rancor709 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 :masksLove the Ideas Calmdown looking forward to ressers getting there due. Your nico list I understand for its lack of Morty, much as I love him rafkin is what he should have been and molly currently offers more utility to a nico specific crew outside of exchanging ap's for corpse counters. Having played a lot of Nico, I can tell you summoning is a secondary ability and a quick way to get cards or lock down models. He's bread and butter is his 10" Riger Para which is not suit dependant and his 10" bubble of +cb and +df. Nico is the reason the majority of resser models have crap avg cb and crap df. Because adding 2 to each of those just by standing within 10 of nico is hard to fully balance. I'd humbly suggest some looks at the drowned. And I would do some board testing with the old Mortimer, as in practice as compared to theory he is more useful in the first 2 turns of the game than he is later game. Overall Rafkin is the clear winner of a support piece for Nico. Morty tends to shine in Brawls where nico can more easily use his ap towards summoning in the early game. But :crowss and :maskss are the life blood of ressers :masks's are used in movement or things like the fog. And :crows for summoning and for the joy of rot which is not an overally useful trigger. HTW2- your absolutely right, the amount of times I cringe at seeing my opponent flip soo many cards at me knowing i'm going to lose something to what amounts to a lucky flip. Htw2 also increases the odds a joker or sever will come up as it reduces the pool of cards the opponent is using quickly dropping the potential pool of bad cards. I tend to see weak weak weak moderate and then i get angry. yes htw1 is one of the strongest abilities in teh game and htw2 is one of the weakest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsallchant Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 will be watching this with interest having just bought a nicodem crew. interesting points about HTW... any ideas on how they would fix it? perhaps as simple as changing the wording to "you MAY make your opponent flip up to X cards..."? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Yeah, I've had Seamus killed almost every other game pretty much because of this. I'm not certain what the solution is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 "you MAY make your opponent flip up to X cards..."? interesting idea, or perhaps only if the Red Joker is the first( or first or second) card, so multiple don't make it more likely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsallchant Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 i think giving people a choice would be great, as it would add a little bit more strategy into how you play the ability. like, if the red jokers already gone you might want to flip as many as possible. if their decks getting low and you know the jokers in there, flip less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The effect is not just a HtW phenomenon, the problem is the Red Joker in Malifaux period is a complete gamechanger. Imho the game is actually better if you totally remove both Jokers from the decks before the game for various reasons. In lieu of that though, at the very least, I dont think that a negative flip should be able to choose the Red Joker. That's the simple way to solve that issue. And, Red Joker at an extra damage flip is also silly; it should do Severe+Weak. But this is a conversation for another thread and that no two people will agree on anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehard Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 But this is a conversation for another thread and that no two people will agree on anyway Yeah, sadly history has shown that while it's relatively easy to get people agree that a certain problem or issue exists, getting said people to agree on a solution to the issue is an entirely different matter. Also, I'll add my "Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with us and starting this thread." As a modeler and painter more than a player I'd been intending to eventually do a Seamus crew. This might actually encourage me to play him. Best of luck with your experiment and thanks again for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The problem is the Red Joker in Malifaux period is a complete gamechanger. I think that's the point of it being there though, same with the Black Joker. The game's very foundation is the concept of "fate" and there's always a chance fate will skew what seems like a given result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hey Pockets, I haven't had much time to keep up with this site, Who won that tournament you were in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I think that's the point of it being there though, same with the Black Joker. The game's very foundation is the concept of "fate" and there's always a chance fate will skew what seems like a given result. Definitely. But a good tournament game should not be so heavily influenced by edge-case luck, and it doesnt exactly add any fun to casual games either. It would be great to see this change somehow at some point. Anyway, back to Rezzers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parzival Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) My pool of models now looks like this: ...don't think I've forgotten anything there. You might take a look at Mortimer, Crooked Men and (only for McM) Guild Autopsies. Mortimer has a superb spell with "Fresh Meat". You said yourself Rezzers are rather slow and that spell helps you there. Sadly it needs a suit. But the option to move your crew up to two times is very nice. You just need a dog as a fix point. Also exume can be quiet nice. With the sacrifice of one canine and the Chihuahua you can make 2 walks with McM and yet have got the BPs to summon rogue up to 16" inch away from your deployment zone... The autopsies are very very situational. But not being able to summon 1 or 2 significant models with McM just because you lack the models to do so is aggravating. I had that situation two times. In a friendly it may be possible to use a proxy. On a tournament that's another story... Crooked Men are just nice for 4SS... Zombie Chihuahua (poor guy, I bet he'd love to see what turn 2 looks like one day) Well, maybe it's MY cards. But if you don't have the :crows to summon there is no point in sacrificing the poor guy early. He has already killed masters for me... €dit: @Cons I think a big contra for those two is a highly dependency on suits... I had games with no :crows on my hand. Other Factions like some suits. But you really need those :crows to summon to make your crew work... Edited January 22, 2012 by Parzival Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Clausewitz Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Definitely. But a good tournament game should not be so heavily influenced by edge-case luck, and it doesnt exactly add any fun to casual games either. It would be great to see this change somehow at some point. Anyway, back to Rezzers I know we should be talking about Rezzers but I really feel the need to comment on the Joker issue because of two games I played this weekend. In my game on Friday I lost solely because I flipper a black joker on a damage flip with lady justice against mcmourning. Then on Saturday I won a game only because I flipper a red joker on a. damage flip with Nino against Nekima. The outcome in both games was the opposite of what it should have been because of a single lucky or unlucky flip. Basically I am saying I sympathize with your point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orboros Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The problem is that issues like the joker mechanic evolve into a subjective moshpit of arguements really fast. On the topic, like what your doing here Calmdown, really interesting read. Sad thing though: while reading through the pages of this thread i was once again confirmed that book 1 minions are lacking something and are generally worse of a choice than book 2 and 3 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Im thrilled that your including Molly. I have been an supporter of hers since her release and yes the main draw with her was the +3 walk and her ability to copy spells. I dont think people have fully grasped how far an additional 3 inches per walk action amounts to. Levi now moves six inches with a free action basically allowing him to cast an extra spell instead of walking and the dead riders mobility gets increased to 27 inches if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthsayer Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Love the look of this thread! I've only got into malifaux recently, and jumped straight in with the 'underpowered' nicodem, but I seem to be getting a pretty good grasp of how to use him. Whilst there are a few of your points I agree with, I simply don't like the 'tournament only' view there seems to be. Although I understand why, as you're a top tourney player A couple of things, I agree to give Mortimer a look, as his uses can be huge (I agree he costs too much, but you often need him with nicodem). Also, why do you consider desperate mercenaries better 2ss models? I can see they have huge benefits, but wont they just get ignored or sacrificed, meaning you don't get a corpse counter? Or is the point to run em in, do damage, and then get them killed or kill them yourself? Again, looking forward to following this thread. P.S. I just wanna say I like the jokers in the deck, adds to the quirkiness of the game, and this was never designed to be a tourney game. I got too much of that from warmachine, and found the gameplay too predictable. If I want rules with no twists, I'll play something like chess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 First game of the new year will be on Tuesday. McMourning vs Leveticus (Cunningstunt/Aidan, 2nd at the UK GT). Going to see if we can play Shared Claim jump or some other shared movement/model placement based scheme (most/all UK tourneys are shared strategies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryder Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Heh...good luck. I'm switching to the 'other' ressers myself...got Molly recently, so just need a few more Night Terrors and Seamus should be up and running fully. I'll be checking here as often as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 First game of the new year will be on Tuesday. McMourning vs Leveticus (Cunningstunt/Aidan, 2nd at the UK GT). Going to see if we can play Shared Claim jump or some other shared movement/model placement based scheme (most/all UK tourneys are shared strategies). Fine by me. Although I don't think I ever said I'll be taking Levi. I said I was taking outcasts... But if you want me to I have no problem taking Levi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Heh...good luck. I'm switching to the 'other' ressers myself OMFG, I never thought I'd see you retire Kirai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 OMFG, I never thought I'd see you retire Kirai I think we all fancy a change right now heh Will be interesting to see how many people stick to the self-imposed "no broken stuff" rules I reckon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Good thing I don't play there. I'm a firm believer in the "If there's a counter, it's not broken" rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Good thing I don't play there. I'm a firm believer in the "If there's a counter, it's not broken" rule. On that basis I guess you don't play Hamelin then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettqpublic Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 So Calmdown, when are you going to give the Guild some love? I'd love to read your thoughts on constructing a good Hoffman or Perdita list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 On that basis I guess you don't play Hamelin then I LOL'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanhead Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I like your thoughts on McM Calmdown although i disagree that the Chihuahua is a turn one sac. I've used him to great affect to create early bodyparts from dogs (through wrack with pain), later he offers an alternative wrack with pain cast which can be down right nasty shutting down (0) actions - albeit card intensive. Re Morty, he has his uses to get early speed bouts for Nico crews. I think Rafkin is better (haven't tried him yet) but Morty can have use outside of the immediate concerns of capturing remote objectives or taking key models down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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