Parzival

Can't understand how people can call the Copycat Killer aweful... Yes, he is way more situatinal than the Grave Spirit but aweful would like Malifaux Child level. Let's not forget CK is a 2 SS model. What do I get for those 2 SS? A chance to switch places with my Master. That is pretty awesome in my book. Even though I don't have the :masks on my hand my opponent always has to be aware of a possible switch... Second the weapon may only have Cb 3 but it's plenty useful. First we have quiet some chances to lower Df (Undress) or give the enemy :-fate for Df Flips (Molly). If you are able to do a focused attack and your opponent has to cheat first it will always cost him a high card to avoid heavy damage... Well it's definetly not a superb model but very playable. @Molly Pre book 4 I would have argued she is worth taking in competitive games. With those new minions I think those 9 SS can be spend much more effective...

A statement of some sort would be appreciated...

Since my card doesn't would you be so kind to tell me what it says exacly?

Nope, it's just Undead and Construct. It is missing in the book as well... I guess it should have decayed but it actually doesn't have any such ability.

Hossa! Realized that Dust Storm is a undead construct that in contrast to all other undead construct there is an ability missing which states which counters it is droping after dying. Or the ability decayed is missing... Or am I missing something? Because atm I suppose it would drop 2 coprse and 2 scrap counters...

You are getting confused. Morale Duels are just a very small part of willpower duels. Mostly Terrifying tests, harmless test and some special spells/actions that specifically state, that they are morale duels. As a spirit you are just immune to those few morale duels. Most spells which work with willpower will still affect you. You would only be immune to all those spells if you are "Immune to Influence". As far as i can recall now, no spirit has immune to influence at the moment.

Maybe you could explain your second sheme... Is hat a houserule? Steal relict?

I have started with the Viks and my reasons why they are just average are those: 1. As you stated they are rather slow. You got for some strategies only the Viks who are quiet fast due to sisters in spirit can do. Except that you got von Schill and Hamelin (and the Student) who can give an extra move here and there. But those two come with 9SS each (plus 6-8 SS Cache you need) that leaves a pretty small crew. I played a crew Viks, von Schill, Hamelin, Student and Librarian once at 35SS for speed purpose already. It went well so far but it's quiet something to play Master, Totem and only 3 "minions" (von Schill is a henchman I know). Because of that there are strategies like deliver the message you need mistakes from your opponent to achieve them since he will outactivate you most likely everytime and so you can't even hope for the initiative. On the other hand, there are strategies where that bar brawling bunch of misfits shine (like supply wagon and every strategy that is fixed on a certain point on the board). 2. No immunities AND no way of canceling effects on your models. Playing against Hamelin or Master who can deal paralyse is no fun at all. Hamelin makes your minions insignificant and you can't do ANYTHING against it. He turns even your Masters insignificant. I think that is the biggest contra for this crew. There are masters it is very, very hard to play against. Even Nicodem with his paralyse or Seamus with Undead hypnosis are nasty. Also as already pointed out in this thread you really got to do every test. Right, you can always hire von Schill but a lot of tests aren't morale duels. 3. Small crew. You will get outactivated by really every crew. Sometimes it's not that bad. But certain players will know how to use that. Maybe some will argue with Desp Mercs now but I think they are not as good for Viktorias as they are for other crews. It's really necessary to play them very aggressive and see them killed quickly because I for one don't like to spend my Cache for minions when playing Viks or von Schill. If there would be an option to pay 3 SS when hiring them I would take 4 of them though. They still are a solid choice but as Hamelin they are a bit weaker in a Merc crew than they are for other crews... As a result the Viks strength is highly depending on what strategies are played and against which master they are played. Deliever the message against Zoraida? Try to get 4 VPs for shemes and do your best sabotaging his/her strategy... I would not even try to deliever the message if I don't think my opponent is retarded. Just out of curiosity: What makes the ten thunder brothers so good? Can't see them in a competitive crew list...

@Twisted Metal As I have stated in my post I had just counted MINIONS. With those two henchmen and 5 possible Totems that's more... On the other hand I admit I haven't counted the Waifs cause I don't hire them and I have counted the spiders as one option. But I will not comment on this topic any further. @Molly Molly can't copy Entropic Transformation and Necrotic Unmaking since they reffer to a model by name. Still, she has the best debuff spell in the game. Pretty powerful the double negative flip if you ask me... Also a self sacrificing Totem that can kill any minion instantly in return is great.

Maybe you should count the others before you make such a statement... The faction with the smallest minionpool is the guild. So I will just show it with them: 12 Minions Book 1 8 Minions Book 2 6 Minions Book 3 20 Mercs 46 (47 for Sonnia [Fire Gamins] and about 50 for Hoffman) As I said before quantitative... Many of those 22 Mercs aren't even worth considering. But the Guild has the smallest minionpool (not including Outcasts). Neverborn got 10 minions from book 3 (effigies) for example and Zoraida has a pool of about 70 minions... Other factions got a few more minions.

Nope, it's because of all those Mercs. Quantitatively speaking he has a little less than other masters, but qualitstively it's a whole other story. Even it's a pain he has no access to Bishop, Hans, Freikorpsmann and co. *wink* €dit: Magicpocket is right. Those effects of Depraved tactics got all other names. So they can stack. The name of the effect is not Depraved Tactics but Svere Spine, Mutilate and Groin Strike.

You could convert the hunter into a Warden right away... Can't see any reason to hire a hunter. *wink*

Well, if you need minions for objective grabbing. The most obvious choices would be Watcher and Necropunks. Both significant and cheap. Also fast. While those necropunks need a suit to be fast Watcher are always fast and have some nice tricks to offer (see above). Also I prefer minions that drop scrap counters. Both also have slow to die. So if you just double walk them on an objective your opponent gains nothing shooting them down. He would have to take them down in melee to deny the objective (the Watcher is also immune to all lure things since he is ItI). But you also got some quick minions in the higher SS area. All those riders for example... Due Watcher and MC Rider have also other qualities than being fast and quiet cheap for what you get and drop scrap counters the basis for an objective grabbing crew would be 2 Watcher and MC Rider for me. If you prefer undead models for whatever reason you can switch Necropunks for those Watchers. I don't have fix lists yet. Leveticus has not as much minions to his disposal as any other non Outcast master but his minion pool is very good. To have playtest all good options needs a while...

I would drop both Desp Mercs and the Student and take one Ronin and the "minimum" Cache of 6 with me... The Student is too expensive to just give some minions a fast now and then. The Ronin is a good minion and "another one" should always be a option for the Vics. I have only cast "another one?" twice myself. But most opponents are aware that they should bring down the ronin to get the Vics down for sure.

Well, not completely missing but I would go for a second watcher. On the other hand you can delete those night terrors. Sadly they are no option for the old man. One thing I am not clear myself about are Steampunk Arachnid Swarms/Steampunk Arachnids. As a Swarm they can get a paralyze auto trigger with "blessings of desolation" and "latch on" should be great with "caustic aura". I haven't been able to try this out myself though. But in theory this should work just fine. Also I personally am a great fan of the peacekeeper. Never felt "experimental automaton" to be a big burden. If you activate him early you can live with a -2Df... "Faulty Circuit" on the other hand is nasty. But you only have 4 1s in your deck... But that's me and I know there are people who disagree. But paired Cb6 and weak damage 4 are awesome!

In our area we use nearly the same house rule for about half a year or so. Except we use the diagonal measurement for both ways up and down... No problems so far and it just feals right. We had situations on some boards with high buildings which had made it nearly impossible for not flying crews to fetch flying models. Surely it's a buff for all flying and floating things in malifaux. But as far as I can tell even with this house rule they still got plenty of advantage due to their flying/floating ability.

She is no auto include that's for sure. I tend to field 1-2 Belles. With those it's quiet possible to lure Alice into rapid fire position. So, 8SS for a good shooter, a second model able to summon SPAs and you are able to draw 2 further cards to improve your hand cards. Also Burn Out CAN be quiet a match winner... I would not field her without the belles though. If you don't have any SPAs around to consume, yes... That depends on how to tend to play. If you like to play broken stuff (Miner+Lazarus) that's definitely nasty and broken. If you field him alone he's good. But other minions you have access to are good as well... Since I don't like to play broken stuff I field him on a regular base alone. But he is no auto include of mine... It usually is a question if I have the 8SS for a rider or only 6 SS for the Miner... Belles... My most popular minions for Levi. If you are not luring enemies into Levi's range, push him or others (e.g. Alice) into position... Watcher! Significant, fast and able to look into the future... Combined with Waifs there are some nice things possible... If you have a high :tomes or :crows on your hand all you need is to look up the next two cards and make sure that the suit missing for doing Desolation with a Waif is the second card that is flipped using a Soulstone. You have to outactivate your opponent (or be sure he doesn't target you with anything) for this, but 2x Walk (+ lures ) and (0) Desolation with a Waif is quiet nice and is always a surprise for your opponent... MOst aren't even aware of the fact that Waif can do (0) spells since they don't use magical extention but empty being. Even though Watcher are very useful. Flying next to a target in cover to make it more vulnerable to unnatural wasting or some other range attack (Alice rapid fire ). 3SS you can't ask for more...

True, that's something Wyrd could list in their list of clarifications in the rules section of on their malifaux.com site... But according to this http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26575&highlight=leveticus+totem they are right...

You might take a look at Mortimer, Crooked Men and (only for McM) Guild Autopsies. Mortimer has a superb spell with "Fresh Meat". You said yourself Rezzers are rather slow and that spell helps you there. Sadly it needs a suit. But the option to move your crew up to two times is very nice. You just need a dog as a fix point. Also exume can be quiet nice. With the sacrifice of one canine and the Chihuahua you can make 2 walks with McM and yet have got the BPs to summon rogue up to 16" inch away from your deployment zone... The autopsies are very very situational. But not being able to summon 1 or 2 significant models with McM just because you lack the models to do so is aggravating. I had that situation two times. In a friendly it may be possible to use a proxy. On a tournament that's another story... Crooked Men are just nice for 4SS... Well, maybe it's MY cards. But if you don't have the :crows to summon there is no point in sacrificing the poor guy early. He has already killed masters for me... €dit: @Cons I think a big contra for those two is a highly dependency on suits... I had games with no :crows on my hand. Other Factions like some suits. But you really need those :crows to summon to make your crew work...

I am afraid I have to disagree... As reference: http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13460&highlight=Organ+Donor And that`s how I play it since it states "damage" and not "wounds" inflicted... He ignores armor anyway...

I was checking some option Lazarus has (which are quiet a few for a Leveticus player) and came to a funny question. At first I was looking if it would be possible to assimilate "slow to die" and "use soulstone". That seems not possible but what about "slow to die" and the SS Miners "tunneling". Tunneling is -after reactivate- the second ability I would assimilate since that allows him to collect quiet some stuff. My question is now, if Lazarus has assimilated slow to die and tunneling. What happens, if he is killed and as a slow to die action he decides to use tunneling? Buried with 0 Wds left? There are some options how to play it, I don't think any of them is backed in the RM... a) 0 Wds=dead. Buried or not... Which would lead to an interesting question: Does he leave Counters? Well buried Ok, but the moment he joins the game again he is dead for sure! Being killed is an effect that last over the End Closing Phase since he was buried. Still leaves the option to place those counters where you want... But really interesting would be: c) Exactly when does he die? The moment he returns? When he activates? When something hits him? d) He can't be reduced to 0 Wds anymore! He is immortal! ^^ Well, not that absurd. Since he really can't be reduced to 0 Wds anymore... And the slow to die Actions comes AFTER the model is killed... The common sense would suggest but I can't really back this up... This situation is quiet an exeption of an exeption. The combination of Leveticus' mighty range of models and a quiet powerful ability of one of his minions...

Little push on this one. I am a bit hesitant to play it like this only because there is nothing saying otherwise. I would like something that says it is right to do so... If not there are some nasty combos with five different avatars possible...

I just said it so you play it right next time... The sheme is quiet ok against some masters who use more totems (Colette or Soomer for example) or if someone plays master+henchman. It is not the best choice against von Schill since he most likely doesn't use any totem. So it most likely ends up becoming a more difficult assassionate sheme...

Quiet interessting thread which shows how new this system is and obviously how different this game is played... Some observations from my point: Marcus: Well, he isn't a top master that's for sure. But in my opinion he is quiet playable since book 2... Soomer Teeth: Same here. Well played with 4 Skeeters and a pigapult he can be quiet dangerous for many crews... Being able to outactivate everyone thanks to larva, taking the oponents hand cards away and then being able to shoot with the pigapult while the oponent cannot cheat anymore isn`t THAT bad... On the other hand I am quiet surprised on the opinions about Leveticus. Maybe we play him wrong, but he would be my first nomination for tier 1... So my list would be more like this: Tier 1: Leveticus, The Dreamer, Hamelin Tier 2: Colette, Kirai, Hoffman, Pandora Tier 3: Mc'Mourning, Zoraida, Perdita, Lilith Tier 4: The Victorias, Nicodem, Seamus, Ramos, Lady Justice, Sonia Criid, Rasputina , Som'er Teeth Jones, Marcus Tier 3 and 4 are quiet balanced but I have the feeling those Masters in Tier 3 are an egde better than those in Tier 4. Tier 2 Master are very good. But the other masters have still chances if you hit the right strategies... Tier 1 Master are no fun to play against. Even with the right strategies its more likely you play for a draw than beating those three...

Not sure if I am reading it right. But since von Schill survived I am not sure you played McM`s sheme right... "That one is a keeper" says those 5 body parts has to come from enemy master/henchman/totem... So basicly, you would have to hit von Schill actually five times if you haven't killed him... And a general note: It would be nice to state both crews at the beginning.