The Impending Malifaux RPG

[Jonas Albrecht]

So as not to weigh down the other thread with whargrble (and to help it remain about the Kickstarter), I'm making a discussion thread right here in glorious Malifaux Matters.

So, what do you want to see in a Malifaux RPG?

[dgraz]

Cool character progression. Like how you can change as you level up. Specialization.

For example:

Start out as a Guild Guard character.....

Maybe have a few adventures and go up a few levels.....deal with some Rezzers

Be recruited into the Death Marshals.

Learn cool Death Marshal things....like Fear Not Death and how to use a Coffin as a weapon.

Etc.

Or to go along with the new book:

Start as a 10T Brother

Specialize into either Ninja or Archery stuff

become either a Torakage or a 10T Archer.

That kind of thing.

[Rathnard]

I want to be able to sacrifice children to summon Killjoy...

[LordZombie]

I am hoping to see the starting character as just a regular human who maybe starts to gain new spells and powers to draw them to the factions. We all know there are all type of monsters and beast that are in the books and even more not talked about to toss in there for encounters. Maybe have small "encounters" within a larger adventure as in Savage Worlds.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

I want to be able to sacrifice children to summon Killjoy...

We all know that you can't kill children in RPGs. Fallout and Skyrim taught us that.

[DeleteAccount]

My most important aspect is that miniatures are not required to play it. Basically, that imagination abstraction can be applied without having to "house rule". As for the rest, well, fluff fluff and fluff, and also would be interested in getting the deck dynamic added to the RPG to see how that actually works, though I wouldn't scoff at traditional dice either.

Also, very dinamic character progression that resembles the truckload of variety every minion has in Malifaux but at the same time that isn't overwhelming like the feat system of Pathfinder.

[Sliver Chocobo]

I want to play as Neverborn

---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 AM ----------

or make deals with them, like Jacob

[ttsgosadow]

No d20 please! The fluff and game system should be integrated.

[Dumb Luck]

Not having the RPG focus solely playing as Guilders.

[rancor709]

Id love 2 see a strong progression system where it takes you to full on minion status as a stop point. Cards could be cool but you will limit the systems greater appeal in the rpg world.

[nilus]

No d20 please! The fluff and game system should be integrated.

I don't think you have to worry about that anymore. That craze has long died.

Here is what I would like to see

1) A system that allows characters of different power levels to interact. Something like how the Buffy: The Vampire Slayer RPG or some of the 40K RPGs work. You can have one or two really powerful players(like a Master or Henchman) but still have minion level characters that don't feel overshadowed.

2) Easy quick character generation

3) Cards are a must. Wyrd successfully launched the first really popular Card based Minigame, I think they can easily do the same and create a popular RPG that breaks down barriers.

4) Simple mechanics that let story telling happen. As much as I love the idea of using miniatures for my character, I really don't want this to become just Malifaux with an experience and character creation system. I don't want maps and grids

[Dracomax]

I actually don't have a problem with maps and grids, and I think they should be an option, but I also think they should only be an option. Combat mechanics should be different, but derived from the minis game. I think maybe giving ranges for spells in feet, and simplifying things like measurement and combat interactions, while adding in social rules would be a nice start.

What I don't want to see is a game that is malifaux only in name, or a game that is just Malifaux with XP. I would like to see how things evolved, even if the end result has only a few common points.

That being said, I have mixed feelings about the use of levels. Levels tend to make sure everyone has similar power, and that the Gm can more easily bring a decent challenge without overwhelming the group. On the other hand, they tend to be less interesting and more "advancement oriented" than systems which use advancement via skill growth or XP-ability distribution.

What I'd like to see, really, is some mix of the two, where you go up a level, get some flat bonuses(especially if it is a classed system--they should be bonuses to that class) and some points to distribute on abilities(limited only by what abilities you currently have).

---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------

Id love 2 see a strong progression system where it takes you to full on minion status as a stop point. Cards could be cool but you will limit the systems greater appeal in the rpg world.

Personally, I'd like to see progression to the point you'd be considered a master, myself.

[nifoc]

4) Simple mechanics that let story telling happen. As much as I love the idea of using miniatures for my character, I really don't want this to become just Malifaux with an experience and character creation system. I don't want maps and grids

+1

I don't like levelsystems, like the d20 ones, I find them limiting in a way that games that give you XP to spend as you wish, when you wish, does not. If I wanted to get XP from killing "monsters", get "drops" and level up, I'd be playing a computer RPG like Diablo. I understand why this mechanic is used in computer games, I don't understand why it still sees use in pen-and-paper RPGs.

Classes are another thing I don't see the point of, though I have less problems with Archetypes i.e. I don't see the point in prohibiting the swordsman from picking up a spell or two (which, as it happens, also would feel wrong in Malifaux), just that it might be more expensive, XP-wise, to pick something that does not fit his core concept. No, multiclassing is not the same thing.

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------

What I'd like to see, really, is some mix of the two, where you go up a level, get some flat bonuses(especially if it is a classed system--they should be bonuses to that class) and some points to distribute on abilities(limited only by what abilities you currently have).

Have you looked at the XP-mechanic in Anima. Beyond Fantasy? It works similarly to what you describe here, it is also one of the few level-based systems that I find tolerable.

[Kuro]

As far as combat goes, I think there should be an emphasis on miniatures, but it should be entirely optional. (For people who complain about this, it's almost always optional in any game with a few house rules.)

Overall, I hope the game emphasizes heavily on non-combat situations. No doubt, there will be plenty opportunity for fighting, but we already have a skirmish game that does that quite well. I really want to see what it's like to live in Malifaux and have to struggle with the politics and intrigue.

As a bonus, it would be nice to have survival mechanics. Malifaux has strong wild west and frontier themes, and I think for those to be immersive, you have to be wary of rattlesnakes and horses breaking their legs in gopher holes, etc.

[Bunny_Avenger]

I think it would be interesting to get Brilliance.

[Dracomax]

Never heard of it(Anima). Honestly, I have a difficult enough time getting people to try RPGs other than D&D that I tend to not look all that close at games until they are recommended to me. I will definitely have to look into it.

Currently, I'm trying to get a spirit of the Century game going, or failing that, Savage worlds.

SOTC has levels, they are just almost entirely divorced from gameplay-your "level" is based on how many aspects you have, and determines limits on everything else. Really, I find that the only real arguments I have for levels is inter-party balance and ease of GMing when setting up encounters. IN Dresdenfiles implementation of FATE, or 2nd edition D&D, for instance, it is fairly easy to set up a situation the PCs can't win by accident, and that should never happen. (not saying there should never be encounters the PCs can't win, just that it shouldn't be accidental)

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 AM ----------

As far as combat goes, I think there should be an emphasis on miniatures, but it should be entirely optional. (For people who complain about this, it's almost always optional in any game with a few house rules.)

Overall, I hope the game emphasizes heavily on non-combat situations. No doubt, there will be plenty opportunity for fighting, but we already have a skirmish game that does that quite well. I really want to see what it's like to live in Malifaux and have to struggle with the politics and intrigue.

As a bonus, it would be nice to have survival mechanics. Malifaux has strong wild west and frontier themes, and I think for those to be immersive, you have to be wary of rattlesnakes and horses breaking their legs in gopher holes, etc.

I would love to see something like FATE's social conflicts in this. also, I think what you are talking about sounds an awful lot like random encounters. I miss those.

[dgraz]

I could get behind a non-class style, but I think there should be a way to specialize and certain abilities that the only way to get them is to specialize in that 'class'.....like my coffin fighting example above.

I like Draco's idea of going up a level, getting some flat bonus....then having points to spend however you like.

Simple mechanics are definitely good. My favorite rpg was Marvel Super Heroes back in the day. A few simple stats to define you....emphasis on the various powers / abilities.....ONE universal table. You told the GM what you wanted to do and he said "okay, make a strength check of green difficulty, or make an agility check of red difficulty. Story flowed really easily out of that simplicity.

[nifoc]

As far as combat goes, I think there should be an emphasis on miniatures, but it should be entirely optional. (For people who complain about this, it's almost always optional in any game with a few house rules.)

It easier to add grids, than to remove them in any system.

Adding grids:

Step one: Determine what one square/hex represents in feet/yards/meters.

Step two: there is no step two.

Removing grids:

Steps one through ???: Replace every rule that demands detailed knowledge of exact placement, such as Attacks of opportunity, combat advantage etc.

Not saying it's impossible, just saying that it is easier to use a gridless RPG and use the Malifaux setting with that instead of bothering with all the work of replacing grid-based rules.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------

I could get behind a non-class style, but I think there should be a way to specialize and certain abilities that the only way to get them is to specialize in that 'class'.....like my coffin fighting example above.

I see no difficulty including coffin-fighting in a class-less system. Skill/Talent-trees are still functional in such a system.

Let's call them Skills for now, and I'll explain:

First you need to have a contact in the Death Marshalls in order to be able to learn their techniques, the first Skill you need might be a social Skill representing that contact, or it might be the first technique/special move that Death Marshalls learn, from there you continue to advance in the tree, the more XP you sink into it, the more moves you learn. Skills deeper into the tree might cost more, or they cost the same but you need every Skill that comes before it in the tree, both prevents people just picking up the powerful Skills and walking away.

Done, without levels.

[Sliver Chocobo]

I don't see the problem with levels, also that skill tree still levels, just not a liner one

Also you can't make a story happen though the mecanic's of a game, it's down to the GM

[dgraz]

Not having the RPG focus solely playing as Guilders.

This should be easy. Almost all factions are predominantly human. The only ones that would be a problem would be Neverborn and Gremlins....but even those are doable with some creative story-telling.

Only a few things would truly be difficult....I can't see a Mature Nephilim character or a Rotten Belle (for examples).

[nilus]

Also you can't make a story happen though the mecanic's of a game, it's down to the GM

True, but a bad system can bring story telling to a halt.

Also I am not against levels either as long it still allows for choice and diversity.

[nifoc]

Never heard of it(Anima). Honestly, I have a difficult enough time getting people to try RPGs other than D&D that I tend to not look all that close at games until they are recommended to me. I will definitely have to look into it.

I feel for you.

Anima is originally a spanish RPG (and a minis game, and a card game) that is translated and distributed by Fantasy Flight Games, it combines a strong Anime-feel with European mythology. I'll admit to not being a big Anime fan and thus being somewhat hesitant at first, but now I like the game and the setting is growing on me.

Currently, I'm trying to get a spirit of the Century game going, or failing that, Savage worlds.

SOTC has levels, they are just almost entirely divorced from gameplay-your "level" is based on how many aspects you have, and determines limits on everything else. Really, I find that the only real arguments I have for levels is inter-party balance and ease of GMing when setting up encounters. IN Dresdenfiles implementation of FATE, or 2nd edition D&D, for instance, it is fairly easy to set up a situation the PCs can't win by accident, and that should never happen. (not saying there should never be encounters the PCs can't win, just that it shouldn't be accidental).

SOTC does suffer somewhat from being one of the first FATE systems out there. I don't really consider what it and Legends of Anglerre has levels though, as two people with 6 aspects can still be of vastly different "power", unlike D&D there are also other things to be good at than combat.

Ideally, to me, the game should primarily be geared towards playing citizens of Malifaux. If a character has, or develops a relationship or even status within a power group in the city (like the Guild or M&SU) that should be the player's choice, not dictated by the game itself.

---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 PM ----------

I don't see the problem with levels, also that skill tree still levels, just not a liner one

Also you can't make a story happen though the mecanic's of a game, it's down to the GM

You do understand the difference between a level based system and having a skill-tree but free to spend your XP in any way you choose right?

Mechanics don't make a story happen, but some in some RPGs story has to happen IN SPITE of mechanics and in some it is encouraged.

Edited September 7, 2012 by nifoc

[dgraz]

Ideally, to me, the game should primarily be geared towards playing citizens of Malifaux. If a character has, or develops a relationship or even status within a power group in the city (like the Guild or M&SU) that should be the player's choice, not dictated by the game itself.

Agreed.

The only truly useful thing with levels is the math. It's an easy way to determine power levels.

[nifoc]

Agreed.

The only truly useful thing with levels is the math. It's an easy way to determine power levels.

Disagree. Ideally this should be the case, but since no game is perfectly balanced it becomes next to useless. Just look at the Character Optimization boards of any D&D edition, or just the difference between casters and non-casters in previous editions of D&D.

To me, the game is fine if it has a list of skills (and attributes if needed) and what they do, some rules for damage, combat and hazards, social interaction and status, rules for the magic of malifaux, gear, a small(ish) bestiary and costs (XP or money, depending) for the stuff. Some character creation and a gazeteer, that's all you need for a core book really. You don't need to waste space with classes, every character is customizable and you can start playing.

Edited September 7, 2012 by nifoc
added content

[nilus]

Disagree. Ideally this should be the case, but since no game is perfectly balanced it becomes next to useless. Just look at the Character Optimization boards of any D&D edition.

Well personally I am of the strong opinion that RPGs don't need to be balanced really. Thats the GMs job. Things should be in place to make sure all players feel like they are contributing but the vast majority of RPG balancing is all about making sure everyone can kick butt in combat.

I really hope that Malifaux takes its influence from games like Call of Cthulhu and don't emphasize combat as much as investigation and mystery and horror.

[Dracomax]

SO what you are saying is that because a system can be broken by power gamers, it is useless? That would encompass every game ever.

I gauruntee if you look hard enough, you can find a board where people figure damage output/effort, and best skill tracks for any game that is vaguely popular.