Ht 1 or WP 4 new models

[nublet]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone with the new book knows if any of the new models are Ht1 (for Hamelin) or WP 4 (for Zoraida)? Thanks in advance

[TheBurner]

WP 4:

Wastrels (but has Animosity [Zoraida])

Metal Gamin (has Arcanist Asset so can't be hired by Z)

The Depleted

Ototo (but has Animosity [Zoraida])

Friekorps Strongarm Suit

Ht 1:

Clockwork Trap (but is a Construct)

Metal Gamin (also Construct w/ Arcanist Asset)

Burt Jebsen (Gremlin)

Wong (also Gremlin)

Edited August 25, 2012 by TheBurner
Updated restrictions.

[Joel]

Zoraida can hire iron man!?! Awesome! Another purchase coming up.

[Alviaran]

Zoraida can hire iron man!?! Awesome! Another purchase coming up.

Nothing said she couldn't otherwise. He IS a Merc (though an Elite Merc so you are paying 2ss extra to hire him). And sadly Zoradia's ability doesn't let her hire without paying the extra.

Also, she cannot hire the Metal Gamin. They have Arcanist Asset so they can only be hired into crews containing Arcanist masters.

Further, Zoraida cannot hire Wasterls because they ALSO have Animosity [Zoraida]. The only new things she gained in this book are the Neverborn releases (Depleted are already Neverborn so her hiring them isn't unusual) and Mercs (Ama no Zako, Oiran, Freikorps Strongarm Suit, Burt Jebsen, kind of Gracie and Wong).

[Ratty]

Zoraida can hire iron man!?! Awesome! Another purchase coming up.

Well yeah, but she could anyway, he's a mercenary.

[Joel]

True, forgot that

[psychocamel]

The only new things she gained in this book are the Neverborn releases (Depleted are already Neverborn so her hiring them isn't unusual) and Mercs (Ama no Zako, Oiran, Freikorps Strongarm Suit, Burt Jebsen, kind of Gracie and Wong).

That's a little sad =\

[Alviaran]

That's a little sad =\

Yeah, as someone who has come to LOVE Zoraida recently, when I got the book I went flipping looking for WP4 or less models. Coming across the Wasterls and Ototo with an Animosity for her is annoying. I wish they'd just get a WP5 instead. Seems less annoying that way.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Hamelin can hire The Depleted, since they're Insignificant.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Hateful Darkblack

[M_Ruckuss]

I was really disappointed, as a player who has played nought but Zoraida for over a year. However, I can appreciate the balance of the choice to prevent her hiring them- especially Ototo!!!!

[CannonFodder]

To me it proves they are trying to limit growth of the older masters. I can understand it from a business point of view but it id little annoying.

[Rathnard]

Wait, so the Master with by far the largest number of models available to her, didn't get any extra from her Enthrall Talent in Book 4? What's the world coming to?

In all seriousness though, the only additional Living Wp4 models she might have been able to hire via Enthrall were the Wastrels and Ototo, both of whom I can only guess were excluded for balance reasons.

But I think it's a little too early to assume Wyrd is limiting the growth of older Masters. If anything, I'd argue they've done the opposite - just look at the Metal Gamin, Yin, Chiaki and Vanessa for instance - all three are unusually good choices for certain book 1 Masters. Not to mention models like the Strongarm (Von Schill), Oiran (Collette), Tannen (Pandora), and the Gremlins (So'mer/Ophelia).

[xeth1313]

I kinda think the metal gamin are a great example of limiting older masters. Their Arcanist only ability specifically excludes Hoffman and Leveticus, the only non Arcanist masters that would normally be able to hire them. Vanessa can only be hired by the Vics, ever. That is kinda silly, I can't think of a single other model that does that and isn't a totem.

[Rathnard]

Hmm, but you're still only talking about a few models in isolation. Looking at the broader picture, I'm seeing an effort by Wyrd to widen the array of available choices to the older Masters, not restrict.

Hoffman and Leveticus may not have gotten the Metal Gamin, but they did get quite a few other great choices. For instance Hoffman got cheap constructs in the form of the Pathfinder and Clockwork Traps - something I feel he's really going to value. I can't remember whether he also got the Rail Golem but if he did, that's a significant boost too.

Leveticus got every undead model in the Resser Faction, plus whatever Hoffman got. In fact from memory, the only undead/construct he didn't get access to is the metal gamin. That's hardly evidence of Wyrd restricting his access to new models.

Vanessa is Viks only, sure, but if Wyrd is trying to limit the availability of new models to old Masters, why even bother with including Vanessa? If anything, just looking at her rules tells me that not only is Wyrd trying to give older Masters more options but they're also trying to plug percieved weaknesses in those crews, hence why I'm excited about Vanessa for the Viks (= more resiliance) and the Metal Gamin for Raspy.

Finally there's the Oiran, who really didn't need to be a Showgirl to prove useful, let alone a Mercenary. Both were clearly included in her stats to give another option to existing Masters.

I guess my point is that if Wyrd is trying to limit the new models avialable to the older Masters, they're doing a terrible job of it. Instead of a single Arcanist Asset two Animosity: Zoraida's, I would have expected to see ALOT more if that was their actual intent.

[shipwreckgirl]

[...] I can't remember whether he also got the Rail Golem but if he did, that's a significant boost too. [...]

[...]Finally there's the Oiran, who really didn't need to be a Showgirl to prove useful, let alone a Mercenary. Both were clearly included in her stats to give another option to existing Masters.

I guess my point is that if Wyrd is trying to limit the new models avialable to the older Masters, they're doing a terrible job of it. Instead of a single Arcanist Asset two Animosity: Zoraida's, I would have expected to see ALOT more if that was their actual intent.

Hoffman didn't get the Rail Gamin. Smoldering Heart.

I am SUPER excited about the prospect of running Oiran with Sonnia, let alone Colette.

[xeth1313]

I suppose they are not actively trying to restrict older masters, that wasn't exactly what I meant. But they are keeping a pretty tight lid on the hiring bonuses of those masters. In the last two books Hoffman hasn't gotten access to a construct he wouldn't normally be able to hire and there have been two with specific abilities to prevent him hiring them. Hoffman is my favorite master and a chafe a little at the lack of love I perceive him to get. Though I am excited about the clockwork traps. The gamin were so cool... I almost cried about not being able to hire them. . I get balance is an issue and its stuff they tested, but even the fluff says that metal loves Hoffman. "He roared and all the metal in the train yard roared with him."

[decker_cky]

I think they're keeping a tight lid on certain older masters, while expanding others.

Marcus also gained a beast (which he would have had access to regardless, just at +1SS if not a beast).

[Rathnard]

I think they're keeping a tight lid on certain older masters, while expanding others.

That's probably a better way to put it. For instance Dreamer didn't get any new Nightmares, Collodi didn't get any new Dolls and Kirai didn't get any new Spirits (IIRC - although Izamu seems to be a solid option for her). Of course there's nothing stopping Dreamer or Kirai from taking any of their new in-faction models, just that for the most part (again - Izamu) they offer no real synergy. And so unsurprisingly, the Masters that are considered further up the power curve seem to have gotten less that would work well with them.

Marcus also gained a beast (which he would have had access to regardless, just at +1SS if not a beast).

Unfortunately, Marcus still plays the +1SS for hiring Ama No Zako, since he doesn't overide Ama's Merc rule.

[decker_cky]

Unfortunately, Marcus still plays the +1SS for hiring Ama No Zako, since he doesn't overide Ama's Merc rule.

Am I missing a reference? Page 71, it's a general rule that models hired from out of crew cost an extra soulstone, and on both 71 and 72 give allowances for hiring mercenaries, but neither reference specifies that the +1SS always applies to mercenaries. Ratty's crew creator agrees that there's no +1SS cost for Ama.

[Ausplosions]

Vanessa can only be hired by the Vics, ever. That is kinda silly, I can't think of a single other model that does that and isn't a totem.

Rat Catchers.

Seishin

Nix

[Rathnard]

Am I missing a reference? Page 71, it's a general rule that models hired from out of crew cost an extra soulstone, and on both 71 and 72 give allowances for hiring mercenaries, but neither reference specifies that the +1SS always applies to mercenaries. Ratty's crew creator agrees that there's no +1SS cost for Ama.

Hmm, I see. Might have to get Ama No Zako even sooner than I was planning.

[xeth1313]

Those are totally correct, and in that same vein Marionettes and Hollow Waifs. I still think it's silly though.

[Ausplosions]

Those are totally correct, and in that same vein Marionettes and Hollow Waifs. I still think it's silly though.

It's not silly at all.

It's called game balance.

[xeth1313]

I still think it's silly.

[Adran]

Vanessa can only be hired by the Vics, ever. That is kinda silly, I can't think of a single other model that does that and isn't a totem.

Personally, as the Viks have the Unique distinction of being the only master with worse hiring restrictions than a henchman, its good to see some models they can hire that Von Schill can't.

The outcasts are quite a special case in that they are tring to make 4 completely different factions all under the same umbrella, and so to do that they need to add strange restrictions

And Models with out of Faction hiring abilities have to be looked at for many more broken combinations, so I'm happy to see Animosity Zoraida etc crop on models, its much better than to give the model wp5 or remove some of its other abilities to prevent over the top combinations. (I'm sure nurses and Wastrals would not be fun to see together for example...)