How do you get the most out of Kaeris as a master.

[kross1]

First off I am a complete noob to Maulifaux. I only have 5 games in & my record is 1-4. I am currently playing in the "The Dead of Winter achievement league, & have played against a variety of opponents (twice against McCabe, Zoraida, McMourning, & Von Schill & the Friekorp), & I'm the kind've player that doesn't mind losing, because I learn more from having my ass handed to me. Please trust me when I say, I am really working hard at trying to give my opponents the best game that I can! I have have read all the pullmyfinger articles on the models I have, searched these Forums for all relevant information, read every battle report that features Kaeris, & am willing & able to purchase other models. These are the the current models I have at my disposal:

Kaeris

2 Gunsmiths (love these guys, wish they had more sculpts)

6 Fire Gamin

Iggy

Soulstone Miner

I understand that as Henchmen, she will be at disadvantage vs true masters (kind've why I picked her, played Dark Eldar in 40k). What my problem is how do you put it all together? Is it just my limited model selection as of yet, my rather limited experience, choice of schemes, or most likely a combination of the above?

We usually play at 25-35 SS scrap, with 30 being the most common (Tourney size).

So here are my Questions:

Optimal list w/what I have?

What to get next?

What Schemes are Optimal for Kaeris?

How tight of grouping should I keep her crew?

I know this Is kind've general, but I would appreciate any advice I can get, before I start learning the other 2 masters I own! (Lady J, & the Dreamer).

Kross

[harbinger]

While I know Kaeris can be very capable, Im not familiar enough with her to help with what you need. One advice I might make is perhaps switch to lady J for a bit since you have her. IMO Lady J one the best crews to learn Mali with. Capable yet not complicated. It could allow you to get use to playing off triggers while not getting overwhelmed with "this model has soo many.. which do I use."

You seem to have perfect gaming attitude and genuine desire to get better. Im willing to bet that few wins with Lady J will give you a confidence boost that just might be what you need the most....

[Ozz]

I am not to experienced with Kaeris ether, but models to be concidered for her are Joss & Johan (used together they buff each other) And LSA (Large Steampunk Arachnids) combined with the fire gamin (one, maybe two if you have the points) and gunsmiths should give you a good range of models, but for her you always want to try to make it so you have the maximum Soul stones for her as she likes to eat them.

[Rathnard]

I've played all of two games with Kaeris as a Leader but plenty with her as a henchman, so I'll provide what advice I can.

Kaeris on her own is a pretty solid henchman, but it definitely doesn't hurt to ensure you have some models who can help spread a few burning counters around. She needs them on enemy models to target them with spells so having them there will let you use her AP for actually casting her spells.

Fire Gamin seem like a logical choice for Kaeris, but I've yet to be impressed by them. They do what you'd expect them to do (hand out burning counters, then explode for yet more damage) but I don't think you'd want more than one in a crew.

Joss is very cool, but a bit too fragile and slow for his cost, unfortunately. When it comes down to it, you're better off grabbing something else. Like a Rail Golem.

Johan is a very solid melee model. Just make sure you take some M&SU members to get both his discount and boost to melee. Kang, Rail workers and Union Miners are melee-centric M&SU members who all pair well with him.

If you need some extra shooting, Gunsmiths are your main option, and they're pretty versatile at it. Their many to attack flips make them quite card efficient, but with a minimum damage of one try to avoid having to make flips for damage, either through the custom ammo, or making a single focused attack or charge, rather than two regular attacks.

The Soulstone Miner is a suprisingly resiliant melee model. In any case, I like it and it's siphon essense trigger makes it great

The Large Steampunk Arachnid is reportedly a pain in the arse to assemble, but is otherwise a very good melee unit. Unless you're specifically hoping to take advantage of the M&SU member synergy inherent in some models, this is likely to be your usual mid-cost melee beater.

Union Miners are a model I haven't tried yet, but I think their companion - M&SU members makes them well worth taking for some nice alpha strikes, especially in combination with file false claim (?) to pop up next to any of your other M&SU members.

That's pretty much all the models from books 1-3 IIRC, but Storm of Shadows introduced some phenomenal choices for Kaeris;

Kang is great at shovelling people in the face up close and is pretty hard to kill, but my favorite trick with him is to cast a flame wall behind Kang's target, who he then hits with his shovel and triggers Knockback, pushing the hapless model into the fire markers.

Willie is Solid Gold. Set Charge and Wheelbarrow of doom are both easy ways to deal out lots of damage to models without targetting them or even (with set charge) having to make any kind of duel. He is awesome at area denial and while he's likely to be a prime target for your opponent, the mere presence of him or his set charge markers is enough to severely mess with your opponents plans. In short, an amazing minion and worth every bit of his 9 SS cost. I'm going to have trouble not taking this guy in my future games with Arcanists.

I haven't used the Rail Golem, but by all accounts he's well worth his cost. I should let other people who have had more experience with him comment on using him with Kaeris but in any case, he should definitely be a good choice for Kaeris.

People have had mixed feelings about the Rail worker. As far as melee output and damage resiliance goes, the Large Steampunk Arachnid is a better choice for the same cost. Where the Rail worker shines however, is in it's synergy with other models. Specifically for Kaeris, they're able to pile burning counters onto your opponents models for a 0 action and can see through either the Rail Golems Vent Steam or Kaeris's Flame Wall. As M&SU members they also synergise with Union Miners, Kang and Johan. So what I think it comes down to then, is that if you're planning to take advantage of those synergies, then the Rail Worker is worth considering. But if you aren't, don't bother with them and take another model instead, like the Large Steampunk Arachnid.

[geistwald]

In short, an amazing minion and worth every bit of his 9 SS cost. I'm going to have trouble not taking this guy in my future games with Arcanists.

Willie costs 6SS. I know it's a typo, just saying.

Rathnard, you left out Iggy, so I guess you never tried him with Kaeris, but would you please give an opinion on him?

[kross1]

.Thanx for the advice guys! I am definitely picking up Mei Feng & the Rail Crew, I think they look amazing, & will obviously synergies well w/Kaeris & all the burning counters it can put out.

So let's say I am playing a 35 ss game, my crew (because of limited model) consists of:

Kaeris (3 ss cache)

2 Gunsmiths

Iggy

Soulstone Miner

3 Fire gamin

I have 3 model w/pretty good movement (for Arcanists), 4 models (besides Kaeris) that put out burning counters, & 2 versatile ranged fighters. What schemes & strategies should I look at? Which ones should I avoid? How would you play this list? I realize that it's this really general, especially without knowing the opponents crew, but generalities are ok!

Kross

[Adran]

I'm currently running a Kaeris list for a campaign.

We're playing 25 ss games and I'm finding she has a good range of Minions to select.

I personally don't like Fire Gamin, I've just not had any good outcome from them, I've had much better success with Union Miners for 4 ss. I'm not sure if they are at the best with 2 or 3, but that may also depend on how many members there are in the list.

I like Rail workers but they are a bit jack of all trades master of none. The Large Aracnid is a very good melee model.

Gun smiths are very nice ranged models, but I rarely pick more than 1.

I have used the Soulstone miner, but probably prefer the Arachnid for a melee beast, although I've not gone in for the assasination runs the soulstone miner allows.

Johan is worth the 6 stones when you need somethign big and threatening.

Willie has a lot of options for use in board control and shooting without line of sight. I have enjoyed using him every time. He is also a decently fast minion to bounce miners to on the first turn to get them up the board.

I'm still unimpressed with Kang personally, but I have only tried him once with Kaeris and her more living crew.

Joss is nice but I find him just not as good as the Rail Golem.

Whilst I've not used the Golem with kaeris yet, I've used him with several other masters and have always found him worth his cost. He is pretty mobile when he wants to be, able to cover a lot of the board unexpectedly, and still put out the damage. The ability to charge something 8" away and then still have 2 more attacks after the charge is great.

Kaeris I currently find has 2 flaws. Firstly she isn't a MSand U member, so no companioning with the miners, and no burying and moving them to her.

Secondly I would rather Casting expert was either Nimble or Ranged Expert. I have never cast 3 spells with her, I do almost always want to move and shoot. If she can't get a burning token onto soemoen, her casting expert is often wasted. This might be reduced with the new storm of Shadows, but I'm not sure I can get enough counters out there.

I don't own Iggy, so can't comment on him.

I'm hoping to write up all 6 games in the battle report section, and possibly even film 1 or 2 of them, so keep an eye out. I'm not an expert with her, but if there are things you want me to try, let me know and I will see what I can do.

Unfortunalty you have bought the models I don't like, and don't use as much. I enjoy the movement trick and healing on the union miner, but mainly in a high member list. I'm still gettign to grips with Willie and the rail golem, but they have consistantly impressed so far.

I do feel at times that I'm a slow force, with walk 4 as standard and no extra movement really, but I reckon I have the capability to face most missions with a good chance.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

A lot of good advice so far. Kaeris is a very formidable master but is quite fragile.

Miners help a lot for one they can heal Kaeris by the pulse but can heal that wound back. This works amazing, but miners requiring a living centric crew or m&su crew for them to pop back. With new gaining ground rules they are even more valuable as they can pop back in the right sections just before scoring. File claim is amazing. You can dump then on top of target an alpha strike most anything to death with little fear of retaliation. Again to utilize then you need a living crew so they have someone to pop back to. They are card heavy needing a card each to bury.

That is why I love Kang tough as nail great beat stick and hard to remove. Willie is another great option. I am not a fan of rail workers as miners are far better.

Just want to promote miners a bit as they haven't got much mention in previous posts.

[kross1]

Well, i put my order on for 2 large steampunk arachnids & willie the demolitionist, i'm thinking at 35 ss my list would look like this:

Kaeris 5 ss cache

Gunsmith

Gunsmith

Iggy

Large Steampunk Arachnid

Large Steampunk Arachnid

Willie the Demolitionist

I am still trying to figure out what are my best options with schemes & such, but thanx for all the help

Kross

[CrouchingMoose]

Well, i put my order on for 2 large steampunk arachnids & willie the demolitionist, i'm thinking at 35 ss my list would look like this:

Kaeris 5 ss cache

Gunsmith

Gunsmith

Iggy

Large Steampunk Arachnid

Large Steampunk Arachnid

Willie the Demolitionist

I am still trying to figure out what are my best options with schemes & such, but thanx for all the help

Kross

I would actually consider replacing the 1 of the large steampunk arachnids for a fire gamin. The reason is Kaeris runs on burning counters and needs enemies to have them, while she can easily hand out some between her and iggy, the extras you can get from adding a fire gamin would give you a way of having kaeris pop out of cover and having multiple chances at her better spells which require targets to have burning counters. I just think with the list above your limiting Kaeris potential bit, but certainly not so much so to the point where she will have trouble. Kaeris will just have to do some more leg work.

[Jillyjally]

Is there any way to get a lot more resilience in a Kaeris list? Or is the Large Steampunk Arachnid (Who, holy crap is a bargain at his price. Ain't no Rotten Belle, but man, that's a pretty good piece) the mainstay?

It just kind of seems like Kaeris relies a lot on area denial, rather than being able to hold a point based on a solid brick.

[Rathnard]

Well the Rail Golem is pretty resiliant...

[kross1]

Well I got two more games in, both losses, but my crew still performed (either that or i performed better). As I have not received my reinforcements, i ended playing w/ a bunch of fire gamin, & man do they die quick, almost seems like they are completely overcosted. Hell, that's probably just my inexperience. They just don't seem to stick around long enough to be worth there price.

Any ideas on getting the most out of them?

Hey Rathnard, I thought you said on your podcast that you don't like the Rail Golem??

[Ausplosions]

He likes the rules. But not the model.

Its cause mine is bright blue and squishes small pink models.

[kross1]

Brilliant!

[marful]

2 games into playing with Kaeris' starter box and I began to realize that the fire gamin are an incredibly overcosted and terribad model.

On another note, Willie and one or two Union Miners make excellent objective grabbers. Willie's (0) Set Charge is a HUGE area denial ability. Despite the measly 1 in 4 chance of actually setting it off, people seem to take huge effort to not risk it.

My Kaeris Crews normally look like this:

25 Stone Crew:

Kaeris (5 ss cache)

Gunsmith

Rail Golem

Willie

Union Miner

35 Stone Crew:

Kaeris (5 ss cache)

x2 Gunsmith

Rail Golem

Willie

x2 Union Miner

One important thing to understand about Kaeris is her trigger Turn it Up on Ignite plus the fact that she has 2 Tomes in her CB, getting an auto trigger at least once. Allowing you to light MULTIPLE MODELS on fire for 1 Action. Between this and the Rail Golem, I have yet to need to need a secondary model to hand out burning tokens because of this.

A Kaeris activation for me is usually Move (1 Move Action), Ignite (Ranged Strike Action), Turn it Up Trigger on 2nd Target, Turn it up Trigger on a 3rd Target (sometimes...) and then Casting Expert to either Immolate, Accellerant or Flame Wall (depending on the situation).

I find Kaeris herself very Alpha-Strikey with an unreliable crush power, so I use my Gunsmiths with their +3 Attack Flips and other models to to whittle down my opponents control hand and/or the models wounds and then she swoops in, does her weak damage of 1 via ignite, hands out a burning token and finishes things off with an Immolate.

Meanwhile, Willie is running around and using (0) Set Charge to deny the opponents objective/control where the opponent can move his models while acting as a mobile teleport beacon for the Union Miners to unburry next to so they can grab objectives next turn. This is the key on how I use Willie. I don't take him for his damage potential, I take him for his area denial and speed as well as being a MS&U Member.

If Kaeris is hurt, she can either Resource Management OR Willie can run by her and dump 2 blasts on her via "Wheel Barrow of Doom" healing her a few wounds (and potentially damaging anyone tying her up in melee).

Another trick is to cast Flame Wall behind a target that the Rail Golem is engaged with and then use the Knock Aside [Rail Bash] trigger to knock the enemy model through both of the Flame Wall Markers (taking the hit from both...)

Edited February 5, 2013 by marful

[Rathnard]

He likes the rules. But not the model.

Yep. The rules are ace and I'd love to throw one around in my Mei Feng crew. But the model, at least IMO, is pants. Definitely considering a proxy though.

Its cause mine is bright blue and squishes small pink models.

You wish - I lost my entire crew, yet still beat you in that game.

[Ausplosions]

You wish - I lost my entire crew, yet still beat you in that game.

Oh, the shame!!

[Metalhed]

Kaeris is a henchmen I have be eyeing out to run as a "master". Especially now that there are so many MS&U assets and members to include with her.

In particular I have been thinking about running her with a more living model feel. So thoughts of miners, rail workers, Willie, Kang, Johan etc.

Only managed to get one game in and due to time restrictions it wasn't completed.

If I remember correctly I had Kaeris, 2 x miners, Kang, Johan, Rai Golem and a gunsmith.

Up against a Levi undead crew with lots of belles and molly.

I have been struggling to use my miners effectively and I found Kang to be very slow.

I have never had any luck with the fire gamin. They just don't seem to achieve anything and they have long since been kicked out of my lists.

I find that Kaeris can dish out fire tokens, while any additional sources are great they are not essential.

[Serigala]

Kaeris works well with the Student of Conflict, giving her Fast each turn. She is then able to pop out of cover, fire off an attack or two and then zip back in to cover.

[LupusFerreus]

That requires her to be in a crew led by a Master. For the purposes of this thread, as a master leading the crew, she cannot take the Student of Conflict.

[Clevelander]

For me, Kaeris's activation is usually used to kill a single model with 7 wounds or fewer remaining. She shoots a model to set it on fire, then casts immolate and cheats/soulstones to an irresistible casting total. I hold a moderate or severe in my hand to cheat damage on that sweet 3/5/6 immolate. I usually also hold onto a 6+ of tomes just in case I'm in a situation where acceleration is a better cast. On turns where there is nothing to shoot, I move strategically and cast a flame wall for protection and a potential Surge trigger. Also, each turn I'm using her 0 to take a wound and draw a card.

I almost always bring a rail golem with her. The rail golem is beaty and surprisingly fast. He's also tanky and a wonderful bomb. Upon death, he makes most things hurt for killing him. Those 3 damage and that burning token put kaeris in a position to nuke most things that may have killed him. As an added benefit, I often place "Kill Protogee" on the the beatstick minion who is most likely to destroy him(usually lelu).

When movement and speed are important, I bring willie and 2+ miners. A double move from Willie and file false claim gets the miners up to 16 inches from where willie started. The miners are mostly used for an objective grab in my games. They are usually dead before they have a chance to attack anyone, but they grab a couple VP on their way out. Also note that willie can give out burning tokens on a trigger.

When holding a zone is important, I bring Kang. He's almost as beaty and survivable as the rail golem, and that is saying a lot. Having both Kang and the rail golem usually gives my opponents fits. He often serves as another anchor for the union miners while buffing their Cb or preventing them from fleeing.

When I need to flat out slaughter things, I'll toss in a Gunsmith or 2. They are also useful if I am expecting a heavily armored crew. Generally Kaeris's melee models are more killy, but fast crews will evade them. Placing ranged pressure on the other force is important in these cases.

[Metalhed]

Thanks Clevelander. Some good advice sitting in there and definitely some things to ponder further.

[LupusFerreus]

Nice, good to see reasons for different lists, not one all-comers list.

[Joel]

Currently liking:

Kaeris, 5ss

Kang

Rail golem

Willie

Gunsmith

Soulstone miner

As a crew - got the tools to do pretty much everything.