the direct damage and effects of the shot won't be applied to the model. But in my opinion there will still be a 50mm marker placed and those models that are touched by it would have to do the Df->13 dual or receive slow, despite the Guild Hound being the original target. 1. McCabe's Hound: This model and friendly Guild Hounds in play ignore any damage and effects caused by McCabe's Net Gun Weapon. 2. Net Gun: Dg 1+Slow/2+Slow/2+Paralysed. If target is hit by this Weapon, before resolving damage place a 50mm round marker touching target. All other models touched by the [syc] must win a Df->13 Dual or receive Slow. So, despite being immune to its effects, a Guild Hound is still a Legal Target of the Net Gun. RM pg14. After a successful Net Gun strike on the Guild Hound, a marker is placed and all those models touched must win the simple dual or receive slow. Then under the 'Apply Duel Results' of the Strike Attack Sequence, effects and damage from the dual are placed on the Guild Hound. RM pg43. The Guild Hound then ignores these with the McCabe's Hound ability. I would also argue that the 50mm marker is an effect of the Net Gun and thus other Guild Hounds hit by this marker ignore the simple dual for slow as well. Edited February 13, 2013 by Cadilon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaberible Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I agree with cadilon, I do however think that if sidir best chance of being useful is shooting your own target to get punch through then he has serious issues Has anyone found a use for him, he did kill rogue necro & sybelle in my last game but only due to 2 red jokers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skies Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 And there we have the benefit of the rule. Was trying to figure out why it was there and needed someone to point out the wording Damage and effects not just being immune. Under my nose the whole time, so yes while they would not take any damage or be effected by the 50mm marker they could be a target and drop the net on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Looks like a heck of a way to ensnare Lilith or Perdita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paradox Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions. I'll reference this again when I get a chance to pick some of it up and play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Looks like a heck of a way to ensnare Lilith or Perdita. Wouldn't efect dita she is immune to influence and the spell is a wp resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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