Wd/Dg/Wd prevention

[Blueprinces]

Ok this is a slightly complicated question so ill give you an example then ask the question.

So we have keris attacking ophelia (currently sitting on 2 Wd) with her immolate spell.

The spell goes through, flip for Dg and moderate comes up.

So with no modifiers ophelia takes a max of 5 Wds but she flips for Wd prevention and flips a 1 = 1 Wd is prevented.

Now the way i see it is that keris still does 4Wd and kills ophlia.

My fiance sees it another way- opheila only has 2 Wds to take so the max that can be done is 2 Wds so when he does the prevention flip she is left with 1 Wd and survives a little longer.

The question: who is right?

(we have had this problem for a while and would like to finally clear up who is right)

[Carse]

Ophelia takes 4 wounds.

[Cadilon]

Unless there is something I am not remembering about Ophelia (i.e. Hard to Kill), I don't see why she wouldn't take 4 Wds and die.

It makes no sense to me that only having 2 Wds would keep the 4 Dg from killing her, prevention flip or no.

[TranquilitiesEnd]

I have always believed Ophelia would take 4wounds. I don't believe that damage is mitigated to a lower wound count based on the current health of the model.

[Finnegan]

My group has always played it as it reducing the attack's damage rather than the wounds taken.

That said, I'm going to be playing devil's advocate here:

"Models can only suffer as many Wounds as they have remaining, and can never be reduced to negative Wounds." (p 44)

This would mean that Ophelia could only take 2 Wds max.

[using SS to prevent Wds] "Reduce the number of Wd the model suffers by the amount listed on the chart." (p 48)

This states you reduce the Wds suffered, not the damage dealt. So if I look at the rulebook, I'm seeing a completely different interpretation.

I can haz rules marshal?

[GrAYFoX]

Wound prevention is applied prior to Wound application as seen here:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?24756-On-damage-triggers-and-wound-prevention#9

Basically, Ophelia is killed but suffers 2 wounds as far as the game and other relevant abilities are concerned.

If the alternative was true, no master could be killed as long as they had Soulstones and never flipped the BJ; which would make the Slow to Die/SS combo irrelevant

Edited May 6, 2012 by GrAYFoX

[NinjaBreadMen]

I'm the Fiance in queston (I'm not a bad guy honest )

What Finnegan said is what lead me to my assumption; that as a model can only suffer as many wounds as it has remaining, regardless of what damage is being dealt, it drops to the available wounds. That makes it easier to keep models alive with a couple of wounds left, so long as they have a few SS's to use.

Maybe I'm getting confused though, and the whole "can never be reduced to negative wounds" is more for the likes of Seamus or McMourning, who heal the amount of wounds dealt.

I'll wait and see what's decided

[megnc86]

Concur with GrayFox. The total number of wounds dealt is determined before they are applied. So in this example you would have the following:

1: 5 Damage is generated by Keris

2. No damage is mitigated (no armor, etc) so 5 wounds are applied to Ophelia

3. Ophila spends a soulstone to mitigate wounds and only prevents 1

4. The remaining total of 4 is applied, but 2 was enough to kill her.

Keep in mind damage mitigation is just that…mitigation. It isn’t a healing flip. It happens before the wounds are applied to Ophelia, so it affects the total number applied. It doesn’t heal her after damage is dealt.

Saying that a model cannot be reduced to negative wounds is important for SLOW TO DIE actions. In the case of slow to die a model is at zero wounds. Once the damage which reduced the model to zero wounds is resolved the model only needs to heal one wound to stay alive (instead of negative X).

[Keltheos]

Megnc86 has it.

A model can never go into negative wounds.

[dgraz]

4. The remaining total of 4 is applied, but 2 was enough to kill her.

5. She cannot be reduced to less than zero Wd. Therefore only two of the four are applied.

Bold is mine to make it even more clear. Otherwise I completely agree with megnc86.

edit: doh, ninja'd by a big star.

[NinjaBreadMen]

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification everyone

[Blueprinces]

Indeed thank u, though i now have a very grumpy fiance its good to finally have it cleared up with no more arguments.

[CannonFodder]

Ok this is a slightly complicated question so ill give you an example then ask the question.

So we have keris attacking ophelia (currently sitting on 2 Wd) with her immolate spell.

The spell goes through, flip for Dg and moderate comes up.

So with no modifiers ophelia takes a max of 5 Wds but she flips for Wd prevention and flips a 1 = 1 Wd is prevented.

Now the way i see it is that keris still does 4Wd and kills ophlia.

This is correct fro 90% of the time

My fiance sees it another way- opheila only has 2 Wds to take so the max that can be done is 2 Wds so when he does the prevention flip she is left with 1 Wd and survives a little longer.

this is *kinda* what happens if you have a slow to die master making a HEALING flip on her her slow to die action.