How do you get the most out of Kaeris as a master.

[kross1]

Thanx for all the great advice guy's! So for the most part don't worry about taking other models that pass around burning tokens, like Iggy, fire gamin, & railworkers & get the Rail Golem (for a beatstick) & some Union Miners (for Objective grabbing).

Kross

[Serigala]

That requires her to be in a crew led by a Master. For the purposes of this thread, as a master leading the crew, she cannot take the Student of Conflict.

True. But some players will play a Master Henchman combination, with the Henchman effectively doing the Masters job, and treating the Master as a minion which boosts the available soulstone pool, and generally adds quite a bit of flexibility to the crew.

You might want to consider adding the MeiFeng boxset to the models you have. As has been said, there is synergy with several of the models, and although it would get expensive (you lose the Henchman bonus, and pay for kaeris) but you also gain Mei's cache. In this case the Student would also cost 4ss as an out of faction hire.

[decker_cky]

True. But some players will play a Master Henchman combination, with the Henchman effectively doing the Masters job, and treating the Master as a minion which boosts the available soulstone pool, and generally adds quite a bit of flexibility to the crew.

You might want to consider adding the MeiFeng boxset to the models you have. As has been said, there is synergy with several of the models, and although it would get expensive (you lose the Henchman bonus, and pay for kaeris) but you also gain Mei's cache. In this case the Student would also cost 4ss as an out of faction hire.

Interesting way of thinking of things. Are Mei Feng and the option to add different models to the list worth 8SS to Kaeris?

[Joel]

Probably. If you look at it as another Kaeris crew but with mei feng as a beatstick, it works out.

Mei feng, 8ss

Kaeris

Soulstone miner

Metal gamin

Emberling

Rail golem

Desperate mercenary

Might be a good starting point. Think dropping the golem and the merc for willie and a gunsmith would give more board control though.

[i_was_like_you]

Interesting way of thinking of things. Are Mei Feng and the option to add different models to the list worth 8SS to Kaeris?

I can't vouch for Mei Feng, yet, but adding Ramos to the list is definitely worth the stones to Kaeris, assuming the Doc is back there making spiders and wub-wubs to help augment the number of overall activations her crew has, so that she can then pounce on the targets she really wants. If Ramos is trying to manifest, though, it might be best to not bring Kaeris along, as he's more likely to be burning through stones.

Adding Mei Feng's crew options, is definitely worth the financial investment. Kang by himself is worth having, and I'm sure Mei Feng is killer. It's just a matter of how much Mei and Kaeris will be fighting over stones.

[marful]

For me, Kaeris's activation is usually used to kill a single model with 7 wounds or fewer remaining. She shoots a model to set it on fire, then casts immolate and cheats/soulstones to an irresistible casting total. I hold a moderate or severe in my hand to cheat damage on that sweet 3/5/6 immolate. I usually also hold onto a 6+ of tomes just in case I'm in a situation where acceleration is a better cast. On turns where there is nothing to shoot, I move strategically and cast a flame wall for protection and a potential Surge trigger. Also, each turn I'm using her 0 to take a wound and draw a card.

I almost always bring a rail golem with her. The rail golem is beaty and surprisingly fast. He's also tanky and a wonderful bomb. Upon death, he makes most things hurt for killing him. Those 3 damage and that burning token put kaeris in a position to nuke most things that may have killed him. As an added benefit, I often place "Kill Protogee" on the the beatstick minion who is most likely to destroy him(usually lelu).

When movement and speed are important, I bring willie and 2+ miners. A double move from Willie and file false claim gets the miners up to 16 inches from where willie started. The miners are mostly used for an objective grab in my games. They are usually dead before they have a chance to attack anyone, but they grab a couple VP on their way out. Also note that willie can give out burning tokens on a trigger.

When holding a zone is important, I bring Kang. He's almost as beaty and survivable as the rail golem, and that is saying a lot. Having both Kang and the rail golem usually gives my opponents fits. He often serves as another anchor for the union miners while buffing their Cb or preventing them from fleeing.

When I need to flat out slaughter things, I'll toss in a Gunsmith or 2. They are also useful if I am expecting a heavily armored crew. Generally Kaeris's melee models are more killy, but fast crews will evade them. Placing ranged pressure on the other force is important in these cases.

Excellent Post! I think you and I play Kaeris very similar =)

(And I think you explained things better than me too...)

[decker_cky]

I can't vouch for Mei Feng, yet, but adding Ramos to the list is definitely worth the stones to Kaeris, assuming the Doc is back there making spiders and wub-wubs to help augment the number of overall activations her crew has, so that she can then pounce on the targets she really wants. If Ramos is trying to manifest, though, it might be best to not bring Kaeris along, as he's more likely to be burning through stones.

Worth noting that Ramos costs 11 stones to Kaeris, since he only has a cache of 2.

[i_was_like_you]

Worth noting that Ramos costs 11 stones to Kaeris, since he only has a cache of 2.

But the free models he brings to the table do kind of offset that price. 3ss per spider, the electrical creation is worth at least 3ss...Even if she doesn't have her fire gamin along, blowing up spiders does do the same trick.

[Metalhed]

I tried out a Kaeris led list the other day.

List was as follows:

Kaeris -- 5 Pool

Kang

Rail Golem

Union Miner

Union Miner

Union Miner

Willie, the Demolitionist

Playing against a Misaki crew along the lines of (mostly I think)

Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders -- 5 Pool

Shang

Ototo

Ten Thunders Brother

Torakage

Torakage

Yamaziko

We were playing Shared Treasure Hunt. My schemes were:

- Sabotage

- Power ritual

I elected these to try out my miners and see how they were at doing it.

The plan was to run 2 miners one side and one on the other with Kaeris nearby(ish).

Then Kang and Rail golem supported by Willie were to take the centre.

His schemes were:

- Bodyguard

- ? I don't remember

I had played miners and rail golem twice before. Kang had been tested once and Willie was up for his first game.

My opponent had a few Misaki games under his belt. We have a good gaming relationship so I wasn't worried about getting pasted.

In the first turn the Misaki crew were right up in the centre with the two torakage were right up front. I won initiative in second turn. Willie moved up and activated his own mines. Dealing 3 wounds on both Torakage. If I hadn't tossed a 3 of tomes in prior turn I could have wiped both out. But I guess that is learning Willie better right.

Misaki and basically her entire team companioned and leaped up in the face of Rail Golem. Took all of Misaki's actions to whipe old Thomas though.

Something killed Willie and he had a massive blowout...4 blast tokens! It hit Misaki and killed both the Torakage. I placed Kang to prevent Misaki running straight into Kaeris' face in next turn.

Turn 3 Misaki killed off Kang, his slow to die knocked a couple wounds off. Kaeris then managed to finish off Misaki and Shang.

The miners were running off to corners during this time. Ottoto and Yamaziko were heading to close off the two running together. At this stage I figured the safe thing would be to block them off with a sacrificial Miner and use the other to head for corner...but I didn't. I didn't know Ottoto and wanted to see if two miners could do a dent to him. Well they can't.

I knew the best move for Kaeris would be to play Sabotage and try prevent the treasure being taken. But used Kaeris to do some direct damage instead. Yamaziko kept Ottoto alive and he clobbered Kaeris about.

Lessons learned:

- The list was great fun to play.

- The miners may not bring a lot of weight to battle, but if they are off running after objectives people need to decide whether to go after them or face the real threats.

- Kaeris is fairly formidable as a "master"

- I didn't feel like I was missing burner counter sources

- Want to get more games in with Rail Golem and Kang

- Willie is GREAT. And a load of fun.

[geistwald]

Don't you think an extra activation or two would have helped in this matchup? In other words, didn't you find the golem and Kang to be a bit too much SS in 2 models?

Side note: you can't choose both faction specific schemes if you have only one leader in your crew.

[The Godlyness]

Side note: you can't choose both faction specific schemes if you have only one leader in your crew.

?!? Abuh? where does it say that? please point me to a Page or reference number. If this is true i have been playing wrong all this time.

[geistwald]

rules manual, page 73: Players may choose one of their chosen Faction's Faction Specific Schemes per leader in their crew.

[i_was_like_you]

Yeah, I'm sure I've played that wrong too. Saw it in the book a week or so ago. Just gotta keep it in mind.

Edited February 25, 2013 by i_was_like_you

[Sarsnick]

Use Kaeris' Resource Management when she is nearby full-health Gunsmiths to do one Wd each so they have access to their ++ attack buff without having to drop Concealed Weapon.

[i_was_like_you]

Yep. Makes 'em quite mean. I've been wanting to run a strike breaker list of Kaeris and a slew of Gunsmiths for awhile. Now that Kang is around, he's earned a spot on that list.

Other than the range, the Gunsmiths seem to outperform Hans in so many ways. If they go to update him, their mechanics are a place to start.

[Metalhed]

Don't you think an extra activation or two would have helped in this matchup? In other words, didn't you find the golem and Kang to be a bit too much SS in 2 models?

Side note: you can't choose both faction specific schemes if you have only one leader in your crew.

Thanks for note on schemes - missed that in past.

The extra activations would probably not have made too much difference in this game, we were equal models and in turn 2 he activated 90% of his crew in one go. But against other masters it would help. I don't get many chances to game so I just wanted to try out some of my newer models.

What lower SS models do you find best for kaeris?

[geistwald]

Not sure, just thinking aloud, sort of. Henchmen-led crews are handicapped in many ways, IMO once they start playing the opponents' game they probably lose. Like lower division soccer clubs vs. first division clubs: sabotage the running game, foul, don't let the other team score at whatever cost, and possibly try to win on penalties. In Kaeris' case, that would mean high body count, simple but reliable mechanics and redundancy. Then you let your burning tokens, explodin constructs, disappearing miners etc. do the job.

Of course I'm more asking than stating all that, because in most cases I play Kaeris with Arcanist masters, so my experience with her SF is seriously limited. But your list with Kang and the golem seemed to be a bit top-heavy to my taste, that's all

Edited February 25, 2013 by geistwald

[Metalhed]

Following your thoughts is kind of why I feel the miners were a boon to list. They headed off and did their own thing forcing the opponent to react.

When I am back with my gaming crew I will run some more experiments.

I previously ran her with Ramos to some level of success. Just found it got really expensive to try fuel both of them.

Will run her with Mei Feng and see how that goes. One day I will pick up marcus too and try her there. But that is another problem.

I am not entirely sold on Kang at the moment, but was enjoying the living theme.

[Adran]

Miners seem to be working really well in a Kaeris list, although I am currently trying to work out the ideal number, and think it possibly depends on the rest of your list.

I am currently heading towards 2 miners and at least 2 other MS&U members, which allows me some selectivity as to where the miners head. Adding a third miner means that I am either discarding half my hand to bury them all, or signposting where they go.

She has a good range of 5-6 ss models using the Large Arachnid, gunsmith, Rail worker and soulstone miner as well as Johan and Willie. I don't have much use for Fire Gamin, so I am likely to pick a couple of this mid range model and then pick something from the top end. (Joss, Kang or the Rail Golem).

I haven't yet had Kang do anything for me to make me think he is worth his points (although the couple of times I've faced him he seemed to do better).

[kross1]

I got a game in w/Kaeris last night & got my first win! It was a 30 ss match against Maccabe, & the game was great! It had a real cinematic feel to it, & was great fun. I am getting a much better feel for the game & didn't have to keep searching the cards for what to do next really helped the flow of the game. I took Kaeris, Gunsmith, LSA, Johan, 2 Union Miners, & Willie, against I am guessing is a pretty standard McCabe (his Box & a Warden) list.

The Union Miners are just what the doctor ordered, & allowed me to put pressure on my opponent from the get go, & were surprisingly hard to kill thanx to there bury mechanic. MS & U provided a lot of synergy & the miners provide a cheap minion that does something besides dies explosively.

Kross

[Joel]

I'm currently considering dropping Kang to replace him with Mei Feng as my second hitter.

I know she's a master, but this is, in mindset and playstyle, a modification of a Kaeris crew.

Current kaeris go-to list is (at 35ss):

Kaeris, 5ss

gunsmith

soulstone miner

Kang

Willie

rail golem

My propsed changes would be:

Kaeris, 6ss

Mei Feng

Willie

rail golem

ronin

metal gamin

the idea here is that the roles in the crew are still balanced.

I have one more soulstone and an improved ability to get more (ronin seppuku over soulstone miner) - more significant models from the outset (with the possibility, although very unlikely, of having a second ronin summoned in)

the ronin takes the role of the gunsmith, to an extent, but also has the mobility of the soulstone miner. The metal gamin keeps the construct count up and helps cover Mei and or the the rail golem. Mei and the rail golem are used as my hitters and Kaeris and Willie control the board and use fire support for the hitters.

looking forward to testing it

[Clevelander]

I've been running a very similar list at 30 SS. Its very fun and effective. The only difference is I swap the ronin for an emberling. It is a supremely killy list that is very suited to slaughter brick style crews. I tend to play very agressively with the RG to dare the other player to destroy it. Then Kaeris comes in to mop up. If they don't, Mei Feng jumps in to kill the models that are engaging the RG . When movement is a bit more key, I swap Mei Feng out for Marcus. At the moment, its my favorite crew to play, but the Mei feng variant is also a blast.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Clevelander

[Joel]

yeah, I can't quite fit the emberling in at 35ss and get the rest of the goodies - but its tempting

your playstyle sounds similar to what I'm doing at the moment with the Kaeris only list - but Mei should be able to do it better.

So loving Kaeris at the moment

[kross1]

As the progenitor of this thread, I thought I would report back & share my experiences. Well I've played everal more games w/Kaeris as my master & a couple more w/her & Mei Fang (I just got Ramos, as well getting ASonnia, Sonnia Box, filled out my Dreamer crew, & a buttload of Arcanists. Mmmmm,...more Ebay!) I've had mixed results so far, but thing are looking much better, my record has improved & my only 2 losses have been w/Mei Fang, while w/my Kaeris led crews have gone 3 wins & 2 draws.

The worst loss was against Yan Lo, I ran Mei Fang & Emberling, w/Kaeris, Student of Conflict, 2 LSA, & a Rail Golem. This game taught me that "Banzai!!!!", may not always be the best course of action,(Resurrecting Izamu, wtf ?!?), & that crew selection is more then, what kicks the most ass! The most satisfying win was against Hoffman. This game I brought Kaeris, Kang, Johan, Willie, & 2 Gunsmiths. He had the deliver a message, assassinate Kaeris, & steal Relic all of which he accomplishes in the 2nd round. Who knew that the Hoff & Peacekeeper could move that freakin' fast? I sure didn't! With perseverance & the right crew I still accomplished all of my goals, tableing him, thereby squecking out a 8-7 win! Despite his Incredible top-decking & me seeing the Black Joker every freaking turn, I found out if you keep your eye on the proverbial ball, you can still pull victory out of almost certain defeat!

The thing I have noticed while playing Kaeris is that I tend to use her more as a distraction & objective grabber then actual offensive piece. While this is great, & has really pushed me to figure out how to pick & run a crew, able to accomplish their combined goals with or without her contributing that much. I am still trying to figure out how to up her damage output, the occasional Immolate & Accelerant, really haven't helped me out as much as her wings & Firewall. Go figure. I think I'm going to try & get a secondary & possibly tertiary source of burning tokens. This will entail adding either Fire Gamin (I have six & am contemplating running all of them, Willie & Soulstone Miner, if I ever run into Viks or Gremlins, which I haven't.), or Railworkers, & I am not to terribly enamored w/either. The last thought would be Iggy, but he is incredibly fragile, & when he starts Inciting his way upfield, he just becomes a big target( especially after a well placed Playing w/Matches). If only his Ranged Expert ranged attack gave Burning Tokens (Huh?), oh well.

The point of these meandering was just to give a heartfelt "Thanx !", to one & all to those that have contributed to this thread, & would appreciate any thoughts on how get some more damage output out of Kaeris.

Lastly I am preparing for Magcon (my first tournament), so I want to remind my fellow Texans to register now, & lets show them support. The more that register greater the prize support, & it's all for a good cause to boot!

Kross

[i_was_like_you]

Glad to hear Kaeris has been performing so well for ya.

More damage, eh? If you're running her with a master, you could try using the Essence of power as her totem. Although, without gaining fast from the Student, she won't be able to get in, burn something, and get out again. Sometimes she can stand her ground. othertimes, like you mentioned, her wings are one of her best assets.